Yzerman is Telling You His Philosophy if You Listen

[Fynn]

Less points=tangible progress? Umkay. It's disingenuous to pretend like making the playoffs is sacrificing future long term success. You can do both. Making improvements and evaluating talent doesn't have to involve giving up 1st round picks or ASP. But as was pointed out, so what if you give up a mid 1st round pick for an established NHLer? You can have all the young talent in the world, but if you don't add the right complimentary pieces, it means nothing. You can tell Yzerman was trained by Ken Holland.

 

[datsyukfan]

Less points=tangible progress? Umkay. It's disingenuous to pretend like making the playoffs is sacrificing future long term success. You can do both. Making improvements and evaluating talent doesn't have to involve giving up 1st round picks or ASP. But as was pointed out, so what if you give up a mid 1st round pick for an established NHLer? You can have all the young talent in the world, but if you don't add the right complimentary pieces, it means nothing. You can tell Yzerman was trained by Ken Holland.

I agree like stop hoarding picks. Even at the draft if there is a really good established NHL’er either on D or at F who is available and we are picking say 8-12. I think we should have 0 problems moving that pick. We need some elite talent now, not maybe in 5 years

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Yes I would move our first for a good player.

 

[RedWingzz]

He needs to trim the fat and bring in a couple impact players.

Players that absolutely need to go:

Tarasenko
Holl
Petry
Gus

Players that probably need to go:

Chiarot
Berggren
Motte
Smith

They need to add a legit top 6 forward (a guy at least of similar level to Cat)

They need to add a legit top 4D and a legit solid bottom pair guy.

Ideally they get the two at the top of the market (Marner and Chychrun) I’d overpay for both. You have good deals for Larkin, Ray, Seider you can afford to overspend on two high end guys

A lineup that looks like this should be the goal imo:

Marner- Larkin-Raymond
Cat-Kasper-Kane
Soderblom-Copp-Compher
Mazur-Rass-Danielson

Chychrun-Seider
Ed-ASP
Jo-Perbix

It’s only adding 3 guys but 2 are high end and one is a nice solid bottom pair guy that isn’t old. All guys that can help for 5+ years when we are looking to really win

Tarasenko, Holl, Gustafsson and Chiarot are all under contract next season.

Also you failed to mention the goaltending. Right now on paper we have an inconsistent Mrazek, who makes highlight reel saves, and then follows that up with a complete muffin...and a washed up Cam Talbot, who is not a good goalie and couldnt stop a beach ball right now.

I don't care what the team looks like, a Mrazek and Talbot tandem equals a 10 year playoff drought. Period.

 

[datsyukfan]

Tarasenko, Holl, Gustafsson and Chiarot are all under contract next season.

Also you failed to mention the goaltending. Right now on paper we have an inconsistent Mrazek, who makes highlight reel saves, and then follows that up with a complete muffin...and a washed up Cam Talbot, who is not a good goalie and couldnt stop a beach ball right now.

I don't care what the team looks like, a Mrazek and Talbot tandem equals a 10 year playoff drought. Period.

Ya the goaltending sucks as well. I’m not sure why he’s always looking to block Cossa. Would have like to see him some this year so he could hit the ground running next year, but instead we have 3 below average guys now

 

[Winger98]

Okay maybe I should have said mid 20’s but the point still stands that they are legit top 6 players that I would overpay a bit for. Of course I would rather just go get Marner instead

Chalk me up for Marner, too.

I'm more on the fence with wanting to pay $7m+ for 5+ years for a guy like Ehlers or Boeser.

 

[SirloinUB]

Okay maybe I should have said mid 20’s but the point still stands that they are legit top 6 players that I would overpay a bit for. Of course I would rather just go get Marner instead

I’d lover Marner, I don’t know about Ehlers as a legit top 6er though. More of 3rd line pp specialist.

He’s been under 16 minutes per game for 3 years.

Good player but not really used as a legit top 6er

 

[datsyukfan]

Chalk me up for Marner, too.

I'm more on the fence with wanting to pay $7m+ for 5+ years for a guy like Ehlers or Boeser.

What would your thoughts be on moving our 1st for a legit 24-28 year old top 6 F

 

[SirloinUB]

What would your thoughts be on moving our 1st for a legit 24-28 year old top 6 F

I’d absolutely support this move. I’d support adding prospects to make it happen.

I’m a little skeptical of that kind of player ultimately being available this summer.

 

[Redwing66]

Berggren-Compher-Tarasenko
Watson/Shine-Motte-Smith

I still can't imagine a worse bottom six - I'm not sure I really want this group making
any roster decisions if this is where we are after 6-7 years and we are actually trying to win.
It will be interesting seeing how many years this must continue until ownership steps in. Lets tank for another great draft pick we will hesitantly insert into our lineup in a decade.

 

[Winger98]

What would your thoughts be on moving our 1st for a legit 24-28 year old top 6 F

I'm definitely okay moving our 1st for the right guy. My ideal guy would be a guy with some grit. Doesn't have to be a guy who wrecks people all of the time, but we all want guys who go to the net more. I see it every GDT. I think we have the potential to get a better fit through trade, too.

With free agents, I'm more tempted to re-sign Kane and go after Brock Nelson, because I think Nelson can give us similar production now, and not have such a long term attached to it. If we sign any forwards. If we plan on giving spots to Soder, Mazur, and Buchkelnikov...I might be okay walking into next season with those three in our top9 and just seeing how it goes.

Berggren-Compher-Tarasenko
Watson/Shine-Motte-Smith

I still can't imagine a worse bottom six - I'm not sure I really want this group making
any roster decisions if this is where we are after 6-7 years and we are actually trying to win.
It will be interesting seeing how many years this must continue until ownership steps in. Lets tank for another great draft pick we will hesitantly insert into our lineup in a decade.

Our bottom6 there would look a little different if Copp, Soder, and Mazur weren't all hurt. Hell, our entire lineup looks different.

 

[Retire91]

moving the first for a player is a deviation from the strategy he has communicated ad nauseam also given his track record of first round picks why would we want him to give it up. When the team started out with a historically bad roster expect a playoff drought. Doubly so when the GM says each season we are building through the draft. There is no point in making the playoffs just to make it, you want to go there with a team that can do something with it. I can't get behind the whinging about missing playoffs its basically the sports fan equivalent of "are we there yet" Want to trade some draft capitol to ensure some more talent no problem but let's keep our first.

Having such terrible draft lottery luck we are not going to be a team that completes at the top end, we are going to need to be one of those teams where your top 6 may be better but our top 6 can hang in there and our bottom 6 wipes the floor with yours and we have a star goaltender. I think we are on that track. It just takes time.

 

[datsyukfan]

I'm definitely okay moving our 1st for the right guy. My ideal guy would be a guy with some grit. Doesn't have to be a guy who wrecks people all of the time, but we all want guys who go to the net more. I see it every GDT. I think we have the potential to get a better fit through trade, too.

With free agents, I'm more tempted to re-sign Kane and go after Brock Nelson, because I think Nelson can give us similar production now, and not have such a long term attached to it. If we sign any forwards. If we plan on giving spots to Soder, Mazur, and Buchkelnikov...I might be okay walking into next season with those three in our top9 and just seeing how it goes.


Our bottom6 there would look a little different if Copp, Soder, and Mazur weren't all hurt. Hell, our entire lineup looks different.

I’ve brought up Rust from Pitt in the past in terms of a harder nosed guy that can still play. A little older but I think a nice cheaper fit if we can’t get someone that’s top end. Could use a 2nd + a couple good prospects to get him. Could see berggren being of interest to Pitt as well

 

[Winger98]

moving the first for a player is a deviation from the strategy he has communicated ad nauseam also given his track record of first round picks why would we want him to give it up. When the team started out with a historically bad roster expect a playoff drought. Doubly so when the GM says each season we are building through the draft. There is no point in making the playoffs just to make it, you want to go there with a team that can do something with it. I can't get behind the whinging about missing playoffs its basically the sports fan equivalent of "are we there yet" Want to trade some draft capitol to ensure some more talent no problem but let's keep our first.

Having such terrible draft lottery luck we are not going to be a team that completes at the top end, we are going to need to be one of those teams where your top 6 may be better but our top 6 can hang in there and our bottom 6 wipes the floor with yours and we have a star goaltender. I think we are on that track. It just takes time.

Not entirely. Our GM has said that when he does look for significant trades, it's for top half of the lineup guys who fit our window- guys typically younger than 28 and signed. He won't deal 1st rounders for rentals, but for the right long term addition? Yeah, I think that first is in play, and has been in play. But our cost to move it is very high and he hasn't found a partner yet.

 

[Frk It]

I think this summer will make a lot of folks unhappy, though. I agree that Yzerman will be looking to swing big, but realistically it's unlikely to happen.

That is getting into unacceptable territory.

I'm not sure that's a reflection on our scouting, though, or just how we've allocated resources. We haven't dumped a lot of high picks into NA, and without that we're not going to get a lot of players from there.

That’s literally all it is. We don’t need another thread to discuss it.

 

[Run the Jewels]

That is getting into unacceptable territory.

That’s literally all it is. We don’t need another thread to discuss it.

Well then ignore the thread. It's fact based and covers 25 years. If there is one thing Yzerman has done that truly separates him from Ken Holland, it's giving most of his best draft picks to his proven European scouts, not his awful North American scouting team.

 

[Winger98]

That is getting into unacceptable territory.

That’s literally all it is. We don’t need another thread to discuss it.

I don't know. If we're drafting top10 this year, the price to move it should be really high. And the type of move I think we're wanting to see don't happen all that often any way.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInDetroit]

Not entirely. Our GM has said that when he does look for significant trades, it's for top half of the lineup guys who fit our window- guys typically younger than 28 and signed. He won't deal 1st rounders for rentals, but for the right long term addition? Yeah, I think that first is in play, and has been in play. But our cost to move it is very high and he hasn't found a partner yet.

most people around here seem to think that we'll finish the season by going 2 for 13, which should put us firmly in the top 5. seems like a bad pick to move

 

[datsyukfan]

most people around here seem to think that we'll finish the season by going 2 for 13, which should put us firmly in the top 5. seems like a bad pick to move

Well if that’s the case then no you probably don’t move it unless you are getting a stud, but I doubt we finish that bad

 

[lidstromiscool]

Sure, that’s not the worst but it’s far from ideal. St.Louis went on an improbable run that is unlikely to happen again or for a long while. Washington also has one of the best players ever to play hockey on their team. Not something the Wings have.

I’d rather do what Colorado did, rebuild the rebuild, than be anything like Nashville, Minnesota or San Jose. Why wait 10-15 years to rebuild knowing you’re unlikely to win a cup? I mean if that’s your goal of course.

Exactly, rebuilding for this long to be a Nashville/Minnesota level team would be a massive letdown, which is why a number of fans are losing patience. We'd be a lot closer to building a contender if we'd been tanking the past few years instead of trying to be the best team that misses the playoffs. We'd have less dead weight contracts too. And I dont wanna hear about that leading to a losing culture or any of that, we have the 2nd longest playoff drought, we've had a losing culture for years.

 

[datsyukfan]

Exactly, rebuilding for this long to be a Nashville/Minnesota level team would be a massive letdown, which is why a number of fans are losing patience. We'd be a lot closer to building a contender if we'd been tanking the past few years instead of trying to be the best team that misses the playoffs. We'd have less dead weight contracts too. And I dont wanna hear about that leading to a losing culture or any of that, we have the 2nd longest playoff drought, we've had a losing culture for years.

Can’t argue with this

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Exactly, rebuilding for this long to be a Nashville/Minnesota level team would be a massive letdown, which is why a number of fans are losing patience. We'd be a lot closer to building a contender if we'd been tanking the past few years instead of trying to be the best team that misses the playoffs. We'd have less dead weight contracts too. And I dont wanna hear about that leading to a losing culture or any of that, we have the 2nd longest playoff drought, we've had a losing culture for years.

Hindsight is 20/20. We weren't trying to be the best team to miss the playoffs we were trying to make it and failed. We also got screwed in the draft lottery several times. The contracts he signed were all mostly terrible I can't argue that but until we hit on one of our picks beyond the first round ie a Kucherov or a Point barring any huge free agent signing or massive trade what could we have done?

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Well seeing Montreal in the playoffs while they don’t even have demidov yet, seeing the senators making it, and Buffalo potentially about to get another top 2 pick, it’s hard not to be frustrated with yzerman. He simply has not done a good enough job compared to the other teams around us in Montreal and the sens, and I don’t know why people can’t admit that.

 

[datsyukfan]

Well seeing Montreal in the playoffs while they don’t even have demidov yet, seeing the senators making it, and Buffalo potentially about to get another top 2 pick, it’s hard not to be frustrated with yzerman. He simply has not done a good enough job compared to the other teams around us in Montreal and the sens, and I don’t know why people can’t admit that.

I agree on Montreal for sure we should be ahead of them, I will say with the sens is that they basically have all of their top prospects already up and established in the NHL, so I’m not shocked they are ahead of us. Yzerman has simply not been good at building the NHL roster, I cant be mad at his drafting because I believe it has been very good

 

[lidstromiscool]

Hindsight is 20/20. We weren't trying to be the best team to miss the playoffs we were trying to make it and failed. We also got screwed in the draft lottery several times. The contracts he signed were all mostly terrible I can't argue that but until we hit on one of our picks beyond the first round ie a Kucherov or a Point barring any huge free agent signing or massive trade what could we have done?

I agree the lottery has been bad to us. I think most of his FA deals have bene terrible. Chiarot/Compher/Holl/Any goalie/Copp all have been huge overpays and have taken us from bad to mediocre. The only thing those guys have done is take minutes away from young players, take us out of the lottery, and frustrate us fans. Especially the 2023 and 2024 drafts. A top 5 pick in those drafts changes the outlook a lot.