Yzerman End of Season pressconference

[SirloinUB]

Um what? Ras has averaged 35 points? since when? His career high is 33 points and that is the only time he has ever broke 30 points, in 6 seasons.
He may PACE for 35 points over 82 games, but when has he ever played 82 games? He's soft as butter.
The guy just finished his 6th season in the league and has only played 390 games (6 x 82 = 492 possible)
so he has missed 100+ games in six years, so he rarely gets close to putting up those 35 points he might pace for.
He's a .35 PPG player who can easily be replaced.
And he's probably never again going to see the top line usage like he got earlier in his career, so his numbers will probably continue to drop more as he falls further down the lineup year after year.

Kasper only took 1 season to best anything that Ras has accomplished at the NHL level. Ras hasn't improved at all since he entered the league, if anything he has taken a step back as his usage has gone down. I would not expect that to change. Unless he can improve (he can't) it will keep happening.

The 3 seasons prior to this one he put up .42 points per game. He scored 38 goals 89 points in 211 games. That is 14.76 goals and 34.58 points every 82 games. If you include this season, the worst of his career, he is at 49 goals, 110 points in 288 games which is still a 14 goals and 31 points every 82 games.

Not sure how Kasper relates to this conversation? He was drafted higher and is a better player. Who suggested otherwise?

 

[Frk It]

It was a homerun swing. He had traits the Wings were hopeful in progressing. Should we have taken that sort of swing at that time when we desperately needed prospects who would work out? Probably not. Should we have rushed him to the NHL just because of his size? Again, probably not.

I feel we may have failed that guy a bit rushing him up and not sending him back to juniors and then to GR for a couple of years.

I did not view him as a home run swing, personally.

Would love for someone to tell me as a prospect what he did at a plus level. Puck skills? No. Skating? No. Playmaking? No. Shooting ability? No. IQ? No.

So someone would have to tell me what made him a homerun swing aside from being really tall. Only thing I think he might have done at a plus level is protect the puck and operate well behind the net.

 

[SirloinUB]

Well that isn't exactly true. He got credit last two years for becoming a fairly reliable player in most situations, its just that he doesn't excel on anything.

I don't mind having on the team, but I also wouldn't miss him if he got traded for something mid season next year.

I probably come off as a bigger fan than I am because I'm quick to defend him (I do genuinely like him).

He isn't a perfect player, but my core feeling on this is: punting Ras is poor prioritization when trying to upgrade the roster.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

I watched it yesterday and its not worth finding the full video. These guys live in a video game world mindset where they think its a quick fix and all they want is to get to the playoffs to have that on their resume.

Is the video on youtube though??? Couldnt find it on they're packed and 97.1

 

[sepster]

I probably come off as a bigger fan than I am because I'm quick to defend him (I do genuinely like him).

He isn't a perfect player, but my core feeling on this is: punting Ras is poor prioritization when trying to upgrade the roster.

I completely disagree. Yzerman and the coaching staff constantly talk about the need to be tougher and harder to play against. Rasmussen is viewed as a player filling that "physical forward" role and yet he is complete dogshit at it. It is no different than having signed Gustavsson as a PP specialist and him being awful at it (at least under Lalonde, I think he looked significantly better under McLellan).

I'm not looking at points, I'm looking at roles necessary for playoff-successful teams. Draper, Maltby, McCarty, Lapointe, and Kocur were significantly important to the Cup teams in their own way. Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, etc. don't win the Cups they do without those players playing behind them, just as Larkin, Raymond, Debrincat. etc. aren't winning a thing with players like Rasmussen, Motte, etc. behind them.

And, realistically, finding an upgrade for Rasmussen should be significantly easier than finding an upgrade for Larkin.

 

[SirKillalot]

I probably come off as a bigger fan than I am because I'm quick to defend him (I do genuinely like him).

He isn't a perfect player, but my core feeling on this is: punting Ras is poor prioritization when trying to upgrade the roster.

I'm not really against him, I just don't see the intangibles to keep him, unless he has a skillset worth keeping.

I agree that maybe it doesn't make sense to move him to create another hole in the lineup, but also what if whoever you get in can be part of creating a more energetic and impactful line than what Rasmussen is doing. Or as part of a developing line for the future.

Is Rasmussen good enough that we can say he has solidified himself as a long term 3C on this roster where he will be part of a cup chasing team? Idk.

 

[Snuggs]

I did not view him as a home run swing, personally.

Would love for someone to tell me as a prospect what he did at a plus level. Puck skills? No. Skating? No. Playmaking? No. Shooting ability? No. IQ? No.

So someone would have to tell me what made him a homerun swing aside from being really tall. Only thing I think he might have done at a plus level is protect the puck and operate well behind the net.

Point per game player; came back the following year did the samething as team captain, and had a monster Frazen like playoff in the WHL.

There was a lot to like unless you are playing captain hindsight of the moment. Ultimately it seems he was just the "big kid" playing smaller guys his age.

I remember drafting him thinking his floor was Dan Boyle. He's proven to be MUCH softer than anticipated.

 

[norrisnick]

Ras is a perfect example of a player that was doing something well before being drafted/making the jump to the NHL and then not being utilized in that role in the NHL. If you're not going to use the strengths of a player, draft someone else. Berggren is in the same boat. Ditto Johansson pre-McLellan. Picking a player type and then jamming them into a different role is beyond silly.

 

[Frk It]

Point per game player; came back the following year did the same, and had a monster Frazen like playoff in the WHL.

There was a lot to like unless you are playing captain hindsight of the moment. Ultimately it seems he was just the "big kid" playing smaller guys his age.

I remember drafting him thinking his floor was Dan Boyle. He's proven to be MUCH softer than anticipated.

It’s not hindsight, I had him ranked 17 that year.

 

[Snuggs]

It’s not hindsight, I had him ranked 17 that year.

We'll gee cmon then... it's not the biggest reach or unrealistic thing in the world then a 1st rounder rising barely in the top 10? Doesn't this happen a couple picks every year?

A 6'5 18 year point per game player doesn't scream upside? Isn't that guy McQueen this year?

I mean I didn't love or hate it. I don't think he played well this year idk if he was hurt or whatever but this year was easily his worst year as a pro.

 

[norrisnick]

Point per game player; came back the following year did the samething as team captain, and had a monster Frazen like playoff in the WHL.

There was a lot to like unless you are playing captain hindsight of the moment. Ultimately it seems he was just the "big kid" playing smaller guys his age.

I remember drafting him thinking his floor was Dan Boyle. He's proven to be MUCH softer than anticipated.

Wrong Boyle.

 

[Frk It]

We'll gee cmon then... it's not the biggest reach or unrealistic thing in the world then a 1st rounder rising barely in the top 10? Doesn't this happen a couple picks every year?

A 6'5 18 year point per game player doesn't scream upside?

I mean I didn't love or hate it. I don't think he played well this year idk if he was hurt or whatever but this year was easily his worst year as a pro.

No because you can’t just look at stats. You have to look at the players skill set and what projects well. Ramsussen had height and…. height.

It is what it is. I would have taken a bunch of people over him at #9 that year. To be fair he was ranked faily high from a consensus perspective.

I just was pretty adamant he should not have been ranked as high as he was and was pretty unhappy we picked him. Certainly wasn’t the only one that felt that way and he hasn’t really done anything to prove otherwise.

This is part of reason we have a new GM and Director of Scouting.

 

[dj4aces]

Find it funny how fans were expecting miracles from this team in 6 yrs when holland left us larkin Berggren rasmussen zadina. Horrible job in signings and hated tarasenko copp compher contracts day 1 but most fans I recall were overjoyed as if we had signed a star player ... anyways if anyone knows where it’s streamed I’d appreciate it

That's my biggest issue with the segment of the fanbase who're being vocal about how long it's taking to rebuild. Holland left us with a couple mid drafted players and Zadina (remember, he was falling in the draft, and he fell for a reason) when he could've picked Hughes or Bouchard, or even Boqvist. I also don't think we should've picked Ras, but I at least understood it at the time. Today, he's... what, maybe a fourth liner on a playoff team? The 13th forward in Florida or Edmonton? Suzuki and Necas were on the board when we drafted Ras, and were better players I thought.

On the contracts... yeah, they could be better. But he admitted his pro scouting staff is basically learning on the fly, that they're pretty much brand new to this. I get it. I would've hoped they'd be shadowing a veteran pro scout as opposed to what we've seen, but maybe they've also turned a corner and we don't sign a bunch of over-the-hill mid players again this season.

But all in all, the presser didn't give me a reason to not continue to trust the larger plan that Yzerman has.

 

[SirloinUB]

I completely disagree. Yzerman and the coaching staff constantly talk about the need to be tougher and harder to play against. Rasmussen is viewed as a player filling that "physical forward" role and yet he is complete dogshit at it. It is no different than having signed Gustavsson as a PP specialist and him being awful at it (at least under Lalonde, I think he looked significantly better under McLellan).

I'm not looking at points, I'm looking at roles necessary for playoff-successful teams. Draper, Maltby, McCarty, Lapointe, and Kocur were significantly important to the Cup teams in their own way. Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, etc. don't win the Cups they do without those players playing behind them, just as Larkin, Raymond, Debrincat. etc. aren't winning a thing with players like Rasmussen, Motte, etc. behind them.

And, realistically, finding an upgrade for Rasmussen should be significantly easier than finding an upgrade for Larkin.

I mean the league has changed a lot. That's not to say physicality isn't needed but what is defined as physical has changed. Guys like Kocur and McCarty don't really exist anymore.

And again, If you want to be more physical taking out your most physical guy isn't super productive. Sure you could get someone that is more physical and meaner but if you still have guys like Motte, Smith, Berggren, Tarasenko and Compher in your bottom 6 you haven't upgraded your physicality/grit very much.

As an example, you can swap Rasmussen out for Cuylie and improve the physicality in that slot, or you could replace guys like Motte/Berggren with Cuylie and have him and Rasmussen bringing physicality. The first move adds 130 hits to your line up, the second adds 270 hits to your lineup. That's what I mean when I say replacing Rasmussen is poor prioritization. Of course hits aren't the be all and end all but the point is if you want more physicality there is a list of guys that are better to replace than the guy who brings the most physicality. In a ranking of physicality, Ras is always at the top of our lineup. Sure maybe its a low bar but he's still at the top of list. We should be removing the least physical guys, not the most physical guy we have.

Same with offence. If you want to improve the offence you aim to replace a guy like Compher or Berggren not Larkin or Debrincat. If you want to upgrade the defence you replace Holl not Sieder.

 

[Run the Jewels]

That's my biggest issue with the segment of the fanbase who're being vocal about how long it's taking to rebuild. Holland left us with a couple mid drafted players and Zadina (remember, he was falling in the draft, and he fell for a reason) when he could've picked Hughes or Bouchard, or even Boqvist. I also don't think we should've picked Ras, but I at least understood it at the time. Today, he's... what, maybe a fourth liner on a playoff team? The 13th forward in Florida or Edmonton? Suzuki and Necas were on the board when we drafted Ras, and were better players I thought.

Just an FYI, you're dealing with people who were entirely supportive of retool on the fly, even after it was blatantly obvious it was vaporware.

On the contracts... yeah, they could be better. But he admitted his pro scouting staff is basically learning on the fly, that they're pretty much brand new to this. I get it. I would've hoped they'd be shadowing a veteran pro scout as opposed to what we've seen, but maybe they've also turned a corner and we don't sign a bunch of over-the-hill mid players again this season.

Criticism of the pro scouting team is totally legit, the one thing the Ilitch's have is plenty of money so I don't exactly love having a bunch of newbies who are learning on the job. One or maybe two? Sure! But you should be able to use your connections and money to plug and play. With that being said, the proof of their quality will be when they sign a top 4 D and one or two top 6 forwards to long-term deals. I'm not going to get too upset about Copp or Compher given we had no center depth from the Holland era.

But all in all, the presser didn't give me a reason to not continue to trust the larager plan that Yzerman has.

What? You were impressed with only adding a ~40g scorer in DeBrincat, an 80 pt forward in Raymond, one of the top rookies in even strength goal scoring in Kasper, the leading 21 are under even strength goal scorer in Edvinsson? You need to raise your standards!!

 

[sepster]

I mean the league has changed a lot. That's not to say physicality isn't needed but what is defined as physical has changed. Guys like Kocur and McCarty don't really exist anymore.

And again, If you want to be more physical taking out your most physical guy isn't super productive. Sure you could get someone that is more physical and meaner but if you still have guys like Motte, Smith, Berggren, Tarasenko and Compher in your bottom 6 you haven't upgraded your physicality much.

As an example, you can swap Rasmussen out for Cuylie and improve the physicality in that slot, or you could replace a guys like Motte/Berggren with Cuylie and have him and Rasmussen bringing physicality. The first move adds 130 hits to your line up, the second adds 270 hits to your lineup. That's what I mean when I say replacing dumping Rasmussen is poor prioritization. Of course hits aren't the be all and end all but the point is if you want more physicality there is a list of guys that are better to replace than the guy who brings the most physicality. In a ranking of physicality, Ras is always at the top of our lineup. Sure maybe its a low bar but he's still at the top of list. We should be removing from the least physical guys, not the most physical guy we have.

Same with offence. If you want to improve the offence you aim to replace a guy like Compher or Berggren not Larkin or Raymond.

I am unwilling to concede that Rasmussen is physical simply because when he bumps into to players he is credited with hits. Rasmussen provides as much productive physicality as Motte, Smith, Berggren, Tarasenko, and Compher, so swapping out any or all of them for more physical players would improve physicality.

I also disagree that physicality in today's game has changed significantly. Wilson and Bennet, for example, are directly comparable to McCarty and Lapointe, who also are recent Cup champions.

 

[CLK Wolverines]

This team is in need of consistent good goaltending. They haven't had good goaltending since 2009 (he should have won the CS) in Osgood. Until they find this guy it will be Groundhog Day.

 

[SirloinUB]

I am unwilling to concede that Rasmussen is physical simply because when he bumps into to players he is credited with hits. Rasmussen provides as much productive physicality as Motte, Smith, Berggren, Tarasenko, and Compher, so swapping out any or all of them for more physical players would improve physicality.

I also disagree that physicality in today's game has changed significantly. Wilson and Bennet, for example, are directly comparable to McCarty and Lapointe, who also are recent Cup champions.

I think you need to get over what you want Ras to be and accept that the bar goes much, much lower and replacing, say, Berggren instead of Ras helps us maximize the physicality on this team. Now if you can bring in Cuylie, Sherwood and McBain (hypothetically).. okay, ya then it makes sense to ship out Ras.

Bringing in only Cuylie while shipping out Ras is kind of spinning your wheels compared to keeping Ras and replacing Berggen with Cuylie.

As for the changes, back in the day every team had a Wilson/Bennett, today, those guys are unicorns in the league.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I am unwilling to concede that Rasmussen is physical simply because when he bumps into to players he is credited with hits. Rasmussen provides as much productive physicality as Motte, Smith, Berggren, Tarasenko, and Compher, so swapping out any or all of them for more physical players would improve physicality.

I also disagree that physicality in today's game has changed significantly. Wilson and Bennet, for example, are directly comparable to McCarty and Lapointe, who also are recent Cup champions.

No one views Ramsussen as a physical player and anyone citing hits to make the case is being disingenuous. Wilson is much more physical than Ras will ever be.

 

[sepster]

I think you need to get over what you want Ras to be and accept that the bar goes much, much lower and replacing Berggren instead of Ras helps us maximize the physicality on this team.

As for the changes, back in the day every team had a Wilson/Bennett, today, those guys are unicorns in the league.

Or, I could just continue advocating for him to be gone along with all of the other sub-par, useless players on the roster.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

That's my biggest issue with the segment of the fanbase who're being vocal about how long it's taking to rebuild. Holland left us with a couple mid drafted players and Zadina (remember, he was falling in the draft, and he fell for a reason) when he could've picked Hughes or Bouchard, or even Boqvist. I also don't think we should've picked Ras, but I at least understood it at the time. Today, he's... what, maybe a fourth liner on a playoff team? The 13th forward in Florida or Edmonton? Suzuki and Necas were on the board when we drafted Ras, and were better players I thought.

On the contracts... yeah, they could be better. But he admitted his pro scouting staff is basically learning on the fly, that they're pretty much brand new to this. I get it. I would've hoped they'd be shadowing a veteran pro scout as opposed to what we've seen, but maybe they've also turned a corner and we don't sign a bunch of over-the-hill mid players again this season.

But all in all, the presser didn't give me a reason to not continue to trust the larger plan that Yzerman has.

Were the nhl though its inexcusable to have scouts learning on the fly giving you advice to sign holl,copp etc... if those guys are responsible for the horrible ufa signings in a way then they need to learn elsewhere

 

[sepster]

No one views Ramsussen as a physical player and anyone citing hits to make the case is being disingenuous. Wilson is much more physical than Ras will ever be.

There is not a player or team in the league that gameplans for Michael Rasmussen. No one is looking over their shoulder or having to worry about taking a shift against him. I'd be surprised if most players even know who he is.

 

[SirloinUB]

Or, I could just continue advocating for him to be gone along with all of the other sub-par, useless players on the roster.

You could but if you think were going to bring in 3 guys that are more physical and 2 guys that bring more offence you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
I see 4-6 forwards slots that contribute less to our lineup

 

[SirloinUB]

No one views Ramsussen as a physical player and anyone citing hits to make the case is being disingenuous. Wilson is much more physical than Ras will ever be.

Speaking of being disingenuous, who the hell is claiming Ras is more physical than Wilson?

Equally disingenuous is failing to acknowledge that Ras has been the most consistently physical full time Red Wing. Its a fact and again, the bar may be incredibly low but punting the most physical guy is not an effective way to improve total team physicality.

You guys claim "he doesn't hit, he bumps guys" well, 11 other guys don't even bump into someone. Saying "this team isn't physical enough" and then singling out the most physical guy is some ass backwards logic.

 

[SirKillalot]

As an example, you can swap Rasmussen out for Cuylie and improve the physicality in that slot, or you could replace guys like Motte/Berggren with Cuylie and have him and Rasmussen bringing physicality. The first move adds 130 hits to your line up, the second adds 270 hits to your lineup. That's what I mean when I say replacing Rasmussen is poor prioritization. Of course hits aren't the be all and end all but the point is if you want more physicality there is a list of guys that are better to replace than the guy who brings the most physicality. In a ranking of physicality, Ras is always at the top of our lineup. Sure maybe its a low bar but he's still at the top of list. We should be removing the least physical guys, not the most physical guy we have.

I don't care if we have zero hits if the forwards produce points.
The 2008 team besides a few players only hit clouds and fog when they flew by, but they did do the occasional reversed hit to surprise players and were good for the most part at avoiding hits or taking of brunt of hits when getting hit.

When you are not producing points you got to have other qualities. So Rasmussen either got to start producing more points or start making more of an impact in another way, whether that is through hits, being a shut down center, drawing more penalties or another means for the team to be better.

What is stopping Michael Rasmussen to be more like Tom Wilson or Josh Anderson? He was equally good or better in junior, he is bigger than they are. Its mentality. It's not like they are more technically advanced players than him.

But also, just throwing hits to through hits means nothing either, as teams playing against Detroit in 2008 found out.