Yzerman End of Season pressconference

[sepster]

You could but if you think were going to bring in 3 guys that are more physical and 2 guys that bring more offence you're setting yourself up for disappointment.
I see 4-6 forwards slots that contribute less to our lineup

How about a player that can cycle the puck better? A player that doesn't get knocked off the puck by players 25% smaller than they are? Or a player that can receive a pass in stride? Or a player that isn't an offensive black hole? Or a player that doesn't constantly lose his man in the defensive zone? Because those are all deficiencies that Rasmussen has along with being incredibly non-physical.

Rasmussen is grouped in with those other 4-6 forwards you are thinking of because he is as equally ineffective as they are.

 

[dj4aces]

Just an FYI, you're dealing with people who were entirely supportive of retool on the fly, even after it was blatantly obvious it was vaporware.

Criticism of the pro scouting team is totally legit, the one thing the Ilitch's have is plenty of money so I don't exactly love having a bunch of newbies who are learning on the job. One or maybe two? Sure! But you should be able to use your connections and money to plug and play. With that being said, the proof of their quality will be when they sign a top 4 D and one or two top 6 forwards to long-term deals. I'm not going to get too upset about Copp or Compher given we had no center depth from the Holland era.

I think a LOT of people either wasn't paying attention to what we had in the system at the time, or simply didn't care. With Holland's drafting at the time, there was literally no way we were gonna be able to pull an on-the-fly rebuild out of our ass, haha

Pro scouting is absolutely a valid criticism, yes. I questioned what was going on in the scouting department, and to have Stevie candidly admit that it's a bunch of newbies trying to feel their way through was the one takeaway from the presser that left me feeling a negative kinda way. I really hope they brought in (or are bringing in) at least one experienced voice to show them how it's really done. This is the one area I find inexcusable for the Yzerman era in six seasons. I'm fine with how long it's taking, maybe a little antsy about finally getting over the playoff line, but the pro scouting department thus far is a huge L.

 

[SirloinUB]

How about a player that can cycle the puck better? A player that doesn't get knocked off the puck by players 25% smaller than they are? Or a player that can receive a pass in stride? Or a player that isn't an offensive black hole? Or a player that doesn't constantly lose his man in the defensive zone? Because those are all deficiencies that Rasmussen has along with being incredibly non-physical.

You can say similar about several guys who provided less offence and less physicality some of whom are paid more than Ras.

Replacing Motte or Berggren or Compher or Smith or Vlad with Culyie makes this team's total physicality greater than replacing Rasmussen with Cuylie.

Unless you think we are bringing in 5 or 6 new guys there are better ways to improve this team than replacing Rasmussen. Be it offence or physicality I see several bigger fish to fry than Rasmussen.

 

[CLK Wolverines]

I'm listening to the Press Conference and Yzerman will not talk about Walman. There must have been some bad blood there?

 

[norrisnick]

I'm listening to the Press Conference and Yzerman will not talk about Walman. There must have been some bad blood there?

There is a reason a fairly serviceable player was a healthy scratch at the end of last season and then packaged with a 2nd to be traded.

The trade had nothing to do with on ice play (apart from maybe an unwillingness to work hard enough to get back on the ice).

 

[jkutswings]

We'll gee cmon then... it's not the biggest reach or unrealistic thing in the world then a 1st rounder rising barely in the top 10? Doesn't this happen a couple picks every year?

A 6'5 18 year point per game player doesn't scream upside? Isn't that guy McQueen this year?

I mean I didn't love or hate it. I don't think he played well this year idk if he was hurt or whatever but this year was easily his worst year as a pro.

On draft day there were several posters in this forum wanting almost anybody EXCEPT Rasmussen, specifically voicing the concern that he was just taking advantage of smaller players and it would not translate to the NHL.

It's good that he hasn't completely busted out of the league and Detroit can get at least something from him. But it was a bad pick, and several people said so right from the start.

 

[Winger98]

I did not view him as a home run swing, personally.

Would love for someone to tell me as a prospect what he did at a plus level. Puck skills? No. Skating? No. Playmaking? No. Shooting ability? No. IQ? No.

So someone would have to tell me what made him a homerun swing aside from being really tall. Only thing I think he might have done at a plus level is protect the puck and operate well behind the net.

size in and of itself is a plus trait. The guy produced a ton of points, too. He seems to have a lot of intangibles, everyone seems to talk highly of him as a teammate, so it was fair to think that he would keep working on his game (and I'm sure he has, for what it's worth).

They just got it wrong. You've admitted how often we're wrong here versus how often we're right, and Holland wasn't exactly stringing together a lot of hits at that point to have confidence in him.

This might be.
Maybe one should have done both of these things for him to be confident and develop those offensive abilities against lesser opponents. Might have been a missed opportunity.

But, it might also be him and his mentality. To me it seems he plays to much by what if things goes wrong mindset than just having someone telling him try or just do it.

Oh, he definitely could just be what he is and nothing could have changed it.

 

[dj4aces]

I'm listening to the Press Conference and Yzerman will not talk about Walman. There must have been some bad blood there?

I don't think there's bad blood. It's respectful. Plus, no player would sign a deal with Yzerman as a GM ever again if he went around airing dirty laundry. We could debate *why* he was moved, I guess, but I honestly feel like Walman is a nonstory no matter how curious we might be about that situation.

 

[Frk It]

size in and of itself is a plus trait. The guy produced a ton of points, too. He seems to have a lot of intangibles, everyone seems to talk highly of him as a teammate, so it was fair to think that he would keep working on his game (and I'm sure he has, for what it's worth).

They just got it wrong. You've admitted how often we're wrong here versus how often we're right, and Holland wasn't exactly stringing together a lot of hits at that point to have confidence in him.



Oh, he definitely could just be what he is and nothing could have changed it.

Yeah, a bunch of guys I liked more than him that year have also amounted to not too much. We are well past all this at this point.

Still don’t understand how Cody Glass has struggled as much as he has. I thought he looked like a great prospect.

 

[Winger98]

Yeah, a bunch of guys I liked more than him that year have also amounted to not too much. We are well past all this at this point.

Still don’t understand how Cody Glass has struggled as much as he has. I thought he looked like a great prospect.

Same. I wasn't sold on Quinn Hughes at all and the guy is a damn norris contender every year.

 

[SirloinUB]

On draft day there were several posters in this forum wanting almost anybody EXCEPT Rasmussen, specifically voicing the concern that he was just taking advantage of smaller players and it would not translate to the NHL.

It's good that he hasn't completely busted out of the league and Detroit can get at least something from him. But it was a bad pick, and several people said so right from the start.

Even as the (apparent) President of the Michael Rasmussen Fan Club, I absolutely remember several people not wanting him with a top 10 pick. He wasn't my first choice but I was open minded about him as a prospect. While I think casting him as the current whipping boy is unfair I will readily admit he was the wrong choice at 9th overall.

The 2016-2018 drafts really set this rebuild back.

But that Milk was spilled a long time ago and in Rasmussen's case, a sunk cost. As i've said, I think we have 4-5 forwards slots that should be upgraded first.

 

[stillwater]

Whether or not there's agreement on whether Ras should have been drafted at #9, or is effective in any kind of measure at all ... there's seems to be an agreement, if you read between the lines, that Ras is absolutely nothing more than a 4th-liner/penalty killer at this point, and is very unlikely to ever be anything more than that on any team with playoff run expectations.

I think he can be that, and be effective at that ... but he can't be pushed up the lineup any longer.

He is what he is. If they trade him, I wouldn't care at all. But, as has been said many times already ... Ras is just not the biggest problem with this team.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

size in and of itself is a plus trait. The guy produced a ton of points, too. He seems to have a lot of intangibles, everyone seems to talk highly of him as a teammate, so it was fair to think that he would keep working on his game (and I'm sure he has, for what it's worth).

They just got it wrong. You've admitted how often we're wrong here versus how often we're right, and Holland wasn't exactly stringing together a lot of hits at that point to have confidence in him.



Oh, he definitely could just be what he is and nothing could have changed it.

They never developed the net front traits, they never even really tried which is where he got the bulk of his points. He needed to fix his skating but I am not sure he needed to do it without putting on weight.

Rasmussen is the most mismanaged prospect since Brendan Smith in my opinion. There was a player there but we didn’t find it as far as I am concerned and that does happen.

He has developed some solid pro habits to stick around the league. He also will forever be a whipping boy around these parts. If they don’t like him move on from him, I think there are bigger issues, but I am for rolling parts of this roster and I will not complain.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Same. I wasn't sold on Quinn Hughes at all and the guy is a damn norris contender every year.

I tried my best, I was a Hughes hype boy (on all three) the whole way.

I am sucker for skating and tape to tape passing though.

 

[Winger98]

They never developed the net front traits, they never even really tried which is where he got the bulk of his points. He needed to fix his skating but I am not sure he needed to do it without putting on weight.

Rasmussen is the most mismanaged prospect since Brendan Smith in my opinion. There was a player there but we didn’t find it as far as I am concerned and that does happen.

He has developed some solid pro habits to stick around the league. He also will forever be a whipping boy around these parts. If they don’t like him move on from him, I think there are bigger issues, but I am for rolling parts of this roster and I will not complain.

yeah, I think you and I have viewed Ras similarly for awhile. I don't understand why they don't push him to be bigger, I never got why they didn't force feed him net front power play time. I'd have had him riding shotgun on a scoring line long ago just to see if you could force it a bit. Truth be told, depending on how the roster shakes out over the summer, I'd consider stapling him to a scoring line next year.

But maybe he still has some trade value. I kind of expect him to be moved because of that. He might be a wildcard for a deal if someone else really believes they can unlock him as a top6 forward at his contract.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

yeah, I think you and I have viewed Ras similarly for awhile. I don't understand why they don't push him to be bigger, I never got why they didn't force feed him net front power play time. I'd have had him riding shotgun on a scoring line long ago just to see if you could force it a bit. Truth be told, depending on how the roster shakes out over the summer, I'd consider stapling him to a scoring line next year.

But maybe he still has some trade value. I kind of expect him to be moved because of that. He might be a wildcard for a deal if someone else really believes they can unlock him as a top6 forward at his contract.

He is well liked in the room, notice all the core guys named him in the core guys which honestly surprised me a little. Some of the young Griffins guys have noted him for summer work. I think he is a likely trade casualty when they go to shake the room.

I wanted Necas on draft night. But I will admit I was intrigued by Ras as a unicorn player. I thought if we could fix his skating we could have a bigger Anders Lee. We fixed his skating but he never got a lot bigger or more powerful. He is such a serious guy, you know he puts work in. Maybe if he played in a different era somebody would have pulled the Probie on Primeau stuff on him I don’t know.

He hits, he does protect the puck at times. I just think he needed to pack on muscle and play bigger. Kind of what Soderblom is doing on the reboot long road back. Ras just showed a ton more aptitude for in tight plays and slot deflections back to junior. Especially with us being terrible at the beginning I never understood not trying to develop that unique skill set and make him a PP net front guy. But we didn’t do it and he has stayed at 220 since he was 19.

But yeah we have had a similar look on him for a while. I think Yzerman better plug LW on line 1 this offseason. I don’t mind him bumping up with injury or bingo balling on the line shakeup nights, but we need a top 6 forward beyond what we have. I would also give Lombardi and the Karate Kid looks before Ras at this point in the scoring line role.

 

[norrisnick]

Ras needs the Holmstrom boot camp. Ras is better at most things that held Homer back (skating and defensive awareness). If Ras could work on screen/tip timing and maybe soften the touch of his hands a bit he could still become a plus asset in the top 6. Homer didn't sniff more than 12-13min TOI until his 30s. Ras is the same age now as Homer was going into the '98-'99 season.

 

[odin1981]

I think a LOT of people either wasn't paying attention to what we had in the system at the time, or simply didn't care. With Holland's drafting at the time, there was literally no way we were gonna be able to pull an on-the-fly rebuild out of our ass, haha

Pro scouting is absolutely a valid criticism, yes. I questioned what was going on in the scouting department, and to have Stevie candidly admit that it's a bunch of newbies trying to feel their way through was the one takeaway from the presser that left me feeling a negative kinda way. I really hope they brought in (or are bringing in) at least one experienced voice to show them how it's really done. This is the one area I find inexcusable for the Yzerman era in six seasons. I'm fine with how long it's taking, maybe a little antsy about finally getting over the playoff line, but the pro scouting department thus far is a huge L.

Why does the organization have any draw with UFA'S? A rebuilding team not in a tax shelter state is not gonna have a draw on good UFA'S.

For the most part the only thing that the team can draw is guys from Michigan that want to play close to home. Or in addition too the above mentioned we only get interest from players that can't get a contract anywhere else that are questionable if they can even play at the NHL level any longer.

I just got outta work so I will respond to posts earlier in the thread after I get home. But this one was easiest to respond to.

 

[Winger98]

He is well liked in the room, notice all the core guys named him in the core guys which honestly surprised me a little. Some of the young Griffins guys have noted him for summer work. I think he is a likely trade casualty when they go to shake the room.

I wanted Necas on draft night. But I will admit I was intrigued by Ras as a unicorn player. I thought if we could fix his skating we could have a bigger Anders Lee. We fixed his skating but he never got a lot bigger or more powerful. He is such a serious guy, you know he puts work in. Maybe if he played in a different era somebody would have pulled the Probie on Primeau stuff on him I don’t know.

He hits, he does protect the puck at times. I just think he needed to pack on muscle and play bigger. Kind of what Soderblom is doing on the reboot long road back. Ras just showed a ton more aptitude for in tight plays and slot deflections back to junior. Especially with us being terrible at the beginning I never understood not trying to develop that unique skill set and make him a PP net front guy. But we didn’t do it and he has stayed at 220 since he was 19.

But yeah we have had a similar look on him for a while. I think Yzerman better plug LW on line 1 this offseason. I don’t mind him bumping up with injury or bingo balling on the line shakeup nights, but we need a top 6 forward beyond what we have. I would also give Lombardi and the Karate Kid looks before Ras at this point in the scoring line role.

I've been pushing the idea of Danielson in the top6 for awhile. I know people want to see a higher point total in GR, but everything I hear about him says he has a mature game and is ready to jump. I want to see us either go with kids or make a move. I'm fine with either, but not happy with neither.

With the Ras draft, I remember getting on board with Vilardi when he was falling, but understood passing because of the injury issues (which have followed him). For some reason I was hung up on Brannstrom. I remember someone being really big on Thomas, and that would have been a helluva pick with hindsight.

Ras needs the Holmstrom boot camp. Ras is better at most things that held Homer back (skating and defensive awareness). If Ras could work on screen/tip timing and maybe soften the touch of his hands a bit he could still become a plus asset in the top 6. Homer didn't sniff more than 12-13min TOI until his 30s. Ras is the same age now as Homer was going into the '98-'99 season.

The Homer spot was what I had hoped Ras would slide into, yeah.

 

[ElProfessor]

I was furious about his discussion of the pro-scouting department.

It sounds like he’s hired a bunch of first-job in the league kids who are learning on the job and “growing together.” Just his son and all his idiot friends? + “Maltby”.

Can’t hire a veteran proven pro-scout to oversee his kid and his friends “grow together”??

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Ras needs the Holmstrom boot camp. Ras is better at most things that held Homer back (skating and defensive awareness). If Ras could work on screen/tip timing and maybe soften the touch of his hands a bit he could still become a plus asset in the top 6. Homer didn't sniff more than 12-13min TOI until his 30s. Ras is the same age now as Homer was going into the '98-'99 season.

He needs a coach like Bowman to tell him "We gave you the number 27 because that's the year we're cutting you and sending you home."

Maybe that will inspire him to work on his deflections and screening the goalie.

 

[norrisnick]

I was furious about his discussion of the pro-scouting department.

It sounds like he’s hired a bunch of first-job in the league kids who are learning on the job and “growing together.” Just his son and all his idiot friends? + “Maltby”.

Can’t hire a veteran proven pro-scout to oversee his kid and his friends “grow together”??

Yzerman had all daughters.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

Yzerman had all daughters.

probably meant brother

 

[saska sault]

Wonder if Yzerman sees the Cooper rumors and thinks... damn.... should waited longer...

I like McLellan but you know how the old boys clubs work in the NHL and Cooper is on a different level.

 

[dj4aces]

Why does the organization have any draw with UFA'S? A rebuilding team not in a tax shelter state is not gonna have a draw on good UFA'S.

For the most part the only thing that the team can draw is guys from Michigan that want to play close to home. Or in addition too the above mentioned we only get interest from players that can't get a contract anywhere else that are questionable if they can even play at the NHL level any longer.

I just got outta work so I will respond to posts earlier in the thread after I get home. But this one was easiest to respond to.

To be fair, the states that tax consumerism didn't draw UFAs when they sucked, when ownership was terrible and their organizations were in disarray. Really, you're more likely to sell the climate in Florida to a player than you are its income-tax-free status, but also, that didn't really work before either.

Florida and Tampa Bay didn't really attract anyone when they were owned and managed by people who didn't know what they were doing. Both of those teams were sold to better ownership, who proceeded to fill holes in the front office with better people.

Detroit doesn't have this problem. Chris isn't his father, but he's not a moron either. The team isn't run as if it's some sort of tax write-off. So I honestly don't see any major impediments to us signing a top free agent or two. We just have to be willing to pay for them.