Value of: Your Team's best offer for Noah Dobson

[Juxtaposer]

Sharks 2025 1st, top 3 protected. Goes to 2026 1st fully unprotected if not.
Bords
Igor Cherynshov
Bystedt

This would be horrific for the Sharks. Just f***ing horrible. Bystedt and Chernyshov are not throw-ins and we cannot trade our 1st this year or an unprotected 1st next year.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Figured. What about Reinbacher and Flames/Panthers 1st? I would say the Islanders are looking for someone who can play now vs Reinbacher who is 2 years away ish?

Probably not trading Dobson for a dude who is missing a year of development.

 

[Celly4Celebrini]

This would be horrific for the Sharks. Just f***ing horrible. Bystedt and Chernyshov are not throw-ins and we cannot trade our 1st this year or an unprotected 1st next year.

Dmen take longer to flourish and grow. If the sharks want to maximize the Celebrini/Smith window, moves need to be made to where they have elite dmen to play alongside them.

If the top 3 protection hits, Schaefer-Dickinson-Dobson is an elite top 3 dmen. Dobson is a 24 year old right handed dmen. They dont come cheap.

Id argue Bystedt tops out as a 3C. You dont let a 3C prevent you from acquiring a Dobson level guy.

Cherny was never meant to be a throw in. Hes an asset used to acquire a top level dman.

The top 3 protection provides protection to grab Schaefer if the opportunity comes up. If not oh well, i thought about top 5 in case Misa/McQueen are there.

At some point moves need to be made to avoid becoming Buffalo where you can have all the top line fwd talent in the world, but without a competent core, it amounts to little.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Dmen take longer to flourish and grow. If the sharks want to maximize the Celebrini/Smith window, moves need to be made to where they have elite dmen to play alongside them.

If the top 3 protection hits, Schaefer-Dickinson-Dobson is an elite top 3 dmen. Dobson is a 24 year old right handed dmen. They dont come cheap.

Id argue Bystedt tops out as a 3C. You dont let a 3C prevent you from acquiring a Dobson level guy.

Cherny was never meant to be a throw in. Hes an asset used to acquire a top level dman.

The top 3 protection provides protection to grab Schaefer if the opportunity comes up. If not oh well, i thought about top 5 in case Misa/McQueen are there.

At some point moves need to be made to avoid becoming Buffalo where you can have all the top line fwd talent in the world, but without a competent core, it amounts to little.

We can't make a big move like trading a top-5 pick for a player like Dobson, who is about to get a huge contract, until our core is settled. Right now only Celebrini is a sure thing. If no one else hits "core" level, then we simply have no chance of ever contending.

 

[Sharksfan66]

We can't make a big move like trading a top-5 pick for a player like Dobson, who is about to get a huge contract, until our core is settled. Right now only Celebrini is a sure thing. If no one else hits "core" level, then we simply have no chance of ever contending.

If nobody else hits core level, do you think a Martone changes our chances of contending that much?

Maybe I'm more comfortable with risk than most, but if Dobson is available, I think you make the trade assuming at least 2-3 of the kids become core pieces. If they don't, then this rebuild seems doomed either way IMO.

 

[Juxtaposer]

If nobody else hits core level, do you think a Martone changes our chances of contending that much?

Maybe I'm more comfortable with risk than most, but if Dobson is available, I think you make the trade assuming at least 2-3 of the kids become core pieces. If they don't, then this rebuild seems doomed either way IMO.

Imagine if the Oilers had traded the Draisaitl or McDavid picks because they wanted to ride or die with the Hall/RNH/Eberle core. Or if the Avs had traded the Makar pick because their Mackinnon/Landeskog/Rantanen core wasn't getting it done. There was five years between the Devils picking Hischier and Nemec in the top-3, and now they look like a team with an incredibly stacked future.

Are you suggesting that if Smith/Dickinson/etc. don't become core pieces, we should just scrap the rebuild altogether and give up? Rebuilds take time and patience. Some high end prospect is going to bust because that's the odds. That doesn't mean you give up on the whole rebuild, it means you keep going.

I do think that our rebuild is two core pieces away, which is why I expect a top-3 pick this year and a top-10 pick next year before we make any blockbuster trades to add expensive pieces.

 

[Hodge]

If nobody else hits core level, do you think a Martone changes our chances of contending that much?

No but the point is we'd be better off continuing to tank for high picks than making a big win now trade.

 

[Sharksfan66]

Imagine if the Oilers had traded the Draisaitl or McDavid picks because they wanted to ride or die with the Hall/RNH/Eberle core. Or if the Avs had traded the Makar pick because their Mackinnon/Landeskog/Rantanen core wasn't getting it done. There was five years between the Devils picking Hischier and Nemec in the top-3, and now they look like a team with an incredibly stacked future.

Are you suggesting that if Smith/Dickinson/etc. don't become core pieces, we should just scrap the rebuild altogether and give up? Rebuilds take time and patience. Some high end prospect is going to bust because that's the odds. That doesn't mean you give up on the whole rebuild, it means you keep going.

I do think that our rebuild is two core pieces away, which is why I expect a top-3 pick this year and a top-10 pick next year before we make any blockbuster trades to add expensive pieces.

I haven't been that dialed into draft talk this year but there's not anyone of McDavid's or Makar's ilk in the 2025 draft, is there? I assumed that was why folks were suggesting trading the 25 pick now instead of the 26 pick in the summer. I agree it would be dumb to risk losing McKenna.

And yes, I would suggest that if we can't get at least 2 core pieces out of Askarov, Smith, Eklund, Dickinson, Musty, etc, we need to restart the rebuild. I get that rebuilds take time, but if you have that many blue chip prospects fail in a row, I think you need to hit the reset button and wipe the slate clean. As you pointed out, Edmonton did this with success. And I would much rather be an Edmonton than a Buffalo.

You say we're not 2 core pieces away. How many core pieces do you think a contender needs? Because Celebrini + Dobson + 2 more give you 4. What are you looking for 5? More than 5?

No but the point is we'd be better off continuing to tank for high picks than making a big win now trade.

This sounds like an internal memo from the Buffalo Sabers. No thanks.

 

[Sharksfan66]

Idea that just struck me...if the Sharks somehow land the Hagens pick, would NYI fans take Smith for Dobson straight up?

 

[Juxtaposer]

I haven't been that dialed into draft talk this year but there's not anyone of McDavid's or Makar's ilk in the 2025 draft, is there? I assumed that was why folks were suggesting trading the 25 pick now instead of the 26 pick in the summer. I agree it would be dumb to risk losing McKenna.

And yes, I would suggest that if we can't get at least 2 core pieces out of Askarov, Smith, Eklund, Dickinson, Musty, etc, we need to restart the rebuild. I get that rebuilds take time, but if you have that many blue chip prospects fail in a row, I think you need to hit the reset button and wipe the slate clean. As you pointed out, Edmonton did this with success. And I would much rather be an Edmonton than a Buffalo.

You say we're not 2 core pieces away. How many core pieces do you think a contender needs? Because Celebrini + Dobson + 2 more give you 4. What are you looking for 5? More than 5?


This sounds like an internal memo from the Buffalo Sabers. No thanks.

Makar went 4th overall, no one knew how good he was going to be. And Draisaitl went 3rd overall, no one knew how good he was going to be. Just because the draft isn't billed as strong doesn't mean someone won't hit the developmental jackpot.

You said that if we don't get two core players in addition to Celebrini, then we should just scrap the rebuild, which is kinda my point. You don't trade for Dobson until you're sure you don't have to scrap the rebuild.

I think you need four core pieces to win a Cup, unless one of them is literally a Mackinnon/McDavid/Makar level player (Celebrini is not that). Point/Kucherov/Hedman/Vasilevsky. Eichel/Stone/Pietrangelo/Marchessault. Mackinnon/Makar/Rantanen. Barkov/Tkachuk/Reinhart/Forsling.

I would like to have a core like Celebrini/Schaefer/McKenna/Askarov. Hopefully Smith gets to that level and we don't have to stress about 2026, but he's still a question mark at this point. I don't see Dobson at that level either, which is the crux of the problem--I don't think you're going to win a Cup if Noah Dobson is your best D.

As far as Buffalo goes, that's just a huge yawn right now. 18 months into our rebuild and we're two points behind them in the standings. None of the young players in our org are difference makers right now other than Eklund and 18 year old child Celebrini in his 6th ever NHL game. Grier has completely rebuilt a solid interim defense while we wait for the kids and gave up almost no assets to do it. I'm really not that worried.

 

[Grinner]

I haven't been that dialed into draft talk this year but there's not anyone of McDavid's or Makar's ilk in the 2025 draft, is there? I assumed that was why folks were suggesting trading the 25 pick now instead of the 26 pick in the summer. I agree it would be dumb to risk losing McKenna.

And yes, I would suggest that if we can't get at least 2 core pieces out of Askarov, Smith, Eklund, Dickinson, Musty, etc, we need to restart the rebuild. I get that rebuilds take time, but if you have that many blue chip prospects fail in a row, I think you need to hit the reset button and wipe the slate clean. As you pointed out, Edmonton did this with success. And I would much rather be an Edmonton than a Buffalo.

You say we're not 2 core pieces away. How many core pieces do you think a contender needs? Because Celebrini + Dobson + 2 more give you 4. What are you looking for 5? More than 5?


This sounds like an internal memo from the Buffalo Sabers. No thanks.

The Sabres are a very young team
And their captain has a lot to be desired

 

[Sharksfan66]

Makar went 4th overall, no one knew how good he was going to be. And Draisaitl went 3rd overall, no one knew how good he was going to be. Just because the draft isn't billed as strong doesn't mean someone won't hit the developmental jackpot.

You said that if we don't get two core players in addition to Celebrini, then we should just scrap the rebuild, which is kinda my point. You don't trade for Dobson until you're sure you don't have to scrap the rebuild.

I think you need four core pieces to win a Cup, unless one of them is literally a Mackinnon/McDavid/Makar level player (Celebrini is not that). Point/Kucherov/Hedman/Vasilevsky. Eichel/Stone/Pietrangelo/Marchessault. Mackinnon/Makar/Rantanen. Barkov/Tkachuk/Reinhart/Forsling.

I would like to have a core like Celebrini/Schaefer/McKenna/Askarov. Hopefully Smith gets to that level and we don't have to stress about 2026, but he's still a question mark at this point. I don't see Dobson at that level either, which is the crux of the problem--I don't think you're going to win a Cup if Noah Dobson is your best D.

As far as Buffalo goes, that's just a huge yawn right now. 18 months into our rebuild and we're two points behind them in the standings. None of the young players in our org are difference makers right now other than Eklund and 18 year old child Celebrini in his 6th ever NHL game. Grier has completely rebuilt a solid interim defense while we wait for the kids and gave up almost no assets to do it. I'm really not that worried.

If that’s the case, then I agree it would not make sense to trade for him right now. I was thinking he’s a Boyle/Burns talent (at their peaks in SJ) in which case, I think a core of Celebrini/Eklund or Smith (I’m hopeful that 1 of them gets to that level)/Dobson/Askarov would be on par with the cores you listed.

If Dobson isn’t a legit 1D then hard pass from me.

 

[Sharksfan66]

The Sabres are a very young team
And their captain has a lot to be desired

Not to cap on our Sabers friends but I think they would be the first to say that their rebuild hasn’t been the kind of thing that anybody should emulate.

 

[impaaaaaact]

Idea that just struck me...if the Sharks somehow land the Hagens pick, would NYI fans take Smith for Dobson straight up?

Yes. But keep in mind that Hagens has extra value to us being the rare #1 pick that grew up wearing Isles pajamas. Lou would probably be very, very motivated to try and acquire it - and should it fall into the Sharks hands again we would probably offer quite a lot for it

 

[miscs75]

Idea that just struck me...if the Sharks somehow land the Hagens pick, would NYI fans take Smith for Dobson straight up?

I want Hagens over Smith personally. Half because the kid is a stud and the other half because the life long Islanders fan going to the Islanders would rile up the elitist fanbases who think their teams are the only ones who deserve that.

 

[Grinner]

Not to cap on our Sabers friends but I think they would be the first to say that their rebuild hasn’t been the kind of thing that anybody should emulate.

They stocked up on the talent
Now they need to forge a winning team
Seasoning and the right glue kind of players is what's needed. A winning team is more than just a collection of talent

 

[Juxtaposer]

If that’s the case, then I agree it would not make sense to trade for him right now. I was thinking he’s a Boyle/Burns talent (at their peaks in SJ) in which case, I think a core of Celebrini/Eklund or Smith (I’m hopeful that 1 of them gets to that level)/Dobson/Askarov would be on par with the cores you listed.

If Dobson isn’t a legit 1D then hard pass from me.

He might be comparable to early Sharks Burns, but not to peak Burns (who won a Norris Trophy, let's not forget). If the price were something like what we paid for Burns, then certainly I'd be interested and hope that he took the next step like Burns did. But absolutely none of this top-5 pick+ for him.

I want Hagens over Smith personally. Half because the kid is a stud and the other half because the life long Islanders fan going to the Islanders would rile up the elitist fanbases who think their teams are the only ones who deserve that.

Dream on.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Silly thread. Noah is going nowhere.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Dobson
Danny Nelson

For

Will Smith
Havelid

 

[CanadienShark]

Dobson

For

Iginla
Carcone
Durzi

That would not end well for Utah.

Dobson
Danny Nelson

For

Will Smith
Havelid

Eh... I'm not crazy about the idea, but wouldn't lose my mind either. It probably boils down to his contract demands.

 

[stempniaksen]

Pinto + Zub + Conditional 1st (Top-3 protected) + B/C prospect (Soogard? Merilainen? Boucher? Eliasson?)

 

[Hodge]

This sounds like an internal memo from the Buffalo Sabers. No thanks.

You mean the team that f***ed up their rebuild by trading for O'Reilly and Kane way too early?

 

[Sharksfan66]

Yes. But keep in mind that Hagens has extra value to us being the rare #1 pick that grew up wearing Isles pajamas. Lou would probably be very, very motivated to try and acquire it - and should it fall into the Sharks hands again we would probably offer quite a lot for it

I did not know that about Hagens. Would be cool to see you guys get a good pajamas story after JT!

 

[Sharksfan66]

You mean the team that f***ed up their rebuild by trading for O'Reilly and Kane way too early?

Remind me...which one of those trades were "win now" trades?

Actually the O'Reilly and Kane trades are exactly my point. These are the kinds of trades teams make when someone in management says "we'd be better off continuing to tank for high picks than making a big win now trade."

 

[Sharksfan66]

He might be comparable to early Sharks Burns, but not to peak Burns (who won a Norris Trophy, let's not forget). If the price were something like what we paid for Burns, then certainly I'd be interested and hope that he took the next step like Burns did. But absolutely none of this top-5 pick+ for him.

Bummer. If that's the case, I've got no interest in moving even that kind of package for him. The Burns trade made sense because we had Boyle as our 1D. But without a legit 1D, you just end up playing guys like that above their heads and that's a recipe for disaster (I doubt Burns becomes Burns in Minnesota, for example). Hard pass from me.