Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

[wingsfannnn9191]

I'm probably one of the few people ok with trading ASP, but I want to say Misa projects as a winger and not a center. I'm less pro trading him for a non center, especially with the 13th. ASP is probably a top 5/10 prospect not currently in the NHL. I think I'd want a more sure thing if I'm dealing the 13th and him.

I do agree with what was said above about dealing the 13th overall for a solid upgrade. I think Yzerman has sort of backed himself into a corner. Its too late for the Ray/Seider/Ed group to sell guys like Lark & DBC for assets and tank again. He basically has to improve the team at this point and hope that some of his picks outproduce their spots. Thanks to young guys getting massive deals on their 1st contracts you can no longer wait for guys to just develop because you will start to run out of cap space. Also as we have no sure fire #1 C prospects, we need to start pushing while Larkin is still able. Hopefully Kasper/ Danielson can replace him when the time comes, but there is no guarantee. While I do think you can win with a Larkin level #1, I don't think you can win with anyone less then that.

Doesnt bother me if misa turns into a 80-100 pt forward. Kasper can be 2c or 2lw if danielson ever supplants him??

If he'd be ready next season can go with a

Misa larkin raymond line and keep debrincat kasper kane as the 2nd unless we move down a slot and move up a soderblom

If were dealing that 13th pick I want someone here longterm and you cant get more longterm than an 18 yr old

Sharks probably wouldn't do the deal anyways

 

[USAHockey97]

Offer sheet Mathew Knies.

9M/7yrs

If we get him, automatically makes our forward group better and hurts Toronto. Giving up 1+2+3 for his calibre type of player I do all day every day.

If he accepts the offer but Toronto matches, we handicap Toronto salary cap wise for the next few years, or it forces them to let Marner walk, or minimal space to sign depth.

I like it. Wings get screwed by lottery, target others teams who’ve had lottery luck and may have a cap crunch. We get our high end players that way! /s

 

[USAHockey97]

I'm probably one of the few people ok with trading ASP, but I want to say Misa projects as a winger and not a center. I'm less pro trading him for a non center, especially with the 13th. ASP is probably a top 5/10 prospect not currently in the NHL. I think I'd want a more sure thing if I'm dealing the 13th and him.

I do agree with what was said above about dealing the 13th overall for a solid upgrade. I think Yzerman has sort of backed himself into a corner. Its too late for the Ray/Seider/Ed group to sell guys like Lark & DBC for assets and tank again. He basically has to improve the team at this point and hope that some of his picks outproduce their spots. Thanks to young guys getting massive deals on their 1st contracts you can no longer wait for guys to just develop because you will start to run out of cap space. Also as we have no sure fire #1 C prospects, we need to start pushing while Larkin is still able. Hopefully Kasper/ Danielson can replace him when the time comes, but there is no guarantee. While I do think you can win with a Larkin level #1, I don't think you can win with anyone less then that.

Wings have no replacement for Larkin as it stands right now. They need some high end talent.

 

[SirloinUB]

I'd deal MBN in a heartbeat for a player like Connor, assuming he gets extended. Detroit needs to stop clutching their pearls as if every pick will eventually be a major difference maker.

In this scenario, if Winnipeg was willing to accept something like Ras, MBN, Berggren, and a 1st, I do that deal all day long. To me, that's very similar to the Debrincat trade - I'm not missing any of those assets versus what ADB brings to the table (and Connor is an even better player).

I'm very open to to trading the pick however, Kyle Connor was drafted 17th overall. Lots of great players are taken after 10th overall every year.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

Yeah it’s kind of insane. It’s like people have forgotten what good players look like. The deal you indicated would be laughed at by Winnipeg and people in here are saying MBN is off the table for a guy like Connor?

Connor would be our best player instantly by a massive margin too. He’s like Raymond’s best case if Raymond takes another two steps. What are we doing in here lol?

Man if we somehow pulled a deal for misa and connor came as a ufa

Top 3 lines in 2 season's. Debrincat can be trade bait for Larkin's d partner

Time to start the youth movement

Connor larkin raymond
Misa kasper nygard
Lombardi danielson soderblom

 

[jkutswings]

Lots of great players are taken after 10th overall every year.

Possible? Yes. Probable enough to bank on it as a strategy? No.

And this also points back to resolution of the timeframe. If they're keeping Larkin, they don't have the luxury of waiting 4-5 years to see if 13OA beats the odds and becomes a great player, because then your 1C is fading and you have another hole in the lineup.

 

[SirloinUB]

Possible? Yes. Probable enough to bank on it as a strategy? No.

And this also points back to resolution of the timeframe. If they're keeping Larkin, they don't have the luxury of waiting 4-5 years to see if 13OA beats the odds and becomes a great player, because then your 1C is fading and you have another hole in the lineup.

Larkin vs the core is fascinating. I don't think you and others are wrong to say we either need to trade larkin or start shipping out future assets. Personally I don't see it as that black and white but I understand your viewpoint.

I'm also skeptical that a worthwhile trade is out there in either direction tbh.

 

[izlez]

Since the lottery probably made my first win-now move of trading for Sorokin even less likely, I move on to my second aggressive win-now move: Trading for Lafreniere

Not yet 24 years old, has had plenty of really good streaks in the NHL without fully putting it together.

Reminds me of a Reinhart situation a bit. His NHL floor is very high with the possibility of him still putting it all together and being elite. Not a type of player that becomes available very often and could be the type of gamble you need to make (IF you are actually able to pry him away from New York)


I also bring this up as a different option at LW because with Connor having another year on his deal, I think the odds of him leaving Winnipeg at near 0% and the odds of Detroit being the winning bidder a fraction of that.

 

[jkutswings]

Larkin vs the core is fascinating. I don't think you and others are wrong to say we either need to trade larkin or start shipping out future assets. Personally I don't see it as that black and white but I understand your viewpoint.

I'm also skeptical that a worthwhile trade is out there in either direction tbh.

It's fair to be skeptical about how successfully either direction can be executed. I just don't see anything worthwhile without committing to one road or the other.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I'm very open to to trading the pick however, Kyle Connor was drafted 17th overall. Lots of great players are taken after 10th overall every year.

Kyle Connor is 6th in scoring in what is probably the best draft year in the last 15 years. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills …the 13th pick won’t be even close to a Connor level player

 

[Run the Jewels]

Kyle Connor is 6th in scoring in what is probably the best draft year in the last 15 years. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills …the 13th pick won’t be even close to a Connor level player

Some of these takes are completely bonkers. When's the last time we drafted a guy who could hit 30 even strength goals per season? Oh, and he's also putting up a PPG over the last 4 playoffs.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Connor's price is dictated entirely on him pulling a DeBrincat in terms of us. If he is willing to make clear that he is hitting free agency and he has one destination in mind that changes this discussion entirely. My guess is the Jets are probably willing to call his bluff on it and make him walk into free agency. But that is something out of our hands until they talk on July 1st this summer.

 

[Winger98]

Larkin vs the core is fascinating. I don't think you and others are wrong to say we either need to trade larkin or start shipping out future assets. Personally I don't see it as that black and white but I understand your viewpoint.

I'm also skeptical that a worthwhile trade is out there in either direction tbh.

I'm also not sold on on the idea of it being an either/or thing.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I'm also not sold on on the idea of it being an either/or thing.

The concern with Larkin is mostly can he captain this team where they need to go? Two straight years they have bottled the playoffs. Kings fans are not thrilled with Kopitar as captain, they won both their Cups with Brown wearing the C.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Since the lottery probably made my first win-now move of trading for Sorokin even less likely, I move on to my second aggressive win-now move: Trading for Lafreniere

Not yet 24 years old, has had plenty of really good streaks in the NHL without fully putting it together.

Reminds me of a Reinhart situation a bit. His NHL floor is very high with the possibility of him still putting it all together and being elite. Not a type of player that becomes available very often and could be the type of gamble you need to make (IF you are actually able to pry him away from New York)


I also bring this up as a different option at LW because with Connor having another year on his deal, I think the odds of him leaving Winnipeg at near 0% and the odds of Detroit being the winning bidder a fraction of that.

The Rangers were the team I would target with Larkin if he does come in and talk about exiting between here and the draft. Lafreniere and Miller would be interesting additions and they are supposedly open to moving on from either guy. Given their rough seasons I am not sure you cannot get their pick too or at least some form of pick swaps. I don't think Larkin is going to ask but this is one of the destinations I can see him waiving for that actually has pieces we want to move on from Larkin. Now you have left an absolute gaping hole at center in the roster and people should be very afraid of what the conversations with Bennett as a UFA become at that point. But that is how you turn Larkin into three players in top 6 and a top 4 role.

I really doubt Byfield is available but that is the other obvious one. I wasn't as high on Lafreniere in his draft year but I do think Raymond could do a lot with him as a linemate.

 

[SirloinUB]

It's fair to be skeptical about how successfully either direction can be executed. I just don't see anything worthwhile without committing to one road or the other.

Out of curiosity how much would you be willing to "lose a trade" to upgrade the roster right now? What's the worst kind of player (Maybe a stat line or role) you'd be willing to trade a 1st + for? Would a 24 year old 20 Goal, 20 assist kinda guy be worth it?

I truly love the idea of taking a swing but, admittedly, I can be pretty risk adverse at times haha

 

[SirloinUB]

Kyle Connor is 6th in scoring in what is probably the best draft year in the last 15 years. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills …the 13th pick won’t be even close to a Connor level player

Totally fair, Nobody is expecting a Pastrank, Connor, Boldy, Morrissey after 10. I more so meant a top 6ers or top 4 D, because those guys are drafted outside of the top 10.

I certainly wouldn't expect a Kyle Connor, but rather, quality contributor, which I believe, are available.

 

[jkutswings]

Out of curiosity how much would you be willing to "lose a trade" to upgrade the roster right now? What's the worst kind of player (Maybe a stat line or role) you'd be willing to trade a 1st + for? Would a 24 year old 20 Goal, 20 assist kinda guy be worth it?

I truly love the idea of taking a swing but, admittedly, I can be pretty risk adverse at times haha

It's more about the player than the picks. A 20/20 guy is only of mild interest unless I think either his production will still go up or he brings additional stuff to the table (faceoffs, PK, leadership, etc.).

I'm tired of quantity over quality and I'm willing to pay plenty of assets to upgrade. I'd prefer to not lose Kasper or Danielson, but I'd at least listen to moves including any other prospects or picks. For a guy as good as Kyle Connor, I'd happily deal the equivalent of 3 first round picks and I might go even higher, because I don't see 3-4 hamburgers being as impactful as one prime rib.

I really don't expect a single impact player from any draft picks going forward, so if somebody will part with a high end player in exchange, they can have several picks and I don't consider it a loss at all.

 

[SirloinUB]

It's more about the player than the picks. A 20/20 guy is only of mild interest unless I think either his production will still go up or he brings additional stuff to the table (faceoffs, PK, leadership, etc.).

I'm tired of quantity over quality and I'm willing to pay plenty of assets to upgrade. I'd prefer to not lose Kasper or Danielson, but I'd at least listen to moves including any other prospects or picks. For a guy as good as Kyle Connor, I'd happily deal the equivalent of 3 first round picks and I might go even higher, because I don't see 3-4 hamburgers being as impactful as one prime rib.

I really don't expect a single impact player from any draft picks going forward, so if somebody will part with a high end player in exchange, they can have several picks and I don't consider it a loss at all.

I'm with you on Connor, 110%. I would be comfortable doing a 13th + Danielson + top 5 protected 2026 pick +

But.. I don't think he, or someone of that level will actually be traded this summer, which is why I framed the question the way I did.

So on the other side of the spectrum from the 24 year old 20-20 guy, would you do a 1st + for someone in the 29-32 range age range than is more proven? Fiala, Rust, Rakell, etc.?

 

[jkutswings]

I'm with you on Connor, 110%.

But.. I don't think he, or someone of that level will actually be traded this summer, which is why I framed the question the way I did.

Fair. We'll see how many rocks Yzerman is willing to turn over, and what does or doesn't happen.

So on the other side of the spectrum from the 24 year old 20-20 guy, would you do a 1st + for someone in there late 29-32 range? Fiala, Rust, Rakell, etc.?

No. My appetite drops very sharply for guys providing only 2-3 years of impactful play, let alone any rentals that can't be extended. Identify who can help maximize the next 5-6 years, pay the piper, and do as much damage in your window as you can.

EDIT: this applies a bit less to defensemen than forwards, but I'm still not chasing a 1-2 year deal.

 

[13to40]

I like it. Wings get screwed by lottery, target others teams who’ve had lottery luck and may have a cap crunch. We get our high end players that way! /s

Not sure why why the sarcasm.

Matthew Knies instantly becomes one of our best players on the team.

Contract would have to be 9.1M/5yrs…

Watching this guy shine in the playoffs, I think this team would be a fool not to at least at the bare minimal assess such a move.

 

[Winger98]

The concern with Larkin is mostly can he captain this team where they need to go? Two straight years they have bottled the playoffs. Kings fans are not thrilled with Kopitar as captain, they won both their Cups with Brown wearing the C.

How old was Kopitar when the kings won their cups? Brown captained a couple of cup teams be ause the kings had way better teams then.

I'll have concern over Larkin's leadership when there is more for him to lead.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

The concern with Larkin is mostly can he captain this team where they need to go? Two straight years they have bottled the playoffs. Kings fans are not thrilled with Kopitar as captain, they won both their Cups with Brown wearing the C.

Huh? I don't know any Kings fans who are unhappy with Kopitar as captain. The guy is beloved.

I like Brown but he was always very quiet for a captain. He was picked early on as a sign of hope for the franchise. I don't necessarily agree with them stripping Brown of the C but Kopitar was a natural to replace him. Brown's play really fell off in 2014 so when they stripped him of the C my guess it was because they thought they would eventually be buying him out to get rid of his contract.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Huh? I don't know any Kings fans who are unhappy with Kopitar as captain. The guy is beloved.

I like Brown but he was always very quiet for a captain. He was picked early on as a sign of hope for the franchise. I don't necessarily agree with them stripping Brown of the C but Kopitar was a natural to replace him. Brown's play really fell off in 2014 so when they stripped him of the C my guess it was because they thought they would eventually be buying him out to get rid of his contract.

If you go over to their board there are a lot of people unloading on them after four straight losses. Also have the fire sale thread on the main. Kopitar has aged beyond any hope you could have had. I think that is misguided if people think he is the problem. McDavid is burying them, he does that to a lot of people.

I mean I hope the Kings are willing to shake things up. Gavrikov is probably our biggest need in UFA and they have a bunch of guys that interest me if they are going to start trading people.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

If you go over to their board there are a lot of people unloading on them after four straight losses. Also have the fire sale thread on the main. Kopitar has aged beyond any hope you could have had. I think that is misguided if people think he is the problem. McDavid is burying them, he does that to a lot of people.

Ah ok. I don't peruse that board anymore but am in so cal so know lots of fans of the team. There's a lot of hate for the management but everyone loves Kopi.

The bigger issue is the team shouldn't have to lean so hard on its 37 year old center, not that he's wearing the C.

I'd take Kopitar on the Wings next season in a heartbeat. He'd be 2c.