Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

[Run the Jewels]

I think Copp's D game was a big loss. The PK was finally starting to look a bit better and it unraveled again when he went down. Only having 1 guy in Larkin that could consistently win a faceoff was hard too. I'm not a huge fan of Copp and he should be a bottom 6 C on this team (making him overpaid until the cap goes up this off season) but he does bring an element to this team that we don't have elsewhere. This team is incredibly weak defensively in the Forward world.

Its one of the reasons I think Danielson will have the inside shot for the roster spot over say Ammo. We have very few guys on this roster that are actually + players defensively.

I’m so glad Copp was interviewed to offset the regular Dylan Larkin Pity Party. Imagine listening to Larkin everyday in that locker room.

Cringe city.

 

[RedHawkDown]

How do you think Ray's gonna look without Larkin? You remember when he had to play with Compher? Players don't exist in a vacuum. Linemates matter.

Money won't make frustration go away. I know that from personal experience. The team improving? Barely. Year 7 without playoffs for Stevie. He'd be making the same money regardless of which team he plays for anyways.

The only valid point you have is that maybe he's not the right p[layer to be captain for the Wings. Maybe he'll be happier on a winning team. I can guarantee that the team will absolutely suck next season if he's traded. At that point, it's time to fire Stevie and hire another GM for the rebuild.

This is the only point that anyone is making. Nobody is saying he’s wrong to be frustrated. But he’s absolute wrong to be frustrated and whining as the captain.

I’m not sure if you’ve played hockey before but the captain makes a massive difference. Imo more than the coach. He’s the guy guys look to to set the tone when you’re getting blown out, losing etc. if Larkin is sulking and crying like this when the team is sucking, no wonder we go on long losing streaks when the supposed leader is acting like a baby

 

[19 for president]

How do you think Ray's gonna look without Larkin? You remember when he had to play with Compher? Players don't exist in a vacuum. Linemates matter.

Money won't make frustration go away. I know that from personal experience. The team improving? Barely. Year 7 without playoffs for Stevie. He'd be making the same money regardless of which team he plays for anyways.

The only valid point you have is that maybe he's not the right p[layer to be captain for the Wings. Maybe he'll be happier on a winning team. I can guarantee that the team will absolutely suck next season if he's traded. At that point, it's time to fire Stevie and hire another GM for the rebuild.

I think you are right on the human nature bit. Yeah he's getting a ton of money to play what amounts to a game, but there is still something to be said for the effect a sinking ship has on you. We also need to remember that these guys have crap going on in their real lives and Larkin & his wife have somewhat publicly had some pretty major pregnancy issues in the past 2 years.

Larkin is clealry not a big vocal leader and someone who often internalizes stuff. It may be time to have him take a step back or at least bring in a vocal leader to pair with him. Perron's loss on the ice probably wasn't a big deal but it was a massive loss in the locker room. Every locker room needs a charismatic rah rah guy to get the internalizers to stop living in their heads (I say this as an internalizer myself). Mac basically said as much when he came in. I think he'll be a positive influence here next year but they could do to have that in the lockeroom. Stevie could do to find that physical leader for the 4th line this off season.

 

[stillwater]

Just spit-balling...but:

Compher
Rasmussen

For

Kovalenko
2025 2nd(Ottawa)

Because other teams are stupid, right?

They'll always take the guys you want to get rid of and even give you something of value in return.

Why would SJ do this?

 

[Gniwder]

This is the only point that anyone is making. Nobody is saying he’s wrong to be frustrated. But he’s absolute wrong to be frustrated and whining as the captain.

I’m not sure if you’ve played hockey before but the captain makes a massive difference. Imo more than the coach. He’s the guy guys look to to set the tone when you’re getting blown out, losing etc. if Larkin is sulking and crying like this when the team is sucking, no wonder we go on long losing streaks when the supposed leader is acting like a baby

Fair enough. If Stevie trades DBoss then what? That'll be year #8 for Stevie without playoffs, with every little hope of getting there in the next 3 years.

If Larkin needed to be traded, that should have happened when his last contract expired so the team could go full tank for multiple years.

Trade Larkin now and we start looking like the Sabres with a likely possibility of matching their all time NHL record playoff drought. Stevie should just resign and let someone else redo the rebuild.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Fair enough. If Stevie trades DBoss then what? That'll be year #8 for Stevie without playoffs, with every little hope of getting there in the next 3 years.

If Larkin needed to be traded, that should have happened when his last contract expired so the team could go full tank for multiple years.

Trade Larkin now and we start looking like the Sabres with a likely possibility of matching their all time NHL record playoff drought. Stevie should just resign and let someone else redo the rebuild.

I think a trade is only worthwhile if there is a young C with potential we can get back. Like Byfield in LA if LA wants to make another run with Kopitar/Doughty. Otherwise, jsut give the C to Seider.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

I think a trade is only worthwhile if there is a young C with potential we can get back. Like Byfield in LA if LA wants to make another run with Kopitar/Doughty. Otherwise, jsut give the C to Seider.

Chance to get byfield is long gone

 

[deca guard]

I’m so glad Copp was interviewed to offset the regular Dylan Larkin Pity Party. Imagine listening to Larkin everyday in that locker room.

Cringe city.

im a huge larkin fan but NEVER watch media stuff beyond the panel with keats/oz/murph/mick , while muting player/coach interveiws . but here n there i will catch 30 seconds of lark interveiws and im like ''bye bye now , i gone'' . if im running a team i want my captain/players saying 'look we tried our damdest and we lost , bye bye now'' , no need for the media vampires act ! but obviously the washed up clowns running nhl want their vampires center stage so the mess is broadcast , best off not watching or giving a dam bout off ice stuff

 

[LongTimeDRWF]

Also with Petry and Holl likely gone (god help us if he isn't), the blueline got significantly less physical and capable of dealing with big guys in front of the net. Johannson relies on stickwork (as in stick check, not in a Duncan Keith way) but Ed will hopefully work on it in the offseason. But it's good to have Chiarot making guys pay a price.

I think Ed had already said he intended to pack on 20 pounds or so this off season. Unfortunately, unless SY finds a taker for Holl (maybe he will, thin FA market this year and teams should have some cap relief) I see him buried in GR unless they cannot land a decent LHD this summer as a back up plan for ASP. I can see Petry as an 7/8D taking up press-box duties at a bargain rate as the alternate to burying Holl.

Expecting next year to be another development season, I wouldn't attach any assets to dump Holl, unless they really need the contract slot (say maybe Rudy wants to sign if he has a great Memorial Cup run with Moncton sign and play another year in the Q instead of college, I hope not, but never say never), I wouldn't buy him out.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

Detroit Red Wings 2018-19 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com

The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 2018-19 Detroit Red Wings playing in the NHL.

www.hockeydb.com

This was the turd yzerman inherited

Zadina veleno berggren Rasmussen lindstrom givani smith cholowski svechnikov is what we had in the system

We now have seider raymond kasper edvinsson Johansson soderblom

Asp nygaard danielson lombardi cossa kiiskinen finnie plante wallinder buium augustine becher guimond james and im sure others are players hes drafted in 6 years that we have in the system


And we all know unless we got lottery picks it takes years for these kids to show up. Anyone who expected this to be all over 5 yrs after yzerman came and suggests firing him is a complete fool

And any player who complains should just pack and take a hike

 

[jkutswings]

LOL, no suggestions or solutions, just demands. Who bears responsibility for the team dropping 15 of 20 last season which killed their playoff position? Everyone focuses on those last three games, not the 20 that sealed their fate. Is it on Yzerman who didn't do enough that season either?

Larkin doesn't sound like a guy long for the captaincy IMO.

So it's my job to find the solution and hand it to Yzerman? Last I checked, he was the one getting paid for it (after being hired in with the perception of being a top 5 GM in the league). I would have started packaging draft picks last summer to trade for top half of the lineup talent, but again, I'm not the one whose job it is to fix this mess.

Trade Larkin if you want. I'm not saying his level of play or approach to the captaincy is amazing. My point is that Steve Yzerman has done a great job drafting with his first round picks and a terrible job in free agency - and that it's ok to acknowledge both, while not being satisfied with where the rebuild is right now.

Even if I thought Larkin was a bad player, I still wouldn't blame him for not being happy with a timeline of 8+ years to even make the playoffs, which is the pace Detroit is at so far.

 

[Gniwder]

I think a trade is only worthwhile if there is a young C with potential we can get back. Like Byfield in LA if LA wants to make another run with Kopitar/Doughty. Otherwise, jsut give the C to Seider.

Someone already said it, but nobody trades a younger 70 pt center for an older one. That's not how it works.

The best case scenario is trading one malcontent for another. Something like DBoss for Pettersson, but basically the Wings would gain $3.5M more salary for IMHO a lesser player.

And any player who complains should just pack and take a hike

Yeah, losing Walman made the team so much better . I'm sure losing DBoss will make this team even more awesome.

It's a terrible management philosophy to fire the workers to save bad management. That's how companies fail. I see so many bad management practices in the org, you could literally write a master's thesis on how bad they handle things.

As for having better prospects and players? Yeah, Stevie's been here 7 freakin years. Of course it's better, it's not good enough. Next year will be year #8 without playoffs for Stevie unless he goes big in UFA.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

So it's my job to find the solution and hand it to Yzerman? Last I checked, he was the one getting paid for it (after being hired in with the perception of being a top 5 GM in the league). I would have started packaging draft picks last summer to trade for top half of the lineup talent, but again, I'm not the one whose job it is to fix this mess.

Trade Larkin if you want. I'm not saying his level of play or approach to the captaincy is amazing. My point is that Steve Yzerman has done a great job drafting with his first round picks and a terrible job in free agency - and that it's ok to acknowledge both, while not being satisfied with where the rebuild is right now.

Even if I thought Larkin was a bad player, I still wouldn't blame him for not being happy with a timeline of 8+ years to even make the playoffs, which is the pace Detroit is at so far.

Think we can get in next year or the year after 100% always said the kids would lead the way and were getting asp lombardi mazur etc.. next yr or yr after + yzerman might make a few trades I suspect

 

[Run the Jewels]

So it's my job to find the solution and hand it to Yzerman? Last I checked, he was the one getting paid for it (after being hired in with the perception of being a top 5 GM in the league). I would have started packaging draft picks last summer to trade for top half of the lineup talent, but again, I'm not the one whose job it is to fix this mess.

Trade Larkin if you want. I'm not saying his level of play or approach to the captaincy is amazing. My point is that Steve Yzerman has done a great job drafting with his first round picks and a terrible job in free agency - and that it's ok to acknowledge both, while not being satisfied with where the rebuild is right now.

Even if I thought Larkin was a bad player, I still wouldn't blame him for not being happy with a timeline of 8+ years to even make the playoffs, which is the pace Detroit is at so far.

Yzerman assembled a team 4 points out of 4th place in late February last season before the team lost 15 of 20 games. But sure, go on about your expectations for Yzerman while giving the captain a pass.

Yzerman should have done something! Larkin? 10 out of 10, no notes.

 

[better Red than Dead]

I disagree here. I think Larkin has every right to be disappointed in Yzerman. 2 trade deadlines in a row Yzerman failed to acquire anything. And it can be argued that it cost the team 2 playoff berths.

This also goes back to a point I made in an earlier thread; at what point do the players lose faith in the GM? If your captain is saying this at an end of season presser then I think that time is right now.

Yzerman needs to take some big swings to improve this roster. You can’t sit back and just be conservative in this league in 2025.

Totally agree. As Captain it’s up to Larkin to reflect and advocate for his teammates and I think there was disappointment that Yzerman did not make any meaningful moves. Yzerman needs to be uber aggressive this summer, not just sign UFAs or come close on Trouba types of moves, he needs to actually accomplish something. There needs to be big changes

 

[RedHawkDown]

Someone already said it, but nobody trades a younger 70 pt center for an older one. That's not how it works.

The best case scenario is trading one malcontent for another. Something like DBoss for Pettersson, but basically the Wings would gain $3.5M more salary for IMHO a lesser player.


Yeah, losing Walman made the team so much better . I'm sure losing DBoss will make this team even more awesome.

It's a terrible management philosophy to fire the workers to save bad management. That's how companies fail. I see so many bad management practices in the org, you could literally write a master's thesis on how bad they handle things.

As for having better prospects and players? Yeah, Stevie's been here 7 freakin years. Of course it's better, it's not good enough. Next year will be year #8 without playoffs for Stevie unless he goes big in UFA.

Byfield is not a 70pt C. It’s unclear if he ever becomes one. At Byfields age Larkin had a 63 and 73 pt season.

In any case, losing Larkin isn’t about how good he is at all. It’s about whether he’s creating a shit culture in the locker room. If we are to extrapolate from his media presence and comments, it sure looks that way.

 

[better Red than Dead]

Who did Montreal add to help them get to the playoffs?

They didn’t need to because they added over the summer and drafted well the last few years.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

Someone already said it, but nobody trades a younger 70 pt center for an older one. That's not how it works.

The best case scenario is trading one malcontent for another. Something like DBoss for Pettersson, but basically the Wings would gain $3.5M more salary for IMHO a lesser player.


Yeah, losing Walman made the team so much better . I'm sure losing DBoss will make this team even more awesome.

It's a terrible management philosophy to fire the workers to save bad management. That's how companies fail. I see so many bad management practices in the org, you could literally write a master's thesis on how bad they handle things.

As for having better prospects and players? Yeah, Stevie's been here 7 freakin years. Of course it's better, it's not good enough. Next year will be year #8 without playoffs for Stevie unless he goes big in UFA.

Never said the walman trade made any sense I came here and called him an idiot just like I did when he signed copp and compher and mostly everyone here was praising him for finding our 2 c ... quite laughable

Hes done a lousy job overall in free agency but hes done a great job in drafting considering we never got a top 3 pick. Our pool is filled now

As for debrincat I said I'd trade him to get seider's d partner if we signed marner. No need for every winger on the top 6 to be 5 feet and under. And imo I dont see yzerman giving him an 8 yr deal so depending on the return I'd be ok dealing him (wont happen now so ppl can calm down)

The 2025 draft will be the 7th year. We all know it takes 3-5 for kids to arrive and we have a ton coming in 2025-2026&2026-2027 ... if they bust then you can come here and complain and ill be here as well saying hes done a shit job

Until then ppl should be quiet . You guys were unrealistic and demanding miracles. Hes drafted 6 times chillax and let the kids arrive. If the top free agents dont want to come wtf do you want to do???

I'd be over trying to get a Romanov if we can but no ones dealing a 1st line player to us. Maybe we get lucky and kyle connor wants to come here in a year

I was pushing for trading for lafraniere and byfield when teams were too happy with them at the time. I'd still do that, that's the only way to get those players get them when they're values low

Take a gamble at elias pettersson if he wants out, think its crazy to think he sucks now and will never bounce back ... go for isaac Howard. Those are the deals we have to make

Call Teams for wyatt Johnston,knies, etc... they'll hang up on you

 

[JediOrderPizza]

I just worry about Larkin with how down he looks in just about every presser. Not saying he doesn't have a reason to be after nine season but if you are bringing that into the locker room while being the captain that's a really bad thing.

You gotta be able to brush off some of this stuff, and not woe is me every March. They let the losing slides go on for way too long. We have seen how they play when the vibes are good, but when they are bad hoo boy.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

They didn’t need to because they added over the summer and drafted well the last few years.

The kids showed up and took over. Captain showed up

If Asp shows up next season and gets 50 pts how do you think our season will be?? Larkin getting 85 pts ? Getting goaltending

We missed by 1 pt last yr. We can get in next season

 

[jkutswings]

Yzerman assembled a team 4 points out of 4th place in late February last season before the team lost 15 of 20 games. But sure, go on about your expectations for Yzerman while giving the captain a pass.

Yzerman should have done something! Larkin? 10 out of 10, no notes.

How in earth did you read, "Trade Larkin if you want. I'm not saying his level of play or approach to the captaincy is amazing" and come away with, "Larkin? 10 out of 10, no notes."???

I'm fine with a BOTH/AND (Larkin and Yzerman both did not handle this season correctly). What I'm not fine with is, "Larkin is the start and finish of what kept this wonderful roster from making the playoffs."

There are several lousy players here that Steve Yzerman added. Had some of those lousy players instead been even average NHL talent properly slotted, this flawed roster with a flawed captain would have made the playoffs last year and this year. That's on the GM.

Debating how big each slice of the responsibility pie is fine. But plenty of fans still want to paint Yzerman as doing an incredible job in all facets, which simply isn't true.

 

[datsyukfan]

Montreal made it in because of unbelievable goaltending down the stretch. The team did not play well in 80% of their finals games. A hot goalie pretty much saved their bacon every night.

They will probably be the only team to not win a game this post season.

I agree, watched plenty of their games and they were dominated for big stretches. I think Detroit actually played much better than their record in March. Many games they deserved a better result then they got. If yzerman makes a couple moves we will be comfortably ahead of Montreal and ahead of Ottawa imo

 

[Gniwder]

Byfield is not a 70pt C. It’s unclear if he ever becomes one. At Byfields age Larkin had a 63 and 73 pt season.

In any case, losing Larkin isn’t about how good he is at all. It’s about whether he’s creating a shit culture in the locker room. If we are to extrapolate from his media presence and comments, it sure looks that way.

It's very rare for a team to demote a captain, the most common solution is to trade the player. Maybe Stevie can get VAN to eat the extra salary and retain $3M of Pattersson's cap hit. IF they decide to trade DBoss, that's probably the best case scenario. I think Elias is a lesser overall player (despite his 102 pt season), but I also don't think he's a 45 pt player either. It still makes this team worse, not better.

Funny part about all of this is that Stevie was known to be a selfish whiny player too.

Also, every single bad trade the Wings have made involved "personality" issues, Dionne was tired of losing (sounds familiar), Oates supposedly partied too much, and then there's Walman.... Trading Larkin doesn't help.

What would I do? Give Marner $14M, and tell Dylan, "Here you go. You got help. STFU and go win." And also add a defenseman.

 

[datsyukfan]

Dylan sounds like a player who has had to give countless post game talks for an awful team that's taking forever to get anywhere and is getting tired of it (but said so in a more tactful way).

And I don't blame him one bit.

Can Larkin improve his game? Yes, he's far from a perfect player. But if I were in his shoes, I'd tell Yzerman that this summer he either adds enough talent that it's playoffs each year going forward, or I ask for a trade. I'm not wasting the rest of my career to just babysit the kids and watch lousy players rinse and repeat with a third of the roster spots.

Agreed. Larkin had gone through this shit a hell of a lot longer than Mo. losing has become normal and he’s frustrated that the GM doesn’t do a damn thing to take care of the now and is only thinking of the later. Don’t blame him one bit for being pissed

 

[13to40]

I agree, watched plenty of their games and they were dominated for big stretches. I think Detroit actually played much better than their record in March. Many games they deserved a better result then they got. If yzerman makes a couple moves we will be comfortably ahead of Montreal and ahead of Ottawa imo

Not sure about being ahead of Ottawa unless we land Mitch Marner (not a player I would be happy about getting. He’s as soft as they come), but definitely ahead of the Habs.

Ottawa has Vezina calibre goaltending. That’s what Detroit desperately lacks right now more than all else: a goalie who can steal a few games and play consistently well for 50-60 games a year.