Your Rebuild Opinion? Next Move Coming?

Not sure about being ahead of Ottawa unless we land Mitch Marner (not a player I would be happy about getting. He’s as soft as they come), but definitely ahead of the Habs.

Ottawa has Vezina calibre goaltending. That’s what Detroit desperately lacks right now more than all else: a goalie who can steal a few games and play consistently well for 50-60 games a year.

Talbot did steal games for the Wings, particularly in the first half of the season. Overall the goaltending hasn't been Vezina caliber with the Husso experiment and Lyon faltering, but more often than not it was good enough to win.

I'd put team defense, secondary scoring, and definitely the PK as issues well ahead of goaltending.
 
For this Red Wings team to be comfortably in the playoffs we needed just one player of DeBrincat caliber. Could Yzerman get one on the market? Absolutely yes. He just needed to sell our farm, eg by trading Lombardi, Danielson, and Wallinder.

I would even name that player, it is Kadri, for example and his contract coming along.

Will be happy with such a playoff appearance?
 
Agreed. Larkin had gone through this shit a hell of a lot longer than Mo. losing has become normal and he’s frustrated that the GM doesn’t do a damn thing to take care of the now and is only thinking of the later. Don’t blame him one bit for being pissed

Yup, some people here don't realize that everyone has a breaking point, even if they are paid shitloads of money. I took a 20% pay cut compared to my last job. Heck, I was more than likely the highest paid non-management employee in the whole division when I quit.

7 years of futility. I get it. Oddly, I'm more empathetic on this one than the rest of the board which is kinda hilarious.

Though I do think he needs to be traded if Stevie isn't gonna make a big move in free agency. (Not that I want it.) Gonna be an interesting offseason.

Actually next year will be #7, lol. (I did say next season). This year was 6. He started in 2019.
 
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How in earth did you read, "Trade Larkin if you want. I'm not saying his level of play or approach to the captaincy is amazing" and come away with, "Larkin? 10 out of 10, no notes."???

I'm fine with a BOTH/AND (Larkin and Yzerman both did not handle this season correctly). What I'm not fine with is, "Larkin is the start and finish of what kept this wonderful roster from making the playoffs."

There are several lousy players here that Steve Yzerman added. Had some of those lousy players instead been even average NHL talent properly slotted, this flawed roster with a flawed captain would have made the playoffs last year and this year. That's on the GM.

Debating how big each slice of the responsibility pie is fine. But plenty of fans still want to paint Yzerman as doing an incredible job in all facets, which simply isn't true.
Yzerman should have done something!! What? I have no idea, but he should have done something!!

Amazing analysis. No criticism for the players bottling a playoff spot by losing 15 of 20 last season?

Amazing.
 
Yzerman should have done something!! What? I have no idea, but he should have done something!!

Amazing analysis. No criticism for the players bottling a playoff spot by losing 15 of 20 last season?

Amazing.
He did nothing of substance in the offseason but waste money, and he did nothing to add during the trade deadline. He has prospects that can be dealt and should be dealt for, at the very least, bottom 6 depth.
 
Yup, some people here don't realize that everyone has a breaking point, even if they are paid shitloads of money. I took a 20% pay cut compared to my last job. Heck, I was more than likely the highest paid non-management employee in the whole division when I quit.

7 years of futility. I get it. Oddly, I'm more empathetic on this one than the rest of the board which is kinda hilarious.

Though I do think he needs to be traded if Stevie isn't gonna make a big move in free agency. (Not that I want it.) Gonna be an interesting offseason.


Actually next year will be #7, lol. (I did say next season). This year was 6. He started in 2019.
If you made nine million dollars and were the CFO of the company and were crying about it, then yes, you were not fit for the CFO role. Larkin is not fit for the captain role if his reaction to 7 years of losing is crying and whining as opposed to saying “lets f***ing go, enough is enough, it’s our time to shine.”
 
I recognize this is borne out of frustration with missing the playoffs, but turning this press conference into a referendum on Larkin is pretty overblown. The way some of you are talking, he came out blaming everyone and everything but himself. Seriously? How many times have we heard him say "I need to be better" or something similar? The issues with this team are multilayered and I really think a lot of you aren't thinking about the consequences of trading him.
 
If you made nine million dollars and were the CFO of the company and were crying about it, then yes, you were not fit for the CFO role. Larkin is not fit for the captain role if his reaction to 7 years of losing is crying and whining as opposed to saying “lets f***ing go, enough is enough, it’s our time to shine.”
But only fans are saying that, nobody that actually matter in the organization, teammates, or plugged in people around the league has ever indicated that Larkin is anything but a great person and leader. Yet this narrative continues with the uninformed. Even in the will he request a trade it is because he is too competitive to keep putting up with this in terms of the narrative with the people that know.
 
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But only fans are saying that, nobody that actually matter in the organization, teammates, or plugged in people around the league has ever indicated that Larkin is anything but a great person and leader. Yet this narrative continues with the uninformed. Even in the will he request a trade it is because he is too competitive to keep putting up with this in terms of the narrative with the people that know.
Can you point to where anyone has said Larkin is a good leader? Being a great person is completely irrelevant. I’m sure he’s a great guy.
 
Talbot did steal games for the Wings, particularly in the first half of the season. Overall the goaltending hasn't been Vezina caliber with the Husso experiment and Lyon faltering, but more often than not it was good enough to win.

I'd put team defense, secondary scoring, and definitely the PK as issues well ahead of goaltending.
He was dead last in PK save percentage, he is a big reason it sucks. Lyon isn't a solid NHL goaltender he is quad-A goalie. Now that is on Yzerman, but I think our goalies are an issue. While the D is bad, we often don't get the crucial save or spit the bit late in games as a result. Talbot did that some I agree but I think we got poor goaltending this season for pretty substantial stretches. Especially when McLellan opened up Lalonde's protect the goalie at all costs system.
 
Can you point to where anyone has said Larkin is a good leader? Being a great person is completely irrelevant. I’m sure he’s a great guy.
Literally everyone associated with USA hockey and U of M hockey. Hellybuyck said it after the Canada game in the four nations a few months ago. The summer workout guys do that because he put that group together with the Hughes boys etc.

Can you point to the player that left that said he wasn't? That usually exists with the players people are running afterwards.

I have never heard an example given by the Larkin is bad at this crowd. Not an ex-teammate or friend of a friend.
 
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He was dead last in PK save percentage, he is a big reason it sucks. Lyon isn't a solid NHL goaltender he is quad-A goalie. Now that is on Yzerman, but I think our goalies are an issue. While the D is bad, we often don't get the crucial save or spit the bit late in games as a result. Talbot did that some I agree but I think we got poor goaltending this season for pretty substantial stretches. Especially when McLellan opened up Lalonde's protect the goalie at all costs system.

Sure but you could flip that the other way too. The Wings had a historically bad PK % so it's not surprising Talbot has a bad PK %. It's not like he was regularly letting in soft goals on penalty kills. It was more often the Wings coverage and strategy sucked. Talbot made plenty of huge saves in wins and losses.

Hopefully with him, Mrazek as a backup and bringing in Cossa, that position will improve, even if only because it removes Husso and Lyon.

Of the issues on this team, I don't see goaltending as top 3. It was good enough for the Wings to be a playoff team.
 
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If you made nine million dollars and were the CFO of the company and were crying about it, then yes, you were not fit for the CFO role. Larkin is not fit for the captain role if his reaction to 7 years of losing is crying and whining as opposed to saying “lets f***ing go, enough is enough, it’s our time to shine.”
That's kinda a funny analogy because CFOs do quit all the time if there's no path to profitability. It ruins your reputation working for a bad company.

I quit for a different reason, I was stuck in a 4th line role while getting paid like a 1st line center (at the company at least), lol. Now I'm like a second line winger getting paid 3rd line money in terms of engineering. But I'm in a role that makes a bigger difference, so I'm happy about it.

Back to the subject, let's say Dylan isn't fit to be captain, what's your solution? I've already given my solution.... keep Dylan, sign Marner.
 
Sure but you could flip that the other way too. The Wings had a historically bad PK % so it's not surprising Talbot has a bad PK %. It's not like he was regularly letting in soft goals on penalty kills. It was more often the Wings coverage and strategy sucked. Talbot made plenty of huge saves in wins and losses.

Hopefully with him, Mrazek as a backup and bringing in Cossa, that position will improve, even if only because it removes Husso and Lyon.

Of the issues on this team, I don't see goaltending as top 3. It was good enough for the Wings to be a playoff team.
I mean Mickey and Ken my whole life, but who is the most important part of the penalty kill? We did two systems. I can go defense is our biggest issue and I agree that impacts the goalie. I think our depth is a problem. We have not had good goaltending though throughout this period. I think the biggest difference in Yzerman in Tampa and here at the beginning is Husso was not Bishop and he didn't flop Roloson either. Talbot just had his third worst save percentage on a year of his career.

I am excited for Cossa and I do think Mrazek can steal games though he is woefully inconsistent. Our goalies should be marginally better net year. I think Talbot is the backup not the other way around. Though both guys will miss time and we will see Cossa in my opinion next year.
 
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Actually next year will be #7, lol. (I did say next season). This year was 6. He started in 2019.
Nope. That is not what you said. In the first couple of posts you mentioned 7 years, it could be interpreted that way, but not in the post below, as it is in past tense, and even says that next year will be "year #8 without playoffs for Stevie".

Yeah, Stevie's been here 7 freakin years. Of course it's better, it's not good enough. Next year will be year #8 without playoffs for Stevie unless he goes big in UFA.
 
Nope. That is not what you said. In the first couple of posts you mentioned 7 years, it could be interpreted that way, but not in the post below, as it is in past tense, and even says that next year will be "year #8 without playoffs for Stevie".

I get it, I was wrong. But so were you, because you said 6, lol.

Next year is his 7th. Doesn't really matter because the team is setting NHL records for futility. I want to see what Stevie does in free agency, and if it's more Motte, Guses, Watsons, and Tanks, then I want him fired. I'm willing to see what he does this summer before I get really vocal.
 
I get it, I was wrong. But so were you, because you said 6, lol.

Next year is his 7th. Doesn't really matter because the team is setting NHL records for futility. I want to see what Stevie does in free agency, and if it's more Motte, Guses, Watsons, and Tanks, then I want him fired. I'm willing to see what he does this summer before I get really vocal.
He has been here 6 years, plus a few days.

I agree that his free agent signings haven't been good, especially last summer, but truth be told, there wasn't much to choose from, and those I wanted got signed to deals that doesn't fit the timeline. We didn't have the money either.

My biggest problem isn't that he signed players like Copp, Compher, Tank, Gus, Petry, Holl, and the list goes on… my problem is that he signed too damn many of them.

I am hoping Kane comes back, and we get a quality signing on D and on F. If we can trade a couple of players at retention, we should have a lot of money to play with. Just don't want any bottom 6Fs or bottom 2 Ds.
 
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That's kinda a funny analogy because CFOs do quit all the time if there's no path to profitability. It ruins your reputation working for a bad company.

I quit for a different reason, I was stuck in a 4th line role while getting paid like a 1st line center (at the company at least), lol. Now I'm like a second line winger getting paid 3rd line money in terms of engineering. But I'm in a role that makes a bigger difference, so I'm happy about it.

Back to the subject, let's say Dylan isn't fit to be captain, what's your solution? I've already given my solution.... keep Dylan, sign Marner.
They kept Dylan, brought in Raymond, brought in Seider, team was 8’points clear of the last playoff spot in late February. Then they collapsed in no small part due to Larkin’s terrible play. The lack of talent is why this team isn’t a contender or serious threat, but it is by no means the reason they missed the playoffs instead of Montreal. The Habs have no more talent than us. Debrincat = Caufield, Kasper and Raymond >> Laine and Slafkovsky, Seider = Hutson on overall impact. If Larkin maintained his game and could = Suzuki, we’d be in.

A lack of “talent” on the team is also because of Larkin. The Habs captain decided he would take his game to that extra gear and got his team into the playoffs. It seems like our captain decided to cry about it instead.

Yzerman can sign Marner and it won’t make any difference if this team goes on another losing streak and Larkin is sulking and moping again.
 
They kept Dylan, brought in Raymond, brought in Seider, team was 8’points clear of the last playoff spot in late February. Then they collapsed in no small part due to Larkin’s terrible play. The lack of talent is why this team isn’t a contender or serious threat, but it is by no means the reason they missed the playoffs instead of Montreal. The Habs have no more talent than us. Debrincat = Caufield, Kasper and Raymond >> Laine and Slafkovsky, Seider = Hutson on overall impact. If Larkin maintained his game and could = Suzuki, we’d be in.

A lack of “talent” on the team is also because of Larkin. The Habs captain decided he would take his game to that extra gear and got his team into the playoffs. It seems like our captain decided to cry about it instead.

Yzerman can sign Marner and it won’t make any difference if this team goes on another losing streak and Larkin is sulking and moping again.
Did Larkin make Talbot post a .879 sv % for the month of march and go 1-5?

Is he a wizard?
 
For this Red Wings team to be comfortably in the playoffs we needed just one player of DeBrincat caliber. Could Yzerman get one on the market? Absolutely yes. He just needed to sell our farm, eg by trading Lombardi, Danielson, and Wallinder.

I would even name that player, it is Kadri, for example and his contract coming along.

Will be happy with such a playoff appearance?

It didn’t cost the farm to get DeBrincat so stop right there.

Second, Kadri and his contract is still way better than Tank or Compher and their contracts. I’d happily take him from Calgary.
 
Did Larkin make Talbot post a .879 sv % for the month of march and go 1-5?

Is he a wizard?
If you think goaltending was the reason we lost most games in March you weren’t watching.

They lost a few they should have won but they also played like absolute dog water for most of the month.

I’m sure Talbot didn’t make Larkin score 9 pts in 15 games for his worst stretch of the season in March either, did he?
 
It didn’t cost the farm to get DeBrincat so stop right there.
Cat wanted to come here and only here, Ottawa didn't have a choice. In the open market, it's pure cattle auction. Highest bidder wins. So we better hope that Kyle Connor gets homesick real soon, otherwise big name trades ain't happening any time soon. Without something valuable going to other direction and direct quote was "we ain't there yet".
 
If you think goaltending was the reason we lost most games in March you weren’t watching.

They lost a few they should have won but they also played like absolute dog water for most of the month.

I’m sure Talbot didn’t make Larkin score 9 pts in 15 games for his worst stretch of the season in March either, did he?

Blaming Larkin for March is forgetting there’s 22 other players on the roster.

Tank - 6 points
Compher - 4 points
Gus - 1 point
Berggren - 1 point in 9 games
Rasmussen - 2 points
Motte - 3 points
Chiarot - 2 points
Smith - 2 points
Shine - 0 points in 5 games
Seider - 4 points
Raymond - 10 points
Talbot - 1-5 with 3 performances that were sub .860
Lyon - 1-3 with 3 performances sub .860

Scoring was bad in March but goaltending was pathetic.

These 5 played like they gave a shit in March
Kane - 17 points
Kasper - 7 points
DeBrincat - 11 points
Edvinsson - 6 points
Johansson - 2 points

Larkin for sure shares a lot of the blame , but if this team can’t survive him going cold or being injured for a handful of games then that’s on the GM for not building a deeper team.
 

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