GDT: Your New Jersey Devils (5-2-0, 10 Pts) vs. Washington Capitals (2-1-0, 4 Pts), 7 PM, MSGSN2

[Whaddagoal]

Completely different topic of discussion but an observation of mine that I wonder if anyone agrees with. I feel like Tatar is over stickhandling right now and it’s limiting him.

I swear every shift I see him win a battle, beat a guy, or get himself into a good spot. And just when it looks like he’s done really well he decides to stick handle an extra time or two or make a move and it completely ruins it.

I kinda see your point, I noticed more he stick handles his way out of a good ozone spot, if not lose the puck. He sneaks his way into a good area and dispy spins right out of it. Slightly different details but I do see what you are saying.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

That is often the case, but not always the case. He didn't elevate Palms. Shara was better with Zajac. No one likes Timo with Hughes.

Styles and chemistry are important.

Heck Haula seems to have a more positive effect on Hughes then vice versa.

As I’ve said many times here Jack Hughes at his best and dominant is free wheeling flying around, weaving and curling. Probably more so than any other player in the world.

I think it takes a great deal of quickness, maneuverability, IQ and puck skills to keep up with just getting yourself into available positions and even taking his passes which are often far from perfect and on the tape. Perhaps why Bratt is the only one who’s seemed to thrive alongside him.

 

[Saint Beaurivage]

Half the problem with Hughes is whoever he dishes the puck off to never finishes (Meier,Bratt).

 

[PanniniClaus]

Is Casey heading for the press box soon? 7 plus tonight.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Half the problem with Hughes is whoever he dishes the puck off to never finishes (Meier,Bratt).

Unfortunately this might be like 1/10th of the problem with him right now. I wish it was half the problem because it wouldn’t be as big of a problem and he’d probably have a least a couple more points.

Is Casey heading for the press box soon? 7 plus tonight.

I think so. Some may not want that but he has some marinating and growing to do and there’s no need to rush him.

Nemec is also starting to play much better in mine and clearly Keefe’s opinion. Also has more track record and deserve’s a little bit of benefit of doubt.

 

[NJDevs26]

Not sure it’s nearly this simple. I think the style of play he thrives in makes it more difficult to fit into more strict structures. He’s best when he’s free wheeling flying around.

And I think that's an excuse, especially when he's been screwing up simple decisions like passing when he should shoot and vice-versa. That's the kind of stuff that should be second nature to him and not reliant on a system vs. being 'freewheeling'.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I also feel like they might have been testing Kovacevic on the right side tonight in preparation for Pesce coming back. Just to see how he handles it and if it’s an option.

And I think that's an excuse, especially when he's been screwing up simple decisions like passing when he should shoot and vice-versa. That's the kind of stuff that should be second nature to him and not reliant on a system vs. being 'freewheeling'.

Oh I don’t disagree with that at all. The system isn’t the main problem right now but I do think he will probably always thrive much more in a less structured system or least under a coach that allows him to free wheel moreso.

 

[devilsblood]

As I’ve said many times here Jack Hughes at his best and dominant is free wheeling flying around, weaving and curling. Probably more so than any other player in the world.

I think it takes a great deal of quickness, maneuverability, IQ and puck skills to keep up with just getting yourself into available positions and even taking his passes which are often far from perfect and on the tape. Perhaps why Bratt is the only one who’s seemed to thrive alongside him.

He'll also thread unexpected, high heat passes through a ton of traffic. Very difficult for the receiver of these passes to onetime or catch and quickly release a shot.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Cotter with them was really bad tonight. They didn't even register a CF. Granted part of that was Jack was really bad in the first and Bratt being under the weather but it was not working and the 4th line with Palat was miserable yet again. At this point I think you have to try Palat with Nico. That's the one place he hasn't been tried and he's already dragged down the 3 other lines. With how Nico is going if Palat manages to drag him down then he's truly cooked.

You're probably right that Palat with Nico. I would just hate subjecting Nico to having an anchor on his line, but that 4th line cannot continue being trotted out. I really didn't think we'd reach this point with Palat so early into this season.

 

[devilsblood]

I also feel like they might have been testing Kovacevic on the right side tonight in preparation for Pesce coming back. Just to see how he handles it and if it’s an option.


Oh I don’t disagree with that at all. The system isn’t the main problem right now but I do think he will probably always thrive much more in a less structured system or least under a coach that allows him to free wheel moreso.

This I don't know. He's young. He can adapt if he is willing.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

You're probably right that Palat with Nico. I would just hate subjecting Nico to having an anchor on his line, but that 4th line cannot continue being trotted out. I really didn't think we'd reach this point with Palat so early into this season.

Nico’s been subjected to anchors before and always seems to drag the line along no matter who he’s with. One of the best things about him.

 

[devilsblood]

You're probably right that Palat with Nico. I would just hate subjecting Nico to having an anchor on his line, but that 4th line cannot continue being trotted out. I really didn't think we'd reach this point with Palat so early into this season.

Nico and Palat were very good last year though. It's worth a look.

Especially since Cotter looks like may be more good bottom 6 guy then a legit top 6 guy.

I'd tag the "small sample" label on this statement but his career thus far supports that idea.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

This I don't know. He's young. He can adapt if he is willing.

He can adapt and improve but I think it’s just the way he plays to work with the skillset he has. I don’t think it’s just a mindset thing. It’s part of the freewheeling kind of game he thrives under. He’s at his best when he’s flying around using his skating. That’s a lot harder to do when you’re playing more structured hockey especially considering he’s not a super explosive skater like Mcdavid.

 

[Hisch13r]

A huge problem with Jack right now is that he's simply not a scoring threat. When he was at his best from Christmas 2021 through the end of 22-23 he was a massive scoring threat because he was a shot and chance generating machine.

He was averaging around 11 shots/60 and 1.08 ixG/60. Those marks were good enough for 9th and 12th in the league. This year his shot rate is down to 7.64 with an abysmal 0.38 ixG/60. Only Lazar has a lower ixG/60. Of 379 forwards with 30 minutes played he ranks 139th among forwards in shot rate and his ixG/60 is down at 306th.

His iSCF/60 was 20th in the league at 10.81. Now he's down at 5.6 tied with Nate. He's 267th league wide. For iHDCF he was at 4.22 and 70th. Now he's down at 1.02 which is the worst among our forwards and 328th in the league.

Jack needs to be a scoring threat to be dominant and right now he's a complete afterthought as a scoring threat.

You're probably right that Palat with Nico. I would just hate subjecting Nico to having an anchor on his line, but that 4th line cannot continue being trotted out. I really didn't think we'd reach this point with Palat so early into this season.

Shit I didn't think we'd ever reach with level with Palat.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

A huge problem with Jack right now is that he's simply not a scoring threat. When he was at his best from Christmas 2021 through the end of 22-23 he was a massive scoring threat because he was a shot and chance generating machine.

He was averaging around 11 shots/60 and 1.08 ixG/60. Those marks were good enough for 9th and 12th in the league. This year his shot rate is down to 7.64 with an abysmal 0.38 ixG/60. Only Lazar has a lower ixG/60. Of 379 forwards with 30 minutes played he ranks 139th among forwards in shot rate and his ixG/60 is down at 306th.

His iSCF/60 was 20th in the league at 10.81. Now he's down at 5.6 tied with Nate. He's 267th league wide. For iHDCF he was at 4.22 and 70th. Now he's down at 1.02 which is the worst among our forwards and 328th in the league.

Jack needs to be a scoring threat to be dominant and right now he's a complete afterthought as a scoring threat.

Not to be too repetitive. But IMO opinion it all stems from his skating. When he’s skating well he’s pushing defenders back, creating more space for himself and in turn giving himself more space and opportunities to shoot.

 

[devilsblood]

Cotter to me seems pretty similar to Meier.

Big fast physical north south skating wingers with puck skills who want to shoot the puck. That makes them the play drivers for their lines. Meier is the higher end version, but their games look similar to me.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Cotter to me seems pretty similar to Meier.

Big fast physical north south skating wingers with puck skills who want to shoot the puck. That makes them the play drivers for their lines. Meier is the higher end version, but their games look similar to me.

Meier is also making about 8M more.

Despite the improvement Meier really should be giving us more and be more dominant at times for an 8.8M winger

There should be those moments or games like with Nico tonight where you’re like wow this guys good.

 

[Triumph]

A huge problem with Jack right now is that he's simply not a scoring threat. When he was at his best from Christmas 2021 through the end of 22-23 he was a massive scoring threat because he was a shot and chance generating machine.

He was averaging around 11 shots/60 and 1.08 ixG/60. Those marks were good enough for 9th and 12th in the league. This year his shot rate is down to 7.64 with an abysmal 0.38 ixG/60. Only Lazar has a lower ixG/60. Of 379 forwards with 30 minutes played he ranks 139th among forwards in shot rate and his ixG/60 is down at 306th.

His iSCF/60 was 20th in the league at 10.81. Now he's down at 5.6 tied with Nate. He's 267th league wide. For iHDCF he was at 4.22 and 70th. Now he's down at 1.02 which is the worst among our forwards and 328th in the league.

Jack needs to be a scoring threat to be dominant and right now he's a complete afterthought as a scoring threat.

I wonder if part of the issue with Jack 5v5 is that Keefe is handing his line a ton of offensive zone starts which to me is the opposite of what you want - Jack isn't that great at creating offense from there, where he excels is creating offense off the rush. Jack's been committed to defense and not flying the zone, etc. and so this is limiting some of his rush offense also.

Keefe was trying out the Hughes line with Casey-Nemec as a 5 man unit but that went away pretty quick.

 

[Hisch13r]

Meier is also making about 8M more.

Despite the improvement Meier really should be giving us more and be more dominant at times for an 8.8M winger

There should be those moments or games like with Nico tonight where you’re like wow this guys good.

He's at least around a PPG and he's got a strong xG% but yeah I visually want to see more from him. I'd also like to see his shot rate rise a bit. It's not like Jack where it's fallen off a cliff but I still would like to see him more around his last 2 years in SJ. 5v5 down from 12.37 to 10.04. AS 13.36 to 11.9.

 

[Hisch13r]

I wonder if part of the issue with Jack 5v5 is that Keefe is handing his line a ton of offensive zone starts which to me is the opposite of what you want - Jack isn't that great at creating offense from there, where he excels is creating offense off the rush. Jack's been committed to defense and not flying the zone, etc. and so this is limiting some of his rush offense also.

Keefe was trying out the Hughes line with Casey-Nemec as a 5 man unit but that went away pretty quick.

Yeah I think you could try changing up his deployment to get him going more off the rush. Another thing is I'd probably also be taking Bratt off his line for now until he gets it going again. Let him fully be the guy again rather than what he had with both Timo/Bratt and now just Bratt. Like maybe even try giving him both Palat and Noesen. 2 guys that will do that hard work (Palat's kind of struggling to even do that stuff right now though) but that won't be much help for him in transition. Giving him Palat might be a bit too much to try and carry though given he doesn't even look like an NHLer

 

[My3Sons]

You're probably right that Palat with Nico. I would just hate subjecting Nico to having an anchor on his line, but that 4th line cannot continue being trotted out. I really didn't think we'd reach this point with Palat so early into this season.

If Palat cannot play on a fourth line you expect him to be better with Hischier with all that extra responsibility and hard matchups? Just give Palat a game off and n try him again on the fourth line when he’s rested and done some video work.

 

[Hisch13r]

If Palat cannot play on a fourth line you expect him to be better with Hischier with all that extra responsibility and hard matchups? Just give Palat a game off and n try him again on the fourth line when he’s rested and done some video work.

That 4th line has been so bad with Palat that I’d rather try something else rather than go right back to it

 

[Satans Hockey]

Both my teams tonight made big come backs just to lose anyway, oh well. On to the next one.

 

[Bleedred]

Still happy with a point. We were horrible tonight. I don’t know how we got a point after going down 2 goals again after the first time we tied it.

I’m glad there’s a much needed two days before the next game. This schedule has been insane since we got back from Prague. We usually have an unofficial bye week in October, rather than ending up having played twice as many games as some teams in the first two weeks of the season.

We do have four days in a row without a game during the third week of November.

 

[Peter Sidorkiewicz]

I think Huala is going to be moved back with Jack. They tried Cotter today with Jack and it didn't work. Huala is next in line for Keefe to try.

Cotter can play center. Let's see him on 3rd line.

Huala-Hughes-Bratt
Meier-Hischier-Mercer
Tatar-Cotter-Noesen
Palat-Lazar-Bastian