Your biggest "Blew it" player predictions.

[dali]

You can make an argument that Greene isn't an offensive defenseman, but his pp stats don't really back up that argument. He hasn't really been relied on the pp since 2009-2010 for the obvious reasons.

2009-2010: 78 games, total 15 points and 2:35 atoi per game on the man advantage.

2010-2011: 82 games, total 6 points and 1:16 atoi per game on the man advantage.

2011-2012: 56 games, total 4 points and 0:26 atoi per game on the man advantage.

2012-2013: 48 games, total 6 points and 1:56 atoi per game on the man advantage.

 

[New Jersey Devils]

Tyler Eckford. I know he was a late round pick but for some reason I thought if the devils game him a real shot he would have been as good as PMart.

 

[billingtons ghost]

ah the old "I'm not even bothering with that" defense.

got it.

also I enjoy you saying "he could only manage" 56 games in 11-12, acting like he was a healthy scratch and didn't have a serious injury.

Andy Greene is way overrated on these boards. He's a good Dman and he had a very good year playing within the dimensions of his game which are limited.

Here's a short list
Blackhawks
Rangers
Bruins
Carolina (he might be a 4.)
Detroit
Edmonton (but probably because they are so high on the Schultzs)
Kings
Habs
Ottawa
Philly, with the addition of Streit, but it is arguable who is better - personally I think Greene.
Phoenix
Pitt
San Jose
Blues
Tampa
Vancouver
Winnipeg

I think Andy Greene is at best a 4 on all of the above teams and most likely plays 5.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

Rod Pelley being a poorer mans John Madden! Zharkov being a sleeper, and not quite what the op was asking for but saying with 100% certainly I my soul that Parise would not bolt for money. That ended my iron clad "lock" predictions.

 

[Devils Trap]

Andy Greene is way overrated on these boards. He's a good Dman and he had a very good year playing within the dimensions of his game which are limited.

Here's a short list
Blackhawks
Rangers
Bruins
Carolina (he might be a 4.)
Detroit
Edmonton (but probably because they are so high on the Schultzs)
Kings
Habs
Ottawa
Philly, with the addition of Streit, but it is arguable who is better - personally I think Greene.
Phoenix
Pitt
San Jose
Blues
Tampa
Vancouver
Winnipeg

I think Andy Greene is at best a 4 on all of the above teams and most likely plays 5.

Greene would instantly become Philly's best defenseman

If you think 4th... You dont watch the same game I do

Almost half your list is laughable to be honest. Bolded are all teams that You are way off. Some others are close, so I decided not to. Even on the Rangers he would be their 3. McD and Staal are better then him, but I would take him over Girardi, MDZ,Moore easily.

 

[JimEIV]

Greene should be a 3 or 4 on good team in my opinion....that fact the is the #1 speaks volumes about this defense. It's not very good...Salvador and Volchenkov are both 6th defensemen...Zidlicky isn't much above a 6 himself...on good team Zidlicky would be a bottom pairing PP specialist.

We all have great hope for Larsson, I do too, but what he's shown so far has not been great when you compare him to any regular run of mill defenseman he has been sub par. He clearly isn't better than Fayne and Fayne should be a 4/5....So in my estimation at least 4/6 of the defensemen we put out last season are bottom pairing guys.

 

[BenedictGomez]

I enjoy you saying "he could only manage" 56 games in 11-12, acting like he was a healthy scratch and didn't have a serious injury.

Injuries and player durability, while unfortunate, are part of the game. Greene's been injured a few times in his relatively short career that have cost him a bunch of games. Not his fault, but.......

You can make an argument that Greene isn't an offensive defenseman, but his pp stats don't really back up that argument. He hasn't really been relied on the pp since 2009-2010 for the obvious reasons.

2009-2010: 78 games, total 15 points and 2:35 atoi per game on the man advantage.

2010-2011: 82 games, total 6 points and 1:16 atoi per game on the man advantage.

2011-2012: 56 games, total 4 points and 0:26 atoi per game on the man advantage.

2012-2013: 48 games, total 6 points and 1:56 atoi per game on the man advantage.

1:56 per game is a fair bit of PP time. Zidlicky joining the team hurt Greene in that regard, but Greene was still #2 among Devils defense in PowerPlay TOI.

1:16 isnt something to be disregard either, that was #1 on the Devils for all defenseman that year.

The NHL only averages something like 7 Powerplays per game, and remember that's for both teams, and it also includes those little 10 second and 1:10 abbreviated powerplays.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

Greene would easily be top 4 d-man on Tampa, Carolina, Winnipeg, Philly, and Edmonton. Probably Pittsburgh as well.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Andy Greene would be Philly's #1 Dman

among some other teams on that list.

hilarious.

 

[JimEIV]

Greene would easily be top 4 d-man on Tampa, Carolina, Winnipeg, Philly, and Edmonton. Probably Pittsburgh as well.

So top 4 on mostly teams that miss the playoffs? Not really a great argument for Greene, wouldn't you say?

Don't get me wrong here, I like Greene and I do think he is underrated, that being said he shouldn't be a teams best defenseman.

 

[BenedictGomez]

on the Rangers he would be their 3. McD and Staal are better then him, but I would take him over Girardi, MDZ,Moore easily.

MDZ is clearly > Andy Greene, and he's ONLY 23 years old!

Girardi played 26+ minutes per game last year AND the year before; most on the entire team. Torts trusted him more than anyone and beat the guy like a rented mule. If Greene is better than him, I dont think anyone can objectively say it's by much.

Greene would be a #5 on the Rangers, IMO. A #4 if you honestly believe he's better than Girardi I suppose.

 

[Devils Trap]

MDZ is clearly > Andy Greene, and he's ONLY 23 years old!

Girardi played 26+ minutes per game last year AND the year before; most on the entire team. Torts trusted him more than anyone and beat the guy like a rented mule. If Greene is better than him, I dont think anyone can objectively say it's by much.

Greene would be a #5 on the Rangers, IMO. A #4 if you honestly believe he's better than Girardi I suppose.

MDZ is awful. We killed him in the playoffs 2 years ago and this year in the regular season. He has offensive ability but isnt good in his own zone at all

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Greene is better than Michael Del Zotto.

 

[BenedictGomez]

So top 4 on mostly teams that miss the playoffs? Not really a great argument for Greene, wouldn't you say?

Hence my "Tallest Midget Syndrome" example.

Happens with forwards too. That guy who has a big year on a weak team that doesnt score much, so he has to be "the guy" or one of the top offensive options, laden with PP time etc... Then he signs with a good offensive team in the offseason and his goal/point production drops off.

 

[It Takes 2 To Tango]

Hence my "Tallest Midget Syndrome" example.

Happens with forwards too. That guy who has a big year on a weak team that doesnt score much, so he has to be "the guy" or one of the top offensive options, laden with PP time etc... Then he signs with a good offensive team in the offseason and his goal/point production drops off.

How about Greene's play during the 2012 playoff run? He was fabulous.

 

[apice3*]

Andy Greene is way overrated on these boards. He's a good Dman and he had a very good year playing within the dimensions of his game which are limited.

Here's a short list
Blackhawks
Rangers
Bruins
Carolina (he might be a 4.)
Detroit
Edmonton (but probably because they are so high on the Schultzs)
Kings
Habs
Ottawa
Philly, with the addition of Streit, but it is arguable who is better - personally I think Greene.
Phoenix
Pitt
San Jose
Blues
Tampa
Vancouver
Winnipeg

I think Andy Greene is at best a 4 on all of the above teams and most likely plays 5.

Oh my.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Andy Greene would be Philly's #1 Dman

among some other teams on that list.

hilarious.

Right, just because you said so - and you are so objective.

Streit only had 10 more points than him in one of his worst years and one of Greene's best. Timmonen had 13 more points. Schenn, despite all of his shortcomings would play over Greene. Like I said in my post, he'd likely play 4 for them.

But, that's the weakest team on the list.

I'll take it that the non-bolded teams you agree with. (and btw, he's not better than Girardi and has less upside than MDZ if that kid ever gets his head straight.) That's 7 of 30 teams that he's 5/6.
Go point out where I'm wrong with these others.

The others, I thought he'd play 4 for, but you say
Carolina: This I will concede, but Pitkanen and Gleason are arguably better.
San Jose: This one I might concede, but I think Boyle, Vlasic and Demers are better and Stuart is decent.
Pitt: No way is he top 4. Who is he better than? Orpik? Martin? Letang? Scuderi? Niskanen almost had the same amount of points this year.
Tampa: Carle is better. Hedman is better. Brewer, Salo and Ohlund are arguable.
Vancouver: Bieksa, and Edler are better. Garrison and his slapper is probably their best Dman.. Hamhuis arguable.
Winnipeg: Byfuglien? Enstrom, Bogosian. You are saying he is going to be #3 on this team? Who is he beating out? Clitsome had the same amount of points.

 

[Devils Trap]

Right, just because you said so - and you are so objective.

Streit only had 10 more points than him in one of his worst years and one of Greene's best. Timmonen had 13 more points. Schenn, despite all of his shortcomings would play over Greene. Like I said in my post, he'd likely play 4 for them.

But, that's the weakest team on the list.

I'll take it that the non-bolded teams you agree with. (and btw, he's not better than Girardi and has less upside than MDZ if that kid ever gets his head straight.) That's 7 of 30 teams that he's 5/6.
Go point out where I'm wrong with these others.

The others, I thought he'd play 4 for, but you say
Carolina: This I will concede, but Pitkanen and Gleason are arguably better.
San Jose: This one I might concede, but I think Boyle, Vlasic and Demers are better and Stuart is decent.
Pitt: No way is he top 4. Who is he better than? Orpik? Martin? Letang? Scuderi? Niskanen almost had the same amount of points this year.
Tampa: Carle is better. Hedman is better. Brewer, Salo and Ohlund are arguable.
Vancouver: Bieksa, and Edler are better. Garrison and his slapper is probably their best Dman.. Hamhuis arguable.
Winnipeg: Byfuglien? Enstrom, Bogosian. You are saying he is going to be #3 on this team? Who is he beating out? Clitsome had the same amount of points.

Points are how we look at Dmen right ???

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

ah we are using points to determine who is the better DMan, I see.

I will bow out of this if thats the case because its clear you are clueless as to the value of a defenseman.

 

[NJDevs26]

Injuries and player durability, while unfortunate, are part of the game. Greene's been injured a few times in his relatively short career that have cost him a bunch of games. Not his fault, but.......

A 'bunch' of games? He's missed four games - TOTAL - in three out of the last four seasons since becoming a regular. Missing 7.5 games a season over a four-year stretch makes one brittle I guess...

 

[billingtons ghost]

Oh my.

Pick it apart if you can.

I'm just saying that Greene is probably at best a 4 on about 12 of the 29 other NHL teams.

And no, points are not how we look at Dmen, especially if you are a shutdown D. And no, Andy isn't Zidlicky - but if I ask you if Greene or Streit start as the 6th dman on the most all powerful team of all-time, who plays? Last year and all years prior it is a no-brainer and Streit gets the start, but as I said, I think Greene passed him this year because Streit has blown a tire. Timmonen has always been pretty solid in my eyes and I think Schenn might play over them.

The Philly, along with Carolina are by far the two weakest that I listed. They are reaches for sure.

The Habs are a tough one to gauge for sure, because after Subban you've got Markov who's always hurt, Gorges, and the kids Emelin and Diaz - so Greene might slot in there at 3 as well.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

Right, just because you said so - and you are so objective.

Streit only had 10 more points than him in one of his worst years and one of Greene's best. Timmonen had 13 more points. Schenn, despite all of his shortcomings would play over Greene. Like I said in my post, he'd likely play 4 for them.

But, that's the weakest team on the list.

I'll take it that the non-bolded teams you agree with. (and btw, he's not better than Girardi and has less upside than MDZ if that kid ever gets his head straight.) That's 7 of 30 teams that he's 5/6.
Go point out where I'm wrong with these others.

The others, I thought he'd play 4 for, but you say
Carolina: This I will concede, but Pitkanen and Gleason are arguably better.
San Jose: This one I might concede, but I think Boyle, Vlasic and Demers are better and Stuart is decent.
Pitt: No way is he top 4. Who is he better than? Orpik? Martin? Letang? Scuderi? Niskanen almost had the same amount of points this year.
Tampa: Carle is better. Hedman is better. Brewer, Salo and Ohlund are arguable.
Vancouver: Bieksa, and Edler are better. Garrison and his slapper is probably their best Dman.. Hamhuis arguable.
Winnipeg: Byfuglien? Enstrom, Bogosian. You are saying he is going to be #3 on this team? Who is he beating out? Clitsome had the same amount of points.

Matt Carle, Grant Clitsome, Jason Garrison and Matt Niskanen are not better defensemen than Andy Greene. Points don't signify who a better player is.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Andy Greene is way better than Mark Streit, especially at this point in their careers. its not really close. I don't know why you continually bring that up.

 

[billingtons ghost]

ah we are using points to determine who is the better DMan, I see.

I will bow out of this if thats the case because its clear you are clueless as to the value of a defenseman.

Is Greene purely a physical shutdown D? Is his value determined solely by his D play? I thought he was our best offensive option according to all the folks who wanted Zids to walk.

The guy is a nice versatile Dman, but points should factor a bit into the equation.

I mention guys like Bieksa on the list who get points on the PP but are really only there for intimidation.

So - no, some of the guys I would play before him simply because of offensive output and point production. Others I don't.

It's not like I'm saying Gonchar should start over him.

 

[NJDevs26]

Greene-Streit is the perfect prism for how some defensemen get overrated because of point production. I'm not saying point production out of D isn't important and every team needs a threat or two from the blueline, but after all the primary job description is playing DEFENSE. Saying someone's better on the blueline primarily because of point production is like saying Zajac's a better forward than Malkin because of backchecking.