Yeah Sullivan Sucks, but Dubas needs to be talked about too...

[BusinessGoose]

Do you just hate enjoying sports? All that's missing is the Cleveland Browns and maybe the Washington Wizzards.

It's gotta be me
I'm the common denominator

 

[eXile3]

Can argue all day between who was worse between Dubas and Hextall but there’s no way to spin the McCann handling as anything less than another unforced error that had a meaningful impact to get us where we are.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah, all told, JR ran a much better shop than I gave him credit for at the time, even if he made some dumb decisions. More precisely he absolutely did not botch the Vegas expansion draft and brought in 2 Cups.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, all told, JR ran a much better shop than I gave him credit for at the time, even if he made some dumb decisions. More precisely he absolutely did not botch the Vegas expansion draft and brought in 2 Cups.

I think a thing JR didn't get enough credit for is how he was able to consistently add young talent to the team, even though their prospect pool stunk. JR constantly added guys like Kapanen, McCann, Marino, Pettersson and such to the NHL team and got significant contributions out of young players. Hextall actively traded away young players on their roster and Dubas hasn't added any young players either.

I have a feeling that this team would still be a playoff team had JR never left, probably not a great one but still a playoff team. He would have found out ways to add young talent to the NHL team, even if the deals would have been stupid.

 

[Pens x]

I think a thing JR didn't get enough credit for is how he was able to consistently add young talent to the team, even though their prospect pool stunk. JR constantly added guys like Kapanen, McCann, Marino, Pettersson and such to the NHL team and got significant contributions out of young players. Hextall actively traded away young players on their roster and Dubas hasn't added any young players either.

I have a feeling that this team would still be a playoff team had JR never left, probably not a great one but still a playoff team. He would have found out ways to add young talent to the NHL team, even if the deals would have been stupid.

But but but we wouldnt have a plethora of mid draft picks in 2029.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah, all told, JR ran a much better shop than I gave him credit for at the time, even if he made some dumb decisions. More precisely he absolutely did not botch the Vegas expansion draft and brought in 2 Cups.

I mean to be fair, he paid Vegas a 2nd to take MAF.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean to be fair, he paid Vegas a 2nd to take MAF.

Yeah but it was a second, not a first to take on 10 million of anti-Sullivanrsque player in EK65.

I dunno, JR had some dumbass moments but Dubas has been far far worse so far. I underestimated how bad it could be.

Also since I am banned from the lineup thread for reasons unknown, might as well comment here: at the end of the day it doesn’t matter if Puustinen doesn’t work out, but keeping a cheap player like him up and waiving more expensive player to at least eat part of the cap hit would be the smarter move, given that all of our players and coaches are big nothings.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Yeah but it was a second, not a first to take on 10 million of anti-Sullivanrsque player in EK65.

I dunno, JR had some dumbass moments but Dubas has been far far worse so far. I underestimated how bad it could be.

Also since I am banned from the lineup thread for reasons unknown, might as well comment here: at the end of the day it doesn’t matter if Puustinen doesn’t work out, but keeping a cheap player like him up and waiving more expensive player to at least eat part of the cap hit would be the smarter move, given that all of our players and coaches are big nothings.

No doubt. If there is no difference between player X and player Y, you keep the cheaper one.
It's sad that obvious things can't be obvious with this clownshow of a franchise

 

[The Old Master]

No doubt. If there is no difference between player X and player Y, you keep the cheaper one.
It's sad that obvious things can't be obvious with this clownshow of a franchise

or younger one.

 

[edog37]

What is Hextall responsible for on this team?

The Rust and Rakell contracts? I mean, every team that tried to contend has those.

Outside of that he's really had no effect on the current roster and it's underachieving. It's just weird we have to default to blame him every single time someone says Dubas sucks.

Every issue with this team is on Dubas.

If anything the youth Hextall drafted seems to be decent enough to fill some of the gaps if Dubas had actually accurately built the team when he was hired instead of signing and trading for a bunch more 30 year olds and giving Graves and Jarry huge term.

He spent the first offseason doing that, & all of last year acquiring future talent. He brought in guys to immediately try & compete per ownership direction. That didn’t work so he quickly pivoted.

It’s very clear a lot of guys on this forum have never been through a down cycle with this team.

Dubas struck out swinging for the fences

And he needs to fix it.. Badly

But we haven't had a good GM since like first 3 years of JR

That’s precisely what he’s doing. Why do you think he’s stockpiling picks?

 

[HandshakeLine]

*Looks at the reg dates* oh yes, of course.

Anyhow, much more to a rebuild than "stockpiling picks" but we'll start with the basics I guess.

 

[BusinessGoose]

He spent the first offseason doing that, & all of last year acquiring future talent. He brought in guys to immediately try & compete per ownership direction. That didn’t work so he quickly pivoted.
That’s precisely what he’s doing. Why do you think he’s stockpiling picks?

To answer your underlined, I refer you to the bolded italicized

Dubas failed hard and is panicking

Hope he doesn't fail with the picks...

 

[Gurglesons]

He spent the first offseason doing that, & all of last year acquiring future talent. He brought in guys to immediately try & compete per ownership direction. That didn’t work so he quickly pivoted.

It’s very clear a lot of guys on this forum have never been through a down cycle with this team.


That’s precisely what he’s doing. Why do you think he’s stockpiling picks?

lol. Nobody posting here besides 60+ year olds probably has been through a down cycle.

If you want to act like 2002-2005 was bad, you dumb.

 

[SEALBound]

Yeah but it was a second, not a first to take on 10 million of anti-Sullivanrsque player in EK65.

I dunno, JR had some dumbass moments but Dubas has been far far worse so far. I underestimated how bad it could be.

Also since I am banned from the lineup thread for reasons unknown, might as well comment here: at the end of the day it doesn’t matter if Puustinen doesn’t work out, but keeping a cheap player like him up and waiving more expensive player to at least eat part of the cap hit would be the smarter move, given that all of our players and coaches are big nothings.

The theory behind the EK65 trade was valid, IMHO. It's just that EK65 sucks here now. It's like the Brassard trade. On paper, given what we gave up, solid decision to do it. Did it work out, lol, no. But I think those are two independent considerations.

The one JR trades that I hated were the Hagelin-Pearson-Gudbranson trade and the Kapanen trade. The Hags-Pear-Gud trade was him grasping at straws to find something that worked and none of it did. The Kapanen trade, he just flatout overpaid. A 1st for a guy who should have cost a 2nd. I liked Kapanen in theory/on-paper but that's another one that flat out didn't work out.

But you're right on your last line, keep Puustinen and waive Nieto. Stupid easy decision.

He spent the first offseason doing that, & all of last year acquiring future talent. He brought in guys to immediately try & compete per ownership direction. That didn’t work so he quickly pivoted.

It’s very clear a lot of guys on this forum have never been through a down cycle with this team.

Lol, I've been with them since 1991. I've been through damn near every type of happiness, disappointment, loathing, and hopium and copium imaginable.
If you can't look in the mirror and admit to yourself that you were once really excited about Robert Dome, are you even really a Penguins fan?

 

[HandshakeLine]

I have a Milan Kraft robopen jersey.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I have a Kent Manderville.

He was auctioned off as part of the "shirts off our backs" thing at the end of the 03 season.

He doesn't eat much, surprisingly.

 

[HandshakeLine]

lol. Nobody posting here besides 60+ year olds probably has been through a down cycle.

If you want to act like 2002-2005 was bad, you dumb.

2002 was great. Getting banned for misspelling Janne Laukkenen on the official Pens boards was great, Koltsov horsegirl, if you know, you know. I ended up coming here during the relocation horseshit because the official boards got increasingly less fun to post on. Time is a flat circle.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

2002 was great. Getting banned for misspelling Janne Laukkenen on the official Pens boards was great, Koltsov horsegirl, if you know, you know. I ended up coming here during the relocation horseshit because the official boards got increasingly less fun to post on. Time is a flat circle.

That place used to be a lot of fun lol

 

[HandshakeLine]

That place used to be a lot of fun lol

lol yeah so many of us were there. you, me, Jacob, I think Nubs was there too? Kirk I’m also pretty sure was there.

Maybe Big too?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

lol yeah so many of us were there. you, me, Jacob, I think Nubs was there too? Kirk I’m also pretty sure was there.

Maybe Big too?

Yes. All of those guys for sure along with MrKnowNothing (who still posts in the Pirates thread poor soul) and at least a few others I know I'm forgetting.

I was actually young back then. Hard to believe.

 

[SomeDude]

I find it odd that Hextall was crucified for paying a 2nd for Granlund while Dubas was praised for getting Bunting, a worse player with a worse contract, in the Jake deal.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yes. All of those guys for sure along with MrKnowNothing (who still posts in the Pirates thread poor soul) and at least a few others I know I'm forgetting.

I was actually young back then. Hard to believe.

I believe you’re still young, friend. But I also like a drink or two.

I find it odd that Hextall was crucified for paying a 2nd for Granlund while Dubas was praised for getting Bunting, a worse player with a worse contract, in the Jake deal.

It’s simply because local media likes Dubas and hated Hextall. Both deals were bad.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I believe you’re still young, friend. But I also like a drink or two.

It's weird because it never even occurs to me until I have the audacity to sleep with my head in a slightly weird position and am crippled for a week straight.

I find it odd that Hextall was crucified for paying a 2nd for Granlund while Dubas was praised for getting Bunting, a worse player with a worse contract, in the Jake deal.

I feel like this team has proclaimed at least half a dozen guys the new hotshot winger after a like 20 games sample size only to come back the very next season and completely shit down their own leg.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

I find it odd that Hextall was crucified for paying a 2nd for Granlund while Dubas was praised for getting Bunting, a worse player with a worse contract, in the Jake deal.

I reckon 95% of the Hextall hate comes from the fact that he is a Flyers icon and was a nutcase on the ice. The rest comes from what he actually did (which wasn't much other than to sign half crap UFAs to short term contracts to make it look like we was trying to compete).

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean the Carter deal was one of the worst deals of all time, so I get the Hextall hate. I just think people are actively ignoring Dubas’ f***ups so they don’t have to admit that they were wrong about him. At the same time, Hextall will probably have done better with some things than Dubas too, they’re eclipsed by the Carter contract (which people loved) and the Granlund trade.

I think it’s wild that when all is said and done Shero and JR are going to be two of the best Pens GMs of all time, simply because we like hiring terrible GMs apparently.