Yeah Sullivan Sucks, but Dubas needs to be talked about too...

[Andy99]

You guys need to stop torturing yourselves and lean into the absurdity. They aren't firing this guy for a while... they will at least let his current contract run it's course and are drawing some kind of wrongheaded line in the sand re: the Olympics even though frankly nobody these days really even gives a shit about the Olympics. As utterly insane and inexcusable as it is at every single level to allow a f***ing coach to take priority over all other things you HAVE to admit that it's so batshit that it's amusing in a gallows humor kinda way.

It’s a league-wide comedy at this point…I bet the refs are all putting in requests to referee pens games so they can get a good laugh at the product in the ice..

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

It’s a league-wide comedy at this point…I bet the refs are all putting in requests to referee pens games so they can get a good laugh at the product in the ice..

Imagine being opposing coaches/execs/etc trying to keep a straight face when paying the Penguins organization compliments in the media leading up to a match? I bet they make a fun little game out of it. See how many absurdly wrong things you can say on one press snippet:

"Well they have a great team over there... Kyle Dubas has really done a heck of a job putting that roster together. They have terrific goaltending, play with speed and structure, can score in bunches and are extremely hard to play against especially when they get the lead. On top of having two of the best red hot superstar players in the league they have a number of young talented players over there in big roles. Mike Sullivan continues to show why he's one of the best in the league."

...

"Holy shit I almost couldn't make it through that one lololol"

 

[Darren McCord]

Nothing says looking to win like giving Ryan Graves and Tristan Jarry 5+ years and filling out your middle six with old ass Eller and Reilly Smith.

But yes, it was Hextall's fault.

It's 2028. Dubas has cratered the Penguins. Sid and Malkin are retired. Our 1st round picks are floundering as Yager tears it up with Winnipeg.

"Can't believe Ron Hextall did this".

They are both at fault but dubas is the current GM failing this team.

I hate what Hextall did but his biggest mistake was not firing Sullivan. He gave Sullivan the Diety status.

Dubas is just doubling down. And he is th biggest issue now because he isn’t fixing it.

 

[Gurglesons]

They are both at fault but dubas is the current GM failing this team.

I hate what Hextall did but his biggest mistake was not firing Sullivan. He gave Sullivan the Diety status.

Dubas is just doubling down. And he is th biggest issue now because he isn’t fixing it.

What is Hextall responsible for on this team?

The Rust and Rakell contracts? I mean, every team that tried to contend has those.

Outside of that he's really had no effect on the current roster and it's underachieving. It's just weird we have to default to blame him every single time someone says Dubas sucks.

Every issue with this team is on Dubas.

If anything the youth Hextall drafted seems to be decent enough to fill some of the gaps if Dubas had actually accurately built the team when he was hired instead of signing and trading for a bunch more 30 year olds and giving Graves and Jarry huge term.

 

[Darren McCord]

What is Hextall responsible for on this team?

The Rust and Rakell contracts? I mean, every team that tried to contend has those.

Outside of that he's really had no effect on the current roster and it's underachieving. It's just weird we have to default to blame him every single time someone says Dubas sucks.

Every issue with this team is on Dubas.

If anything the youth Hextall drafted seems to be decent enough to fill some of the gaps if Dubas had actually accurately built the team when he was hired instead of signing and trading for a bunch more 30 year olds and giving Graves and Jarry huge term.

I never blamed Hextall for this current team. Your digging to much to have a reason to defend him. I said I hate what Hextall did and his biggest mistake was not firing Sullivan.

I then said Dubas is the current GM so the current state is his fault.

Hextall had the best opportunity to fire sullivan and he didn't that's on him. If he fired him, he would still be the gm.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I actually think Hextall would have been gone, regardless. The media circled the wagons against him very early and the narrative was and is that the TDL was the nail in the coffin (combined with his mishandling of the ED the year prior). I think some of the reason pixies "defends" Hextall is because of how obnoxious and obvious the narratives were at the time in order to run cover for Mike Sullivan and how hypocritical they look these days, especially.

I am by no means saying Hextall was any good... he wasn't. But in retrospect he was just a little preview of more awful GMing to come.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hextall just did nothing.

There's really nothing for me to hate about Hextall because he literally didn't make a single consequential move.

The only thing he possibly could've done was let Malkin and Letang walk. Many people said that would be a terrible idea, but in retrospect not having Letang on this team would at this point be beneficial.

Outside of that he just moved some chess pieces and made some somewhat decent draft picks.

The people complaining about Matheson, McCann, Marino, etc. are missing the forest for trees.

Those players were moved largely because of Mike Sullivan. But that doesn't fit the narrative that "Sully and Hextall were on completely different pages". Much like it doesn't fit the narrative that "Dubas can't fire Sully" for why Sully is still employed.

Even Evan Rodrigues was allegedly not re-signed because of his mistake in G7 against the Rangers according to local pundit Hunter Hodies.

 

[SEALBound]

Nothing says looking to win like giving Ryan Graves and Tristan Jarry 5+ years and filling out your middle six with old ass Eller and Reilly Smith.

But yes, it was Hextall's fault.

It's 2028. Dubas has cratered the Penguins. Sid and Malkin are retired. Our 1st round picks are floundering as Yager tears it up with Winnipeg.

"Can't believe Ron Hextall did this".

And you'd be happier than a pig in slop, I'm sure

Again, your obsession for defending, of all people, Rox Hextall is beyond weird at this point.

 

[Gurglesons]

And you'd be happier than a pig in slop, I'm sure

Again, your obsession for defending, of all people, Rox Hextall is beyond weird at this point.

You brought up Ron Hextall.

Your argument every time I criticize Dubas is "butttt, buttt Hextall!!!!?!"

This team is on Dubas. You're the one who is obsessed with "Rox Hextall".

@BlindWillyMcHurt, you should get on the X and DJ as Rox Hextall.

 

[Bishop7979]

Nothing says looking to win like giving Ryan Graves and Tristan Jarry 5+ years and filling out your middle six with old ass Eller and Reilly Smith.

But yes, it was Hextall's fault.

It's 2028. Dubas has cratered the Penguins. Sid and Malkin are retired. Our 1st round picks are floundering as Yager tears it up with Winnipeg.

"Can't believe Ron Hextall did this".

Hextall chose to extend Carter and Kap over blueger and or/or McCann and lost tanev to the expansion draft.
Hextall dropped Marino and mathison and brought in smith (who Sullivan refused to play) Petry and ruutta.
Hextall gave up a second round pick for granlund who was going through it off the ice.
Hextall signed mcginn

Let's not pretend the hextall years weren't worse, they were

 

[Gurglesons]

Hextall chose to extend Carter and Kap over blueger and or/or McCann and lost tanev to the expansion draft.
Hextall dropped Marino and mathison and brought in smith (who Sullivan refused to play) Petry and ruutta.
Hextall gave up a second round pick for granlund who was going through it off the ice.
Hextall signed mcginn

Let's not pretend the hextall years weren't worse, they were

None of these things had any long term effect on the Penguins.

Anyone acting like we'd be in a different position with Marino and Matheson or with McCann playing 3rd line LW is once again missing the forest for the trees.

Also Mikael Granlund is 18th in league scoring which is just utterly hilarious.

 

[SEALBound]

You brought up Ron Hextall.

Your argument every time I criticize Dubas is "butttt, buttt Hextall!!!!?!"

This team is on Dubas. You're the one who is obsessed with "Rox Hextall".

@BlindWillyMcHurt, you should get on the X and DJ as Rox Hextall.

Because you bring up moves that were the sole result of Dubas cleaning up Hextall's mess. And you know it.

You wanna bash Graves and Jarry, fine. I do at every opportunity as well. But if you still can't recognize that Hextall made some MAJOR missteps that is still costing this team to this day, then you're "durrr hextall dindu nuffin!" bullshit is still going to get waffle stomped down the drain.

 

[Gurglesons]

Because you bring up moves that were the sole result of Dubas cleaning up Hextall's mess. And you know it.

You wanna bash Graves and Jarry, fine. I do at every opportunity as well. But if you still can't recognize that Hextall made some MAJOR missteps that is still costing this team to this day, then you're "durrr hextall dindu nuffin!" bullshit is still going to get waffle stomped down the drain.

Trading a 1st and 2nd for Erik Karlsson had nothing to do with Ron Hextall.

Blaming Ron Hextall for Dubas miscalculating bringing in a gargantuan contract and then proceeding to sit on his hands while the team floundered all year is honestly incredible.

 

[SEALBound]

None of these things had any long term effect on the Penguins.

Anyone acting like we'd be in a different position with Marino and Matheson or with McCann playing 3rd line LW is once again missing the forest for the trees.

Also Mikael Granlund is 18th in league scoring which is just utterly hilarious.

Translation:

"Nothing bad Hextall did counts!!!"

"Every bad Dubas did counts!!!"

And you wonder why you are constantly called out on your bullshit.

Trading a 1st and 2nd for Erik Karlsson had nothing to do with Ron Hextall.

Blaming Ron Hextall for Dubas miscalculating bringing in a gargantuan contract and then proceeding to sit on his hands while the team floundered all year is honestly incredible.

It has everything to do with Ron Hextall and you know that. You're just making yourself look bad now.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

"Heyyyyyyyyyyyy everyone out there on your commute hows that rat race today alrighhhhhhhhhht! This is your host DJ Rox Hextall with your daily Box Of Rox In The Morning... morning... morning! Stick around for Chugg Fartlet's weather report in just a minute but first... it's TIME TO GET THE LED OUTTTTTTTTT!"

 

[Gurglesons]

Translation:

"Nothing bad Hextall did counts!!!"

"Every bad Dubas did counts!!!"

And you wonder why you are constantly called out on your bullshit.

Ron Hextall was smart enough to not trade 1sts because he didn't fully believe in this team. That's what I meant when he did nothing. He didn't move any pieces that would contribute to us being any better than we were when he was here and he didn't move any futures that would damage our rebuild. That's why he was fired. The fans demanded more action.

We are entering a rebuild and Dubas' two biggest trades have resulted in us losing a top end 1st round prospect and not returning anything of value for that rebuild when moving what will likely be our best trade asset in Guentzel.

It has everything to do with Ron Hextall and you know that. You're just making yourself look bad now.

It doesn't. Dubas decided he was going to attempt to win now and allocated a ton of cap to a bunch of terrible long term options and then gave up picks to cycle out players he didn't believe could win now. Then he legitimately shifted that narrative within 12 months to the point we are now the worst team in the league.

But it's obvious you just want to blame someone that isn't here.

Hextall deserved to be fired. Hextall was a medicore GM. Hextall made some bad decisions. But none of them had lasting effects on the franchise. Matheson, Marino, McCann and Rodrigues are doing nothing to prolong competitive hockey in Pittsburgh.

Losing a pick that turned into Sam Dickinson is the type of move that potentially sets back the Penguins 2-3 years in their rebuild. That is why Dubas gets more hate.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Reading this debate about Dubas and Hextall is like listening to a debate on which of Roseanne Barr or Rosie O'Donnell is the least physically appealing actress in Hollywood.

 

[Gurglesons]

Reading this debate about Dubas and Hextall is like listening to a debate on which of Roseanne Barr or Rosie O'Donnell is the least physically appealing actress in Hollywood.

More like a debate where Rosie O'Donnell is blamed for Roseanne Barr being physically unappealing.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Dubas struck out swinging for the fences

And he needs to fix it.. Badly

But we haven't had a good GM since like first 3 years of JR

 

[Fordy]

jr should have been given the keys to the kingdom. should have kept rolling the dice until sid is in the grave. make a trade every month

 

[Gurglesons]

jr should have been given the keys to the kingdom. should have kept rolling the dice until sid is in the grave. make a trade every month

Yeah, I actually kinda feel this way.

This issue is Hextall's first year here was largely successful IMO, because he let the team breathe for a year.

 

[Bishop7979]

None of these things had any long term effect on the Penguins.

Anyone acting like we'd be in a different position with Marino and Matheson or with McCann playing 3rd line LW is once again missing the forest for the trees.

Also Mikael Granlund is 18th in league scoring which is just utterly hilarious.

This team was going to need to go through some form of rebuild starting around now anyways, but any chance of post season success during the hextall years were thrown out the window due to those moves.

I'm sure we would have had a better chance of success for those next two or three seasons if you would have swapped out Carter and Kapanen for McCann and free cap space and just not traded Marino.

Plus being more successful during that window might have limited some other desperate moves beyond that. Mccann is like only 27 right now. We wouldn't have traded a 2nd for granlund if McCann was still around and he could be centering the second line right now with Geno on wing somewhere. Marino was what, 24, when he was traded? Would this team be better off with him than freaking Grz, or graves? Absolutely.

Success means maybe you keep and resign Jake.

Jake sid rackell
Geno McCann rust

Looks a hell of a lot better than what we have now.

Even if you still hire dubas, and even if he still wants EK, if you don't need to move Petry, granlund, ruutta you don't need to overpay to get EK because you had to send assets to make up for cap dumps thrown to both SJ and Mon.

It's all dominoes, everything is connected, they could be in a better spot during the past couple seasons and right now.

 

[Gurglesons]

This team was going to need to go through some form of rebuild starting around now anyways, but any chance of post season success during the hextall years were thrown out the window due to those moves.

I'm sure we would have had a better chance of success for those next two or three seasons if you would have swapped out Carter and Kapanen for McCann and free cap space and just not traded Marino.

Plus being more successful during that window might have limited some other desperate moves beyond that. Mccann is like only 27 right now. We wouldn't have traded a 2nd for granlund if McCann was still around and he could be centering the second line right now with Geno on wing somewhere. Marino was what, 24, when he was traded? Would this team be better off with him than freaking Grz, or graves? Absolutely.

Success means maybe you keep and resign Jake.

Jake sid rackell
Geno McCann rust

Looks a hell of a lot better than what we have now.

Even if you still hire dubas, and even if he still wants EK, if you don't need to move Petry, granlund, ruutta you don't need to overpay to get EK because you had to send assets to make up for cap dumps thrown to both SJ and Mon.

It's all dominoes, everything is connected, they could be in a better spot during the past couple seasons and right now.

You can't afford Rakell or Rust with McCann.

That may seem like a good thing, but you have to realize that Sullivan is the reason McCann got sent out. He was played on the third line with players like Simon over him in the top six. He was played at wing so Mark Jankowski could be our 3C.

That's the issue. People want to act like Jared McCann would be a 40 goal scorer here. He wouldn't. Not with Sullivan as the coach.

That's why he got moved. Same thing with Marino. Same thing with Evan Rodrigues.

Jake Sid Rakell
Geno McCann Rust

Is a 38.7 million dollar top six. We are currently paying 44 million for our entire forward group.

 

[Fordy]

Yeah, I actually kinda feel this way.

This issue is Hextall's first year here was largely successful IMO, because he let the team breathe for a year.

they were just in a good spot regardless at the time, and no gm will ever be as aggressive as jr was, so, it’s a slow decline that finally got to a total failure mode recently

 

[Gurglesons]

they were just in a good spot regardless at the time, and no gm will ever be as aggressive as jr was, so, it’s a slow decline that finally got to a total failure mode recently

They weren't though. When Hextall took over we were 23rd in the league.

JR was allegedly trying to make some big move.

If he goes and trades Kris Letang that spring, I doubt they go anywhere.