HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
That is not my argument either. Try re-reading my previous posts slowly, feel free to ask an adult for help!
Yeah Sullivan Sucks, but Dubas needs to be talked about too...
- Thread starter TKalltheTime
- Start date
edog37
Registered User
You asked for examples how this rebuild was going & cited 2027. Never mind the fact they just engaged in rebuilding in a serious way.
Here’s the best example. Dubas has secured 29 picks over the next three seasons. That’s essentially 4 draft years in 3 (draft is 7 rounds long). That’s excellent work.
Another example is the pending fire sale over the next few months. No more nonsense about competing with this core. It’s game on. The logo finally came first over the name on the back.
These things take years, not months.
Next steps. Continue to clear out big contracts. Rakell could be moved at the deadline. Pettersson as well. Jarry is either traded or bought out after this season, though there is a scenario whereby he comes back next year as Blomqvist’s backup.
Zbynek
Jarry friggin sucks dude
The fact that we have an extra 2nd round pick in 2026 and 2027 is completely obscured by the fact that Dubas blew 100million on albatross contracts like Karlsson, Jarry, and Graves.
Actually we're still playing catchup to the assets he lost on the Karlsson trade.
Actually we're still playing catchup to the assets he lost on the Karlsson trade.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Yeah. This is the funniest part of the "he's doing the rebuild the right way".
He literally gave away what is looking like a franchise defenseman in Dickinson.
Zbynek
Jarry friggin sucks dude
Dickinson had 6 points yesterday. 38 pts in 20 GP this season. But we have a surplus of 3rd and 5th round picks in 2026 and 2027 so it's okay!
Gilmour1996
Registered User
- Oct 16, 2022
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Didn't Sabres have the rights to select Dickinson? Then Sharks did, after they added a pick in trade with Sabres? Who knows who Dubas would have got in that draft if Pens hadn't made the trade with the Sharks?
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BrookswasHere44
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- Jun 22, 2009
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End of Line
Sic Semper Tyrannis
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Bishop7979
Registered User
- Sep 9, 2005
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The issue with dubas is kinda two fold...
1. In a vacuum most of the moves he and made make sense on paper.
2. The current coach does not have the ability to adjust to the line up he's given to maximize the players he has.
Karlsson - shocking awful power play could legitimately have cost the pens enough pts in the standings to keep them out of the playoffs? Add one of the most prolific pp producers of the last ten years while also dumping most of the previous gms acquisitions.
Graves - at the time a second pairing defender who plays a two way game was needed to pair with petts, prior to coming to the pens graves was that guy. He was a career plus 90 or something, scored at a reasonable clip for his role, and could step into the power play when needed.
But you don't go out and get both graves and ek! This forces graves to play a style that, while he has the build for it, he doesn't play. He's not dumo, and he's never going to be dumo. It's Sullivan trying to rebuild a players game at what, age 27? Of course he's going to struggle. And while he's trying to "fix" graves he's also trying to change karlsson as well.
Both players have had significant regression since joint the penguins, that's coaching.
Grz - I assumed that he would be fighting for the number 6 role, getting limited minutes until Pickering, shea, or st ivany stepped up. Not only has he gotten significant minutes gifted to him when his play has not deserved it, graves (who has been a better player than him most nights) get scratched for multiple games after a single bad night. It's obvious to anyone that Grz sucks but he continues to get significant usage, that's not on the gm, that's on Sullivan.
The team needed to get younger and faster, so dubas brings in some young players who can skate in poolparty at age 25, glass at age 25, shea at 26, beau at age 26 and resigned st ivany at 24. (At the time of their signings/trades) In a vacuum individually these are decent depth moves for the 3rd/4th lines and the 3rd pairing. But a combination of injury, under performance across the board/poor usage by the coach has made them bad signings. Beau has been the Grz of the top six, pool party has been inexplicably benched and scratched over minor mistakes even though some nights he's the ideal 3rd line wingers, Grz gets a sweater over shea or st.ivany ect.
Hayes - if you know you are trying to deal Eller, which apparently was the case going back to last season, Hayes makes sense. He's a replacement for Eller on the 3/4th line, he plays center and wing so there positional flexibility, he was only 31 at the time, and prior to going to st.louis he was a productive top 9 player who was good on the power play. Plus st.louis paid to dump him with Philly is eating half his salary. He comes here, has some injury issues, but when healthy he is stuck in the 4th line, gets like 8 minutes a night and I don't think has sniffed the power play even though a big bodied forward who has hands and can park his ass in front of the net is exactly what is needed.
As someone said a few weeks ago "we knew this team wasn't going to great, but it shouldn't be THIS bad", coaching is what takes a middling team that should be fighting for the last playoff spot and turns them into a 30th (31st?) place team. This team plays with no heart, puts in no effort, can't seem to execute the simplest facets of the game like clean line changes, and has a complete lack of structure. That's coaching.
My only MAJOR current gripes with dubas are,
Jarry's contract which given his inconsistencies was a mistake at the time, but, a mistake most gms would probably have made given that Sullivan backed Jarry at the time.
The defense, pick Graves OR EK, and use that extra money to get another Petterson. The Grz contact was too big for a guy that was a healthy scratch for Boston at the end of last year. He should have been at most a 1 mil contact given he was playing to salvage his NHL career. Tho that extra mil he's getting isn't making or breaking anything, it's Grz usage not his contract.
1. In a vacuum most of the moves he and made make sense on paper.
2. The current coach does not have the ability to adjust to the line up he's given to maximize the players he has.
Karlsson - shocking awful power play could legitimately have cost the pens enough pts in the standings to keep them out of the playoffs? Add one of the most prolific pp producers of the last ten years while also dumping most of the previous gms acquisitions.
Graves - at the time a second pairing defender who plays a two way game was needed to pair with petts, prior to coming to the pens graves was that guy. He was a career plus 90 or something, scored at a reasonable clip for his role, and could step into the power play when needed.
But you don't go out and get both graves and ek! This forces graves to play a style that, while he has the build for it, he doesn't play. He's not dumo, and he's never going to be dumo. It's Sullivan trying to rebuild a players game at what, age 27? Of course he's going to struggle. And while he's trying to "fix" graves he's also trying to change karlsson as well.
Both players have had significant regression since joint the penguins, that's coaching.
Grz - I assumed that he would be fighting for the number 6 role, getting limited minutes until Pickering, shea, or st ivany stepped up. Not only has he gotten significant minutes gifted to him when his play has not deserved it, graves (who has been a better player than him most nights) get scratched for multiple games after a single bad night. It's obvious to anyone that Grz sucks but he continues to get significant usage, that's not on the gm, that's on Sullivan.
The team needed to get younger and faster, so dubas brings in some young players who can skate in poolparty at age 25, glass at age 25, shea at 26, beau at age 26 and resigned st ivany at 24. (At the time of their signings/trades) In a vacuum individually these are decent depth moves for the 3rd/4th lines and the 3rd pairing. But a combination of injury, under performance across the board/poor usage by the coach has made them bad signings. Beau has been the Grz of the top six, pool party has been inexplicably benched and scratched over minor mistakes even though some nights he's the ideal 3rd line wingers, Grz gets a sweater over shea or st.ivany ect.
Hayes - if you know you are trying to deal Eller, which apparently was the case going back to last season, Hayes makes sense. He's a replacement for Eller on the 3/4th line, he plays center and wing so there positional flexibility, he was only 31 at the time, and prior to going to st.louis he was a productive top 9 player who was good on the power play. Plus st.louis paid to dump him with Philly is eating half his salary. He comes here, has some injury issues, but when healthy he is stuck in the 4th line, gets like 8 minutes a night and I don't think has sniffed the power play even though a big bodied forward who has hands and can park his ass in front of the net is exactly what is needed.
As someone said a few weeks ago "we knew this team wasn't going to great, but it shouldn't be THIS bad", coaching is what takes a middling team that should be fighting for the last playoff spot and turns them into a 30th (31st?) place team. This team plays with no heart, puts in no effort, can't seem to execute the simplest facets of the game like clean line changes, and has a complete lack of structure. That's coaching.
My only MAJOR current gripes with dubas are,
Jarry's contract which given his inconsistencies was a mistake at the time, but, a mistake most gms would probably have made given that Sullivan backed Jarry at the time.
The defense, pick Graves OR EK, and use that extra money to get another Petterson. The Grz contact was too big for a guy that was a healthy scratch for Boston at the end of last year. He should have been at most a 1 mil contact given he was playing to salvage his NHL career. Tho that extra mil he's getting isn't making or breaking anything, it's Grz usage not his contract.
BusinessGoose
Registered User
I used to refresh nhl news worried about injuries to our stars
Now i refresh it to see the rest of the league trying and us standing along the wall at the homecoming dance
Now i refresh it to see the rest of the league trying and us standing along the wall at the homecoming dance
The fact that we’re sending Pono down to play the corpse of Kevin Hayes tells you all you need to know about why Sullivan should be fired…bring up every under 24 player you can and play them…if we’re going to lose, lose playing and developing young players at least…
Zbynek
Jarry friggin sucks dude
I saw he was the #1 star for the CHL last night with a goal and five assists. Didn’t even realize he’s the player picked with the EK 1st.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Bishop7979
Registered User
- Sep 9, 2005
- 1,863
- 385
You WANT Sullivan developing players? Are you insane? Keep anyone with any real potential in the AHL till he is fired.
Bishop7979
Registered User
- Sep 9, 2005
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Also, it's noon, why hasn't been fired yet?
Honestly this is dubas biggest failure ... I can forgive overpaying for Grz, I can't forgive Sullivan still being employed on Dec 1st.
Pens x
Registered User
- Oct 8, 2016
- 16,394
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Harry Potter inadvertently caused the team to fall into shambles. It seems like every move made by Dubas were ok-poor.
The mandate was to restock while remaining competitive. He failed miserably in keeping the team competitive.
It is inexcusable that Dubas and Sully still have jobs. Dubas needs to hire a gm.
The mandate was to restock while remaining competitive. He failed miserably in keeping the team competitive.
It is inexcusable that Dubas and Sully still have jobs. Dubas needs to hire a gm.
Darren McCord
Registered User
- Dec 15, 2015
- 10,049
- 8,446
Ya Dubas can get the benefit of the doubt on some player decision but his decision to keep sullivan this long is inexcusable.
It was Hextall biggest flaw too TBH. Hextall is still here if he fires Sullivan.
- Jun 13, 2010
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That's a disingenuous argument because at the time he made the trade, he wasn't looking to rebuild. They were looking to win still.
And again, wouldn't have even been necessary if he didn't have to clean up the mess of Ron Hextall who all but gutted the roster.
BlindWillyMcHurt
ti kallisti
- May 31, 2004
- 36,175
- 31,213
You guys need to stop torturing yourselves and lean into the absurdity. They aren't firing this guy for a while... they will at least let his current contract run it's course and are drawing some kind of wrongheaded line in the sand re: the Olympics even though frankly nobody these days really even gives a shit about the Olympics. As utterly insane and inexcusable as it is at every single level to allow a f***ing coach to take priority over all other things you HAVE to admit that it's so batshit that it's amusing in a gallows humor kinda way.
Bishop7979
Registered User
- Sep 9, 2005
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Haha true. Best of both worlds.
But honestly I haven't felt like Hayes had been bad, I def wouldn't call him a "corpse". He's more under used if anything. His positioning has been good, he's produced ok given his minutes and linemates, isn't a slow as I expected, and hasn't cost us a game.
If we were actually trying to win I'd honestly give Hayes a game or two between bunting and rust, put Geno back with Rackell and sid, keep the opp line together, and until glass is back, put beau with acari and nieto and see if that evens out the line up a bit.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Nothing says looking to win like giving Ryan Graves and Tristan Jarry 5+ years and filling out your middle six with old ass Eller and Reilly Smith.
But yes, it was Hextall's fault.
It's 2028. Dubas has cratered the Penguins. Sid and Malkin are retired. Our 1st round picks are floundering as Yager tears it up with Winnipeg.
"Can't believe Ron Hextall did this".
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