Yeah Sullivan Sucks, but Dubas needs to be talked about too...

[Buddy Bizarre]

I find this thread very interesting.

As the outgoing GM of the Leafs, Dubas tried to make a power play for more power, making it a requirement that for him to sign a contract extension in Toronto, he all but demanded he would have to have more power and autonomy. According to multiple reports, Dubas wanted to effectively eliminate Shanahan’s role in roster decisions and he wanted to be able to report directly to the MLSE board of directors bypassing Shanahan completely.

Those untenable contract demands, largely led to the end of Dubas’ tenure in Toronto.

Upon his exit, Dubas, sites a lack of autonomy and Shanahan’s meddling as being the major source of his lack of success as GM of the Leafs. He gets that message out, by quietly leaking it to his media buddies all while keeping his own hands clean.

So Dubas heads to Pittsburgh to assume the presidents role, reportedly gaining him the autonomy he lacked in Toronto.

Fast forward to today and now Dubas is president of the Pens and people speculate that he can’t; fire the coach, can’t initiate a rebuild and can’t trade some players . So magically once again, Dubas’ struggles are blamed as being the fault of something else, other than himself of course.

If the speculation here is accurate, Dubas has less autonomy than he had in Toronto. And if that’s actually the case, it’s his own fault snd nobody else's.

You make logical points and can't disagree with much.

Perhaps there were conversations about Sullivan between Dubas and FSG that aren't in the public eye.

Something like: "you'll have full authority once Sid/Geno/Letang are gone. Until that time, Sullivan will remain as coach"

Lot's of conjecture (why we're on a message board). But that's the only way it makes sense to me at this moment.

 

[spcastlemagic]

I agree with that - I don’t think Dubas’ mandate is to put together a winning team as fast as possible, and I don’t think he has the authority to fire or trade certain very substantial parts of the org. So it’s hard for me to judge exactly how good of a General Manager he is when he’s more of a Specific Forms of Approved Tweaking Manager instead.

For me this is borderline a Pirates situation - ownership isn’t particularly interested in what happens in the standings, as long as their product does what they want on the balance sheet. I think it’s not quite a Pirates situation because I’m convinced Nutting thinks winning is actually bad and undesirable, but it’s not far off!

 

[eXile3]

I agree with that - I don’t think Dubas’ mandate is to put together a winning team as fast as possible, and I don’t think he has the authority to fire or trade certain very substantial parts of the org. So it’s hard for me to judge exactly how good of a General Manager he is when he’s more of a Specific Forms of Approved Tweaking Manager instead.

For me this is borderline a Pirates situation - ownership isn’t particularly interested in what happens in the standings, as long as their product does what they want on the balance sheet. I think it’s not quite a Pirates situation because I’m convinced Nutting thinks winning is actually bad and undesirable, but it’s not far off!

Baseball is vastly different than the NHL. The majority of revenue comes from TV deals, the NHL its the gate.

If people continue to not go to games, last night looked like there were a quite a few empty seats, they’ll notice it.

I honestly could see it turning into Gen X. Still a hardcore following, 14,000 people a game… I think FSG will see that as serious and they aren’t as hands off as people think.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Dubas had a frontrow seat to see that Bunting’s numbers were inflated by playing with Matthews and Marner and he still took the bait.

 

[akapidots]

Hard to evaluate the on-ice impact of his job when he can't fire the damn coach

 

[Gurglesons]

I agree with that - I don’t think Dubas’ mandate is to put together a winning team as fast as possible, and I don’t think he has the authority to fire or trade certain very substantial parts of the org. So it’s hard for me to judge exactly how good of a General Manager he is when he’s more of a Specific Forms of Approved Tweaking Manager instead.

For me this is borderline a Pirates situation - ownership isn’t particularly interested in what happens in the standings, as long as their product does what they want on the balance sheet. I think it’s not quite a Pirates situation because I’m convinced Nutting thinks winning is actually bad and undesirable, but it’s not far off!

FSG is here to make money. If the Penguins are not getting attendance. They aren't making money.

The only other opportunity that was largely paraded around was the financial real estate around the arena which from my understanding little has happened with.

Wouldn't be surprised if the team gets sold soon tbh.