PTO: [WSH] F Jakub Vrana signs PTO with the Capitals

[1specter]

Back to Washington, lol.

Caps put the exclamation mark on the Vrana-Mantha trade

 

[cg98]

Kuznetsov is 32.

Vrana is 28.

Their fall from grace is clearly impacted by other things than age. I'm not really sure why you are arguing this. It's not meant to cheapen or take anything away from the Capitals cup, just much like LA it seems like a culture of partying, etc. caught up to key members of the group that brought them a cup.

Thats just 2 players out of a whole roster that youre saying all retired and declined due to the same "partying" issues and habits these guys had. Vrana was 22 and Kuzy was 26 when they won their cup, even when accounting for substance abuse and party issues this was the prime of their careers where they were younger and producing, and so was the core around them. Some athletes just cant push their prime production into their later years or 30s regardless of if theyre healthy or if they like to get their fix.

You just dont have a good argument and it shows everytime you reply lol.

 

[DitchMarner]

It's sad what's happened to this guy's career recently. He was quite good with WSH before being traded. Wasn't he a top ES or five on five scorer one year?


Good luck to him in the return to DC.

 

[Gurglesons]

Thats just 2 players out of a whole roster that youre saying all retired and declined due to the same "partying" issues and habits these guys had. Vrana was 22 and Kuzy was 26 when they won their cup, even when accounting for substance abuse and party issues this was the prime of their careers where they were younger and producing, and so was the core around them. Some athletes just cant push their prime production into their later years or 30s regardless of if their healthy or if they like to get their fixes.

You just dont have a good argument and it shows everytime you reply lol.

I mean sure. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[ViD]

An excellent player that needs to resolve his off the ice issues

Could be a great pickup for WSH

 

[Langway]

Clearly back to par-tay par-tay.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Seems like a no brainer move for both sides

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Theyre insinuating the whole Washington roster has retired or massively declined because they "partied" and somehow 2 guys who had bad habits with substance abuse is indicative of that. Its not even remotely close to what youre saying that theyre saying but I get it. Reading is hard.

I think you’re generalizing what he said. He suggested that a lot of the core has declined since the last Cup win and suggested that substance abuse had a large role in it. It’s not an unfair take.

 

[Klargplutte]

He scored 2 goals for Caps in the only NHL game Ive watched live so far , so there is that , give him a cookie and a chance.

 

[Satan]

could be a sneaky PTO without Kuzya's influence

 

[cg98]

I think you’re generalizing what he said. He suggested that a lot of the core has declined since the last Cup win and suggested that substance abuse had a large role in it. It’s not an unfair take.

Do you have any evidence of this team wide substance abuse outside of a grand total of 2 players that led to all the Washington Capitals players declining and retiring after one summer of partying or are you just generalizing and not knowing what youre talking about? They all declined and retired through the years because of a whole variety of reasons regarding age, health, ability to consistently play and produce that dont have to relate at all to any sort of substance abuse, party habits and issues that lead to the decline of a pro athlete in pro sports. Youre both just being willfully igorant of that and I dont know why lol. Its not a good opinion.

 

[PenguinSuitedUp]

Do you have any evidence of this team wide substance abuse outside of a grand total of 2 players that led to all the Washington Capitals players declining and retiring after one summer of partying or are you just generalizing and not knowing what youre talking about? They all declined and retired through the years because of a whole variety of reasons regarding age, health, ability to consistently play and produce that dont have to relate at all to any sort of substance abuse, party habits and issues that lead to the decline of a pro athlete in pro sports. Youre both just being willfully igorant of that and I dont know why lol. Its not a good opinion.

Nobody said team wide. Once again, you’re generalizing his statement. Kuznetsov and Vrana both have been proven to have substance abuse issues, and at the time, it was stated through several articles that Kuznetsov wasn’t abusing drugs by himself. I’m not sure why you get so offended over someone suggesting that substance abuse occurred on that team. It did happen.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Kuznetsov is 32.

Vrana is 28.

Their fall from grace is clearly impacted by other things than age. I'm not really sure why you are arguing this. It's not meant to cheapen or take anything away from the Capitals cup, just much like LA it seems like a culture of partying, etc. caught up to key members of the group that brought them a cup.

The Caps don’t have a culture of partying though, and they got rid of guys like Vrana, Samsonov, Kuznetsov, etc who were headaches for the ice. Vrana was booted from Hershey and the Czech National Team for having issues before he was a full-time Caps player.

I get what you are saying but I think you’re applying too much of the transitive property here, i.e. the Caps partied after winning the Cup and a small number of guys on the team had substance problems, therefore the Caps partying after winning the Cup led to a culture of substance problems. I don’t think it’s that black and white.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Saw him pop up on Instagram and he does not look healthy, at all. He looks like he’s lost a ton of weight and not in a good way. Really sad, hope he can work through his demons.

View attachment 900964

It's an unflattering picture w/ the hair and lighting but it's hard to see anything out of the ordinary here.

 

[JaegerDice]

Wish my team had made this no-downside move.

Ah well.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Vrana has always looked like that for the most part, I wouldn't use that as some sort of evidence.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

It's an unflattering picture w/ the hair and lighting but it's hard to see anything out of the ordinary here.

I dunno, Vrana used to be jacked. He was listed at 6’0” 210 lbs and it was solid muscle. He looks gaunt and frail and his facial structure looks completely different. Hopefully I’m just reading it into too much or it’s an unflattering picture.

 

[cg98]

Nobody said team wide. Once again, you’re generalizing his statement. Kuznetsov and Vrana both have been proven to have substance abuse issues, and at the time, it was stated through several articles that Kuznetsov wasn’t abusing drugs by himself. I’m not sure why you get so offended over someone suggesting that substance abuse occurred on that team. It did happen.

Thats literally what the poster that youre replying about was implying.

 

[Gurglesons]

Thats literally what the poster that youre replying about was implying.

I know nuance is difficult on a message board, but what I was implying is that the Capitals had a team culture of high flying, doing whatever they want, live fast for years.

I don't think it is surprising that we've seen multiple players succumb to early departures or disappointing ends from the league due to this.

We saw the same trend in Los Angeles. This isn't to say that the Capitals were wrong to enjoy life or that every player had a drug / alcohol problem. Just that the culture helped enable some of these players and ultimately shortened their careers.

You can blame it on age. And that is 100% part of it. But, not every player can be Alex Ovechkin eating Subway and Spaghetti every day as they age.

 

[bleedgreen]

Nobody said team wide. Once again, you’re generalizing his statement. Kuznetsov and Vrana both have been proven to have substance abuse issues, and at the time, it was stated through several articles that Kuznetsov wasn’t abusing drugs by himself. I’m not sure why you get so offended over someone suggesting that substance abuse occurred on that team. It did happen.

It happens on every team is probably the point. Kuzy has RA. Just because he has done coke and gotten in trouble for it doesn’t mean that’s his actual issue, and even if it is lots of guys in the NHL use coke. When Vrana went overboard post cup weren’t his own teammates worried about him? Us assuming a certain team has a poor culture vs other teams when it comes down to handling these issues is imo probably fan invented fiction because this is what fans do.

I assume teams that don’t have these issues publicly have just done better making sure we never see them doing it.

 

[cg98]

I know nuance is difficult on a message board, but what I was implying is that the Capitals had a team culture of high flying, doing whatever they want, live fast for years.

I don't think it is surprising that we've seen multiple players succumb to early departures or disappointing ends from the league due to this.

We saw the same trend in Los Angeles. This isn't to say that the Capitals were wrong to enjoy life or that every player had a drug / alcohol problem. Just that the culture helped enable some of these players and ultimately shortened their careers.

You can blame it on age. And that is 100% part of it. But, not every player can be Alex Ovechkin eating Subway and Spaghetti every day as they age.

Thats literally the point I am making. These players also dont have to be drug addicted party goers whose careers dwindled and ended that way just because you say so. Tons of healthy athletes whove never drank or ingested substances recreationally through their careers have trouble extending their prime later into their professional careers and late 20s to mid 30s because pro sports is difficult and always changing/evolving. You just like to ignore that though. I havent seen any team with a 'culture of being team wide partying drug users and doing whatever they want all the time' as you so put it win a Stanley Cup or any sort of championship and be consistently one of the best teams in the league for years before and after said win.

 

[Gurglesons]

Thats literally the point I am making. These players also dont have to be drug addicted party goers whose careers dwindled and ended that way just because you say so. Tons of healthy athletes whove never drank or ingested substances recreationally through their careers have trouble extending their prime later into their professional careers and late 20s to mid 30s because pro sports is difficult and always changing/evolving. You just like to ignore that though. I havent seen any team with a 'culture of being team wide partying drug users and doing whatever they want all the time' as you so put it win a Stanley Cup or any sort of championship and be consistently one of the best teams in the league for years before and after said win.

You're making a strawman argument.

I'm done because you aren't willing to have a realistic conversation with nuance about the situation and painting me as someone who is acting like Ovie is doing rails with Kuzy and Vrana on the daily.

I'm not ignoring anything or insinuating anything and you are just arguing to argue.

It happens on every team is probably the point. Kuzy has RA. Just because he has done coke and gotten in trouble for it doesn’t mean that’s his actual issue, and even if it is lots of guys in the NHL use coke. When Vrana went overboard post cup weren’t his own teammates worried about him? Us assuming a certain team has a poor culture vs other teams when it comes down to handling these issues is imo probably fan invented fiction because this is what fans do.

I assume teams that don’t have these issues publicly have just done better making sure we never see them doing it.

Never said Washington's culture was poor. They just had the vibes of being a high flying, partying, anything goes group.

Nothing wrong with it. Just rough to see the repercussions on two of the players and allegedly Connolly too.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I know nuance is difficult on a message board, but what I was implying is that the Capitals had a team culture of high flying, doing whatever they want, live fast for years.

I don't think it is surprising that we've seen multiple players succumb to early departures or disappointing ends from the league due to this.

We saw the same trend in Los Angeles. This isn't to say that the Capitals were wrong to enjoy life or that every player had a drug / alcohol problem. Just that the culture helped enable some of these players and ultimately shortened their careers.

You can blame it on age. And that is 100% part of it. But, not every player can be Alex Ovechkin eating Subway and Spaghetti every day as they age.

There may be something to it, but a ton of players in that room had long, successful careers and you don't see that if there's a culture of not working hard and doing whatever you want, or or off the ice. Ovi, Backstrom, Carlson, Oshie, Holtby, Wilson, Orlov, Eller, Niskanen, Orpik, Beagle, even Kuznetsov for a while... all dudes who played a decade or more at a high level on that team and all dudes who would be defining the culture of the program. Stephenson and Burakovsky did well after leaving, got the bag, and are still in the league.

That leaves DSP, Vrana, Connolly, and Kempny. Kempny's career was cut short by a brutal hamstring injury. Connolly signed a multi-year deal with Chicago after leaving Washington and stuck in the league until he was 30. That leaves DSP, Vrana and now Kuznetsov as guys who really tanked their careers on their own - DSP because he got super fat and Vrana and Kuznetsov with the substance

I just don't think you can equate run-and-gun hockey to not taking being a professional seriously. Six guys played 1,000+ games with Orlov and Wilson likely to make it there as well. Niskanen played 950 games. The Caps were a top team in the league for 15 years... I don't think you stay that good for that long by doing whatever you want and living fast.

 

[Gurglesons]

There may be something to it, but a ton of players in that room had long, successful careers and you don't see that if there's a culture of not working hard and doing whatever you want, or or off the ice. Ovi, Backstrom, Carlson, Oshie, Holtby, Wilson, Orlov, Eller, Niskanen, Orpik, Beagle, even Kuznetsov for a while... all dudes who played a decade or more at a high level on that team and all dudes who would be defining the culture of the program. Stephenson and Burakovsky did well after leaving, got the bag, and are still in the league.

That leaves DSP, Vrana, Connolly, and Kempny. Kempny's career was cut short by a brutal hamstring injury. Connolly signed a multi-year deal with Chicago after leaving Washington and stuck in the league until he was 30. That leaves DSP, Vrana and now Kuznetsov as guys who really tanked their careers on their own - DSP because he got super fat and Vrana and Kuznetsov with the substance

I just don't think you can equate run-and-gun hockey to not taking being a professional seriously. Six guys played 1,000+ games with Orlov and Wilson likely to make it there as well. Niskanen played 950 games. The Caps were a top team in the league for 15 years... I don't think you stay that good for that long by doing whatever you want and living fast.

You guys are making strawman arguments and taking the comments I am making way too sensitively because you are a fan of the Capitals.

There is nothing wrong with the culture, playing style, or attitudes of the Capitals the last 10-15 years.

Just stating that we've seen some of their group wear it moreso than we've seen on other teams. It's just like how people that work in the restaurant industry and are constantly around partying tend to have issues as well.

Just an observation that for some reason you and the other poster are turning into some attack on the sancitity of the Captials.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Caps put the exclamation mark on the Vrana-Mantha trade

How Cossa develops will be the deciding factor in that trade.

Vrana lazy defensively with injury issues and personal demons. Mantha lazy and inconsistent with injury issues but no known personal demons.