Would you be OK with Sid/Geno playing for another NHL team?

[AuroraBorealis]

Nah I’m just enough of an adult that I can stomach a sports team not winning and still enjoy them

It's about the effort. Some years you need to lose in this league, in order to replenish the prospect pool. But they've chosen not to pick a lane.
It's the organization's attitude, NOT their standings points, that is disheartening.
How clear do I have to make this? What's it gonna take for you to understand?

Not even bothering to address the garbage that is your second paragraph.. but if I did.. consider the arrogance it takes to suggest a grown man you’ve never met doesn’t know what’s best for himself and you do.

More twisting of my words. Fantastic.
I didn't say he doesn't KNOW what's best for himself. I said he will CHOOSE to sacrifice himself, because that's in his nature. He always has prioritized others. That's why he's a good leader.

The reading comprehension level on this board is legit among the worst I've ever seen on the internet. People half-read what you say before they jump right to responding and altering your posts with whatever suits them. It happens at an incredible frequency. Already dealt with like 5 instances of that today.

It's so f***ing exhausting to have to explain what you wrote again and again to people, because they can't take an extra 15-30 seconds to focus.
Once should be enough. These posts aren't running away. Sit there and open your eyes until you process the information.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Minnesota became Minnesota because they built around players who weren't good enough to carry the team to a cup. And they still continue to try to complete without ever rebuilding. The Penguins are doing the opposite of that, they're allowing themselves to slowly get worse until they hit the bottom. Just a bizarre comparison.

False. There is not gonna be a rock bottom if Dubas and ownership don't change their plan. He straight up said this isn't gonna be a tear it down to the studs rebuild.
They are planning to stay competitive, just like Minnesota, even after Sid's gone. They are preparing the team right now to avoid being doormats for any stretch of years.
They want Yager, Pickering, Blomqvist and the rest of the better prospects to be ready to be big contributors when Sid hangs them up. He wants Sid to prepare them mentally to be leaders. That's his #1 reason for wanting to re-sign him. He's on record explaining that.
Dubas believes that he can sustain bubble mediocrity during this transition, while simultaneously improving them to the point they are contenders not long after.
He thinks that he can outwit the established NHL cycle.

You know fans have gotten truly deranged when they think support Sid, Geno and Letang is “not caring about winning”.

If the cost is throwing 5+ years of the organization down the dumpster, you bet your ass it does.
We already had year 2 of that. Get ready for year 3.

 

[Ugene Magic]

 

[OtherThingsILike]

Okay? So build a new core, one people can get behind and can usher in a new era of contention?

I understand what you're saying, but it's not as simple as this, and you know this.
Sometimes you can do everything right - trade everyone for picks, win every trade, pick the best available player at every turn - and it still doesn't work out.
I know that having a Buffalo-style eternal rebuild sounds terrible, but what would be worse is forcing Sid and Geno out and having a Buffalo-style eternal rebuild anyway.
And yes, I know that forcing them out makes the eternal rebuild less likely, but it doesn't make it impossible. And I think in that case, it would be worse for the team to force them out than to not force them out.

Furthermore, will the hypothetical next future core be as likely to take discounts in order to win if it means they're just going to be shipped out when it's convenient for the team to do so?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

It's about the effort. Some years you need to lose in this league, in order to replenish the prospect pool. But they've chosen not to pick a lane.
It's the organization's attitude, NOT their standings points, that is disheartening.
How clear do I have to make this? What's it gonna take for you to understand?


More twisting of my words. Fantastic.
I didn't say he doesn't KNOW what's best for himself. I said he will CHOOSE to sacrifice himself, because that's in his nature. He always has prioritized others. That's why he's a good leader.

The reading comprehension level on this board is legit among the worst I've ever seen on the internet. People half-read what you say before they jump right to responding and altering your posts with whatever suits them. It happens at an incredible frequency. Already dealt with like 5 instances of that today.

It's so f***ing exhausting to have to explain what you wrote again and again to people, because they can't take an extra 15-30 seconds to focus.
Once should be enough. These posts aren't running away. Sit there and open your eyes until you process the information.

I don’t know what to tell you other than you’ll have to get over it. Can’t always have what you want.

I’m happy for my favorite athletes on my favorite team to stay and the idea it makes anyone less of a fan makes me think you take this way too seriously. World isn’t black and white. Your opinion of what to do isn’t a definitive “good” thing.

 

[Andy99]

Just for this alone, Sid and Geno deserve lifetime contracts…no problem with them staying and if we wanted the rebuild to go faster, we could have fired the coach at any time lol…

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - Historical cards from a historical year, the 2009 championship season

www.hockeybuzz.com

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Just for this alone, Sid and Geno deserve lifetime contracts…no problem with them staying and if we wanted the rebuild to go faster, we could have fired the coach at any time lol…

HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - Historical cards from a historical year, the 2009 championship season

www.hockeybuzz.com

That Staal goal was so sick when it happened. One of my favorite moments.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

That Staal goal was so sick when it happened. One of my favorite moments.

Definitely a turning point in the series. The fans almost blew the dome off the Igloo

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

That Staal goal was so sick when it happened. One of my favorite moments.

I thought that goal was going to win the series in six games.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

I'd be ok with:

Sid playing in MTL or COL.
Geno playing in DET.
Letang playing in MTL.

And that's it.

If they're going to play elsewhere, let it be their childhood teams they dreamed of playing for, or to play with a close friend.

 

[Pancakes]

I'd be ok with:

Sid playing in MTL or COL.
Geno playing in DET.
Letang playing in MTL.

And that's it.

If they're going to play elsewhere, let it be their childhood teams they dreamed of playing for, or to play with a close friend.

Good lord I wouldn't be okay with any of those. f*** Montreal. And f*** Detroit.

Maybe I could make an exception for Colorado I guess if Sid really wanted out.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I don’t know what to tell you other than you’ll have to get over it. Can’t always have what you want.

I’m happy for my favorite athletes on my favorite team to stay and the idea it makes anyone less of a fan makes me think you take this way too seriously. World isn’t black and white. Your opinion of what to do isn’t a definitive “good” thing.

It's a definitive "good" thing if you care about championships.
If you don't, then sure, the team can do whatever.

About 66% here no longer do, so you're in the boat with the majority. Nothing wrong with that.
We have a lot of middle-aged people who don't care about the long term future anymore. I get it.
Maybe it's because their passion for the competitive side of the game is waning after seeing 3-5 Cups, or maybe it's because they feel they'll be too old and tired when the Pens are finally contenders again.
I don't know what their reasons are, but it's a clear trend on the board. They simply don't care about future Cups right now. It's low prio.

I understand what you're saying, but it's not as simple as this, and you know this.
Sometimes you can do everything right - trade everyone for picks, win every trade, pick the best available player at every turn - and it still doesn't work out.
I know that having a Buffalo-style eternal rebuild sounds terrible, but what would be worse is forcing Sid and Geno out and having a Buffalo-style eternal rebuild anyway.
And yes, I know that forcing them out makes the eternal rebuild less likely, but it doesn't make it impossible. And I think in that case, it would be worse for the team to force them out than to not force them out.

Furthermore, will the hypothetical next future core be as likely to take discounts in order to win if it means they're just going to be shipped out when it's convenient for the team to do so?

It doesn't matter how difficult it is or how unlikely it is to work. It's the only path that has a possibility of leading towards Cups.
So it's your default option if, as GMs and owners, your priority is championships. You'd think that it should be.
A half-ass re-tool on the fly is not gonna get it done. That's the Minnesota path. We know where it ends.

An "eternal rebuild" only happens if it's been mismanaged, like Buffalo's was. Theirs was horrific, clueless.
There is no reason ours should go the same way.

As for if the next core will take discounts...that is so many years away that it's not worth trying to project now. The landscape and perceptions will change by then.
They'll probably just take discounts if it's a desirable place to play that has a good chance to win, like always.
But you have to set the standard with the first big contracts you dole out, so others follow suit.

 

[BusinessGoose]

It's a definitive "good" thing if you care about championships.
If you don't, then sure, the team can do whatever.

About 66% here no longer do, so you're in the boat with the majority. Nothing wrong with that.
We have a lot of middle-aged people who don't care about the long term future anymore. I get it.
Maybe it's because their passion for the competitive side of the game is waning after seeing 3-5 Cups, or maybe it's because they feel they'll be too old and tired when the Pens are finally contenders again.
I don't know what their reasons are, but it's a clear trend on the board. They simply don't care about future Cups right now. It's low prio.

It doesn't matter how difficult it is or how unlikely it is to work. It's the only path that has a possibility of leading towards Cups.
So it's your default option if, as GMs and owners, your priority is championships. You'd think that it should be.
A half-ass re-tool on the fly is not gonna get it done. That's the Minnesota path. We know where it ends.

An "eternal rebuild" only happens if it's been mismanaged, like Buffalo's was. Theirs was horrific, clueless.
There is no reason ours should go the same way.

As for if the next core will take discounts...that is so many years away that it's not worth trying to project now. The landscape and perceptions will change by then.
They'll probably just take discounts if it's a desirable place to play that has a good chance to win, like always.
But you have to set the standard with the first big contracts you dole out, so others follow suit.

According to their Linked In, the Penguins aren't singularly concerned about winning championships, either:

Our vision: To be the best organization in sports, respected for our culture of excellence on and off the ice.

Pittsburgh Penguins | LinkedIn

Pittsburgh Penguins | 32,615 followers on LinkedIn. The Pittsburgh Penguins are a professional ice hockey team based in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. They are members of the Metropolitan Division of the Eastern Conference of the National Hockey League. Our vision: To be the best organization in...

www.linkedin.com

Guess they're a bunch of give-up boomers, too, though

 

[AuroraBorealis]

According to their Linked In, the Penguins aren't singularly concerned about winning championships, either:

Our vision: To be the best organization in sports, respected for our culture of excellence on and off the ice.

Pittsburgh Penguins | LinkedIn

Pittsburgh Penguins | 32,615 followers on LinkedIn. The Pittsburgh Penguins are a professional ice hockey team based in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. They are members of the Metropolitan Division of the Eastern Conference of the National Hockey League. Our vision: To be the best organization in...

www.linkedin.com

Guess they're a bunch of give-up boomers, too, though

Words? I care about actions man.

Sully is a big talker too about wanting to contend, but then he doesn't back it up with his choices.

 

[BusinessGoose]

Words? I care about actions man.

Sully is a big talker too about wanting to contend, but then he doesn't back it up with his choices.

You've gotten really annoying over the last year

Sucks to see

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You've gotten really annoying over the last year

Sucks to see

Sorry for not sharing your opinions.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Words? I care about actions man.

Sully is a big talker too about wanting to contend, but then he doesn't back it up with his choices.

You were claiming the other day that the Penguins weren't rebuilding because Dubas said so.

They are setting themselves up for a rebuild, they just aren't telling the fans they are.

They are not rebuilding on the fly, as they have acquired no young players, and certainly no good young players. They just retained salary to dump Smith and get a pick 3 years from now. That's what rebuilding teams do.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

You were claiming the other day that the Penguins weren't rebuilding because Dubas said so.

They are setting themselves up for a rebuild, they just aren't telling the fans they are.

They are not rebuilding on the fly, as they have acquired no young players, and certainly no good young players. They just retained salary to dump Smith and get a pick 3 years from now. That's what rebuilding teams do.

It wasn't a claim. I quoted Dubas. He said he's not gonna tear it down to the studs. Watch the presser.
You're talking about a re-tool on the fly.

Serious rebuilding teams trade their assets they don't need anymore before they deteriorate. The Guentzel trade was the way, but there isn't close to enough of that going on.
They don't re-sign their old stars and block 39 million of cap, slowing down the progress of their prospect pool. They don't attempt to re-sign Pettersson and block 30+ million in cap space at a time where they need to draft higher, not lower.
They maximize potential quality futures, because that's the #1 need.

I already explained what they're doing. They're trying to prevent any kind of 2005-06-like seasons. They want no real downtime. It's an FSG mandate. They are against scorched earth.

This is a fence-sitting approach. It's doing a little bit of pretending in the standings, and a little bit of prospect pool replenishment.
It's not enough, and it's not gonna lead to Cups.
There's a very good reason teams, like the Sharks, commit to a direction. It's the clear way to go if you're serious about creating a new contention window.
They understand that even if it ultimately fails, they have to try.

How many teams have we seen with multiple Cups do it on the backs of proper rebuilds?
A re-tool only opens a contention window if the starting point is when your team was rich with assets, like the Rangers were.
The Penguins don't have that luxury, where they can jump straight back to leading divisions. They must go through painful years to get back to where they should want to be.

 

[Night Shift]

You've gotten really annoying over the last year

Sucks to see

Rikolas Revenge has always been whiny.

 

[Night Shift]

It wasn't a claim. I quoted Dubas. He said he's not gonna tear it down to the studs. Watch the presser.
You're talking about a re-tool on the fly.

Serious rebuilding teams trade their assets they don't need anymore before they deteriorate. The Guentzel trade was the way, but there isn't close to enough of that going on.
They don't re-sign their old stars and block 39 million of cap, slowing down the progress of their prospect pool. They don't attempt to re-sign Pettersson and block 30+ million in cap space at a time where they need to draft higher, not lower.
They maximize potential quality futures, because that's the #1 need.

I already explained what they're doing. They're trying to prevent any kind of 2005-06-like seasons. They want no real downtime. It's an FSG mandate. They are against scorched earth.

This is a fence-sitting approach. It's doing a little bit of pretending in the standings, and a little bit of prospect pool replenishment.
It's not enough, and it's not gonna lead to Cups.
There's a very good reason teams, like the Sharks, commit to a direction. It's the clear way to go if you're serious about creating a new contention window.
They understand that even if it ultimately fails, they have to try.

How many teams have we seen with multiple Cups do it on the backs of proper rebuilds?
A re-tool only opens a contention window if the starting point is when your team was rich with assets, like the Rangers were.
The Penguins don't have that luxury, where they can jump straight back to leading divisions. They must go through painful years to get back to where they should want to be.

This is your brain on Tip of the Ice-Burgh Podcast.

Any questions?

 

[Ugene Magic]

Words? I care about actions man.

Sully is a big talker too about wanting to contend, but then he doesn't back it up with his choices.

 

[Kiith Nabaal]

I am fine with whatever either of them want to do. If they stay, I don't think it is going to hurt us all that badly. It isn't like there are any high profile players coming in the next few years or so(?). If we traded either of them to another team, that first rounder will likely be pretty low also. We have to make sure we can even develop players first.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

It's a definitive "good" thing if you care about championships.
If you don't, then sure, the team can do whatever.

About 66% here no longer do, so you're in the boat with the majority. Nothing wrong with that.
We have a lot of middle-aged people who don't care about the long term future anymore. I get it.
Maybe it's because their passion for the competitive side of the game is waning after seeing 3-5 Cups, or maybe it's because they feel they'll be too old and tired when the Pens are finally contenders again.
I don't know what their reasons are, but it's a clear trend on the board. They simply don't care about future Cups right now. It's low prio.

I am 26 which I hope is not middle aged.

And no it’s not definitive that moving on from the core gets them any closer to championships. The cores trade value is likely low and there is SERIOUS value in treating franchise greats well. Human capital is a real thing.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I'd be ok with:

Sid playing in MTL or COL.
Geno playing in DET.
Letang playing in MTL.

And that's it.

If they're going to play elsewhere, let it be their childhood teams they dreamed of playing for, or to play with a close friend.

Just got off the phone with Dubi......he's asking you to please expand your "geno list"

Thank you

 

[Ugene Magic]

The Penguins from one era (Mario/Jagr) to another (Sid/Geno) went 17 years without a championship. That's not even considering the 1967/68 season to 1990/91 bridge of 23 years to their 1st cup.

Some people need to reevaluate their expectations and their lofty goals for the team. It's a marathon not a race. There is no easy button to push.

I've been around since the teams inception and have seen the cities championships "Many" over that span.