Would you be OK with Sid/Geno playing for another NHL team?

Would you be OK with Sid/Geno playing for another NHL team?


  • Total voters
    89
  • Poll closed .

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
35,325
29,906
It's not that bottoming out for a few years to collect those sweet lottery picks ISN'T helpful to a rebuild. It makes the chances of you scoring a top echelon player you can lock down for years that much more feasible. But it isn't a sure shot, either. And I would contend that the Penguins have gotten RIDICULOUSLY lucky the last couple times they tanked out and picked high. Also again... the modern NHL is much, much different than the last time the Penguins were a bottom feeders. Running back the same playbook from 20 years ago seems... well... I guess like something this asshole team would do, huh?

Adding to the melodrama is that I have absolutely rock bottom, zero faith at all in Sullivan and Dubas to steer this ship in the right direction to navigate a rebuild. So what's the hurry in selling everything off if these boys are just gonna botch the job, anyway?
 

Buddy Bizarre

Registered User
Jul 9, 2021
6,025
4,266
Well, I think that is largely @AuroraBorealis' point. If you don't bottom out like Detroit didn't or you get screwed by the lottery like Detroit did you are damned to exist in the middle.

But, I think that is also a cautionary tale to assuming you can draft your way to success too.

As I said, most teams that have "rebuilt" in the last ten or so years were trying to be competitive and lucked their way into franchise players. The NHL Draft isn't what it was 15-20 years ago when we established our core.

Yes, and my overarching point is that it doesn't matter if you completely bottom out like Buff or "kinda" bottom out like Detroit. There's a ton of luck involved in the draft process and we benefited considerably.

So there's no guarantee either way. and to continue what others have said: if there's not 100% certainty that path X will lead to future success, why don't we enjoy our nostalgia tour with 2 of the greatest players in the history of the league?
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
94,957
76,778
Joshua Tree, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Yes, and my overarching point is that it doesn't matter if you completely bottom out like Buff or "kinda" bottom out like Detroit. There's a ton of luck involved in the draft process and we benefited considerably.

So there's no guarantee either way. and to continue what others have said: if there's not 100% certainty that path X will lead to future success, why don't we enjoy our nostalgia tour with 2 of the greatest players in the history of the league?

I agree. I think Aurora's point is stupid. Just saying he has a point.

Any gatekeeping of fandom in my eyes is stupid. Just because I'm a smarter hockey fan then everyone on HFPens doesn't mean I'm a better person :)
 

AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,735
17,084
Vancouver, British Columbia
How do you know other than the next 1 or 2 drafts, how are you to know how good a particular draft class will be past the top pick(s)?
Because anyone who's read about the 2025 draft class knows it's particularly deep, extending beyond the top 3. It's a better percentage year, one that should be taken advantage of.
You seem to believe the Pens can just draft there way out of this, when in reality they are drafting fillers where they'll be selecting and not the next core. They could be a decade or more before the "Next Core" is doing anything tangible.

Are you ready for that?
I don't think you are pushing the narrative you are.
Yes. 100%. You doubt me because you don't know me, and make arrogant assumptions anyway.
As long as they try their damnest to strive towards a Cup every year, I will support it and watch every game. I would rather watch 82 games of what the Sharks did last year than what the Pens did, because at least one team is actually serious about trying to get to the top of the mountain. They care. The Penguins no longer do. Not really.

Drafting and asset hoarding is the way out of this. That's how you build a new foundation. You sure as hell don't do it by what they're doing right now.
All this leads to is Minnesota Wild territory. That is not a direction a fan should support imo.
Believe it or not sports are entertainment and for fun and a distraction from real life. not some weird computer simulation where fan satisfaction is solely determined by results.

It’s more fun when the team is good sure, but many of us want to see the best 2 players of this era (IMO) never don another jersey and don’t really care about the consequences (real or perceived). To ignore there’s a human element is misguided, in my opinion.
That's the thing you're having difficulty understanding. It's less fun when you go into a year knowing your team has no chance to win and has no real ambition to get back there. At least that's how it is for me, since I'm still a fan of the actual team, and not just 3 players.
It's a hopeless feeling in the off-seasons, where we just look mildly at pretender moves, doomed to do this crap for 3-4 more years. There is nothing interesting or exciting about that.
If years are to be fruitless in terms of playoffs, I would prefer they do what is necessary to rebuild a proper foundation during this time, rather than finish 9th place and get stuck in purgatory.
Also- to act like there’s a guarantee that moving the core will result in a good things and that holding on to them won’t is disingenuous.
The return on Sid, and utilizing the 39 million in cap you'd otherwise spend on him to acquire futures, is definitely the way to go here.
Keeping Sid makes us draft worse, prevents trades and departures we need to happen, and slows down progress towards Cups.
There are no guarantees with drafting and youth, but the math starts to get good when you account for all these picks and assets that would come as a result of this.
The only value in keeping him is the emotional payoff, of seeing him retire a Penguin. And sorry, but that just doesn't transcend the needs of the team and its future.
Besides, if he stays, he's only doing so out of a sense of guilt, loyalty and staying in his comfort zone. I know he'd end up happier in Colorado, chasing Cups with Mac, after he adjusts to the new environment.
He wants to compete in the playoffs. He doesn't wanna golf in April. And he doesn't want to end his career not having won a round for 10 years.
He's just too noble to prioritize himself.

So basically what you guys are supporting is making him have a miserable end to his career, while at the same time sabotaging the development of the team's prospect pool. Huge fans lol.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
35,325
29,906
Yes... WE'RE totally the ones dropping the ball on the end of Sid's career. We're definitely advocating that they keep the same stale coach and continue to mismanage the roster. We're definitely in control of that and all of us are super happy that management and coaching are utterly hamfisting the job. We love that!

The straws... you are grasping for them.

EDIT: Also interesting that you know what Sid wants and what would make him happy. Tell us more!
 

CheckingLineCenter

Registered User
Aug 10, 2018
8,932
9,659
That's the thing you're having difficulty understanding. It's less fun when you go into a year knowing your team has no chance to win and has no real ambition to get back there. At least that's how it is for me, since I'm still a fan of the actual team, and not just 3 players.
It's a hopeless feeling in the off-seasons, where we just look mildly at pretender moves, doomed to do this crap for 3-4 more years. There is nothing interesting or exciting about that.
If years are to be fruitless in terms of playoffs, I would prefer they do what is necessary to rebuild a proper foundation during this time, rather than finish 9th place and get stuck in purgatory.
The return on Sid, and utilizing the 39 million in cap you'd otherwise spend on him to acquire futures, is definitely the way to go here.
Keeping Sid makes us draft worse, prevents trades and departures we need to happen, and slows down progress towards Cups.
There are no guarantees with drafting and youth, but the math starts to get good when you account for all these picks and assets that would come as a result of this.
The only value in keeping him is the emotional payoff, of seeing him retire a Penguin. And sorry, but that just doesn't transcend the needs of the team and its future.
Besides, if he stays, he's only doing so out of a sense of guilt, loyalty and staying in his comfort zone. I know he'd end up happier in Colorado, chasing Cups with Mac, after he adjusts to the new environment.
He wants to compete in the playoffs. He doesn't wanna golf in April. And he doesn't want to end his career not having won a round for 10 years.
He's just too noble to prioritize himself.

So basically what you guys are supporting is making him have a miserable end to his career, while at the same time sabotaging the development of the team's prospect pool. Huge fans lol.
you cannot post the bolded sections and think anyone is taking you seriously :laugh:

you really dont get to govern other people’s fandom. But I know you dont have any inkling of what is going on in Sid’s head. jfc man, get a grip. :laugh:

I think you need to step back and realize that an HF poll has no bearing on what Dubas/FSG do in reality.
 

AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,735
17,084
Vancouver, British Columbia
I agree. I think Aurora's point is stupid. Just saying he has a point.

Any gatekeeping of fandom in my eyes is stupid. Just because I'm a smarter hockey fan then everyone on HFPens doesn't mean I'm a better person :)
You don't know what gatekeeping is, very clearly. I'm not preventing or attempting to prevent people from doing anything.
I'm just identifying what is happening.

One is simply not a fan of the team as a whole if they are willing to throw 5 years away for a retirement tour of 3 players.
They are fans of said 3 players.
That's not inherently a good or bad thing, either. It's just the state of affairs.

The problem is the majority of people here keep pretending they care about the team, when they actually don't give a f*** anymore about their future. They're satisfied.

Shouldn't they just own it?
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
35,325
29,906
So wait those like 15 years before Sid and co. were even here don't count? I seem to recall following the team VERY closely without them. But I must be mistaken.

Too bad I can't subtract those years not just from this bizarre reality we've created here but also from ACTUAL reality. Why... I'd be in my 20s, again!

EDIT: And possibly better at math
 
Last edited:

AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,735
17,084
Vancouver, British Columbia
you cannot post the bolded sections and think anyone is taking you seriously :laugh:

you really dont get to govern other people’s fandom. But I know you dont have any inkling of what is going on in Sid’s head. jfc man, get a grip. :laugh:

I think you need to step back and realize that an HF poll has no bearing on what Dubas/FSG do in reality.
Identifying a situation and governing are two entirely different things. You guys can do what you want. I just think it's f***ed up to claim to support a team when you don't actually care about their success anymore. Actually, I know it's f***ed up.

Sid's a simpleton who's played hockey all his life. It's not hard to know. 18 years of interviews now. He's never changed.
If you still don't know at this point, that means you weren't paying attention.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,972
19,475
Pittsburgh
Yes. 100%. You doubt me because you don't know me, and make arrogant assumptions anyway.
As long as they try their damnest to strive towards a Cup every year, I will support it and watch every game. I would rather watch 82 games of what the Sharks did last year than what the Pens did, because at least one team is actually serious about trying to get to the top of the mountain. They care. The Penguins no longer do. Not really.


Drafting and asset hoarding is the way out of this. That's how you build a new foundation. You sure as hell don't do it by what they're doing right now.
All this leads to is Minnesota Wild territory. That is not a direction a fan should support imo.


Then go be a Sharks fan then. Because, they were a failed concept years removed of their top core players being let go and not a 4 time finalist winning 3 cups. These are two totally different teams and what's deserving to be scoffed at.

The Pens have yet to let go of their core players.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
94,957
76,778
Joshua Tree, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
You don't know what gatekeeping is, very clearly. I'm not preventing or attempting to prevent people from doing anything.
I'm just identifying what is happening.

One is simply not a fan of the team as a whole if they are willing to throw 5 years away for a retirement tour of 3 players.
They are fans of said 3 players.
That's not inherently a good or bad thing, either. It's just the state of affairs.

The problem is the majority of people here keep pretending they care about the team, when they actually don't give a f*** anymore about their future. They're satisfied.

Shouldn't they just own it?

“I’m not gate keeping”

“People pretend they are fans of the team, but really they are fans of players”

How is this not gatekeeping?
 

AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,735
17,084
Vancouver, British Columbia
Then go be a Sharks fan then. Because, they were a failed concept years removed of their top core players being let go and not a 4 time finalist winning 3 cups. These are two totally different teams and what's deserving to be scoffed at.

The Pens have yet to let go of their core players.
At least they were trying their best to win, even if management failed. I can respect the effort.
The Pens used to try, which was the reason we got all 5 Cups. I miss seeing that desire. It's sad to see that others here don't, and instead want Minnesota east.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
35,325
29,906
My man... based on all the unbridled whinging we do... would you REALLY call us content?

Like... sure... we love that this team has had all the success it has and it keeps us grounded and things in perspective. But I would call very few if any of us "content" these days. More or less everyone who doesn't have the pom poms stapled permanently to their hands acknowledges that this team is dropping the ball hard and lately evidently just... giving up. What has led you to believe we're cool with that?
 

AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,735
17,084
Vancouver, British Columbia
“I’m not gate keeping”

“People pretend they are fans of the team, but really they are fans of players”

How is this not gatekeeping?
Because that's not an ACT. I'm not interfering. I'm just stating what is happening.
It's like saying the sky is blue. Same concept.

You're misquoting me anyway. I said they're fans of 3 players, not the team as a whole. They've made that abundantly clear in this thread and others.
They are okay with the team sitting on their thumbs for 5 years, not interested in getting closer to championships at all.

The truth is the truth, no matter how people try to twist shit.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,972
19,475
Pittsburgh
Because that's not an ACT. I'm not interfering. I'm just stating what is happening.
It's like saying the sky is blue. Same concept.

You're misquoting me anyway. I said they're fans of 3 players, not the team as a whole. They've made that abundantly clear in this thread and others.
They are okay with the team sitting on their thumbs for 5 years, not interested in getting closer to championships at all.

The truth is the truth, no matter how people try to twist shit.
At least they were trying their best to win, even if management failed. I can respect the effort.
The Pens used to try, which was the reason we got all 5 Cups. I miss seeing that desire. It's sad to see that others here don't, and instead want Minnesota east.

So your biggest issue is they are fallowing up on a predetermined scheduled screen play they drew up many years ago. The Three Amigos riding off into the sunset.

iu
 

AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,735
17,084
Vancouver, British Columbia
My man... based on all the unbridled whinging we do... would you REALLY call us content?

Like... sure... we love that this team has had all the success it has and it keeps us grounded and things in perspective. But I would call very few if any of us "content" these days. More or less everyone who doesn't have the pom poms stapled permanently to their hands acknowledges that this team is dropping the ball hard and lately evidently just... giving up. What has led you to believe we're cool with that?
Absolutely. The hunger for championships is gone from two-thirds of the board. It's as clear as day.
What's left is spite for Sullivan for years he failed in which the Pens were still contenders.

What has led me to believe that? How about wanting the team to pay Sid 39 million over the next 4 years, when the window is already closed? Essentially burning close to half of a team's annual cap space and the potential return for him, accomplishing nothing but slowing down progress in the process.

If they actually wanted Cups, they would support the team doing what is necessary to get back there. But instead they want a retirement tour, while the team sacrifices the quality of the prospect pool when the team comes out of it.

For me that's kinda repulsive, since I came here to talk to people who care about the team.
 

AuroraBorealis

Back-to-back hater
Oct 16, 2018
19,735
17,084
Vancouver, British Columbia
So your biggest issue is they are fallowing up on a predetermined scheduled screen play they drew up many years ago. The Three Amigos riding off into the sunset.
Should have been blown up in summer 2022, before all those deals were handed out. Said so at the time.
2024-25 would be year 3 of the rebuild already, and they'd be poised to cash in at the 2025 draft.
But instead we got two bubble-outs and we're about to lock Sid into not winning a round for the final 10 years of his career.

I mean yeah, I have a big problem with all of this.
In what year will the team actually get serious again?
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

ti kallisti
May 31, 2004
35,325
29,906
Repulsive? Really? I'm sorry to sound combative but if THAT repulses you you need to get your priorities in order.

You seem to think that dumping arguably the greatest player in franchise history suddenly makes them "serious about Cups." This seems to be what your whole point hinges on as far as I can tell. To sit here and say something like that while calling the rest of us foolish and not real fans of the team or whatever is... something else.

I'm done with this. You should be, too.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,972
19,475
Pittsburgh
Should have been blown up in summer 2022, before all those deals were handed out. Said so at the time.
2024-25 would be year 3 of the rebuild already, and they'd be poised to cash in at the 2025 draft.
But instead we got two bubble-outs and we're about to lock Sid into not winning a round for the final 10 years of his career.

I mean yeah, I have a big problem with all of this.
In what year will the team actually get serious again?

They said this was going to happen. Sorry you don't understand being loyal to players who were loyal to the team and took many discounted contracts. Of course it would be nice to move on and recoup, but that was "NEVER" in the cards.

This was talked about a decade ago.

It will be a bout a decade when this team is serious about anything. Maybe longer.

So.... Why are you here?

This was all preordained before you hitched yourself to this site.
 

CheckingLineCenter

Registered User
Aug 10, 2018
8,932
9,659
Identifying a situation and governing are two entirely different things. You guys can do what you want. I just think it's f***ed up to claim to support a team when you don't actually care about their success anymore. Actually, I know it's f***ed up.

Sid's a simpleton who's played hockey all his life. It's not hard to know. 18 years of interviews now. He's never changed.
If you still don't know at this point, that means you weren't paying attention.
Nah I’m just enough of an adult that I can stomach a sports team not winning and still enjoy them :laugh::laugh:

Not even bothering to address the garbage that is your second paragraph.. but if I did.. consider the arrogance it takes to suggest a grown man you’ve never met doesn’t know what’s best for himself and you do.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Sully-Quinn: Idiots Squared
Jan 30, 2012
78,544
43,708
At this point if Sid doesn't sign, he's an epic dickhead for convincing Geno and Letang to stay while he bails knowing this franchise is a joke now.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
94,957
76,778
Joshua Tree, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
You know fans have gotten truly deranged when they think support Sid, Geno and Letang is “not caring about winning”.

Jesus, going to be miserable for some of this fan base when they get hit with the reality that this team will likely never be as good as they were over the Sid era in the history of the franchise moving forward.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Sully-Quinn: Idiots Squared
Jan 30, 2012
78,544
43,708
He's having his agent find teams for them to go to, that's what's taking so long
Crosby has signed late for extensions before, so that's nothing new, if you go back and look at each time he's signed extensions, some were pretty late like August or even September, but it makes for fun speculation I guess.
You know fans have gotten truly deranged when they think support Sid, Geno and Letang is “not caring about winning”.

Jesus, going to be miserable for some of this fan base when they get hit with the reality that this team will likely never be as good as they were over the Sid era in the history of the franchise moving forward.

Supporting Sid, Geno, and Letang isn't caring about winning? I think if they think that then they're missing why the f***ing team isn't winning. It's the wanker in my avatar and thinking his twin is the fix for his coaching staff that is "not caring about winning."

We had the longest period of success in a franchise player and we now see it being pissed away because ownership has a f***ing titanium hard on for Sullivan and Kindergarten Kyle is a f***ing dipshit that can't see the bigger picture of how to fix this team. Keeping all 3 would be fine if the team actually fired the coach, tried something new, but instead they're heading into keeping the longest tenured coach this team has ever had and the only coach to miss back 2 back playoffs in Crosby's tenure - also with Crosby playing all 82 games back 2 back as well.

So there's no "this GM wasted..." no, it's "This coach wasted whatever gas these 3 had left in the tank" because ownership fell in love with Sullivan.
 
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bambamcam4ever

107 and counting
Feb 16, 2012
14,870
6,993
At least they were trying their best to win, even if management failed. I can respect the effort.
The Pens used to try, which was the reason we got all 5 Cups. I miss seeing that desire. It's sad to see that others here don't, and instead want Minnesota east.
Minnesota became Minnesota because they built around players who weren't good enough to carry the team to a cup. And they still continue to try to complete without ever rebuilding. The Penguins are doing the opposite of that, they're allowing themselves to slowly get worse until they hit the bottom. Just a bizarre comparison.

Should have been blown up in summer 2022, before all those deals were handed out. Said so at the time.
2024-25 would be year 3 of the rebuild already, and they'd be poised to cash in at the 2025 draft.
But instead we got two bubble-outs and we're about to lock Sid into not winning a round for the final 10 years of his career.

I mean yeah, I have a big problem with all of this.
In what year will the team actually get serious again?
No, they'd still have Crosby, who is still too good to let the team cash in next draft. Unless you think they were going to try to force the guy out and waive his NMC?
 

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