Would an all-time team Germany be enough for them to compete for gold in best on best?

[MaxV]

Czech were loaded for like 3 years in turn of the millenium, they’re not better all time team than Finland, Sweden, USA, Russia and Canada, there really isn’t even a argument to be made for them.

Well maybe someone can post the all time rosters and we can compare.

But again, you can't judge strictly based NHL careers.

Finns and Swedes have been able to freely play in NHL for many years and only in the last few decades they've been a significant source of NHL talent. Czech, Slovak and Russian players have been far more restricted before 1990.

EDIT: I would add USA also, btw. Until about late-80s, USA hockey was mediocre.

 

[OKR]

And before that Czechs spanked them (Finland) for over 60 years. Right now Czechs are nowhere near Finland, but there's over 100 years of hockey and Czechs were competitive (atleast compared to other european nations) for most of that time, Finland joined top nations much later.

Comparing them to Sweden...depends how you rank players that had to stay behind Iron Courtain.

Czechoslovakia doesn’t count as Czech in this, and even then you would have to apply some serious bias to make them rise above Finland, Sweden is so far ahead of them it’s not even worth discussing.

 

[lamini]

Czechoslovakia doesn’t count as Czech in this, and even then you would have to apply some serious bias to make them rise above Finland, Sweden is so far ahead of them it’s not even worth discussing.

So you wouldn't count Tretiak, Kharlamov, KLM for Russia?

Maybe you also shouldn't count German players that played before 1990...this was also different country, it just merged with another one instead of spliting

 

[Albatros]

Maybe you also shouldn't count German players that played before 1990...this was also different country, it just merged with another one instead of spliting

That is incorrect, the Federal Republic of Germany continued to exist as before. It only welcomed new member states in 1990 after the German Democratic Republic had been dissolved.

 

[lamini]

That is incorrect, the Federal Republic of Germany continued to exist as before. It only welcomed new member states in 1990 after the German Democratic Republic had been dissolved.

Than Czech republic continued to exist, just wasn't part of Czechoslovakian Federal Republic (Czechoslovakia was federation of two republics), but OK....still it puts Czechs, Slovaks and Russians in massive disavantage by not counting their players that played before 90s

 

[OKR]

So you wouldn't count Tretiak, Kharlamov, KLM for Russia?

Maybe you also shouldn't count German players that played before 1990...this was also different country, it just merged with another one instead of spliting

Well i didn’t tbf, but counting them wouldn’t change their rank one bit one way or another.

How many of those playing before the split you think would make it in the all-time Czech team and be a serious factor? It’s not that many, especislly considering big part of their accomplishments were before they allowed pro players.

Also you might need to work on your history knowledge about Germany.

 

[MaxV]

If Czechoslovakia doesn't count, then neither would USSR.

 

[MaxV]

Well i didn’t tbf, but counting them wouldn’t change their rank one bit one way or another.

How many of those playing before the split you think would make it in the all-time Czech team and be a serious factor? It’s not that many, especislly considering big part of their accomplishments were before they allowed pro players.

Also you might need to work on your history knowledge about Germany.

Ummm ... more then half of the team.

 

[MaxV]

OKR, you are underrating pre-90s Czechs.

Yes, they didn't win as much as the Soviets (their depth wasn't on par), but they certainly had top end talent.

 

[lamini]

How many of those playing before the split you think would make it in the all-time Czech team and be a serious factor? It’s not that many, especislly considering big part of their accomplishments were before they allowed pro players.

Like half the team? They played in Canada Cup against NHL players and also against USSR that IMO had NHL level talent

Also players that managed to get to NHL did well there

 

[OKR]

Like half the team? They played in Canada Cup against NHL players and also against USSR that IMO had NHL level talent

Also players that managed to get to NHL did well there

They came second once in Canada Cup and that was the year Soviet’s didn’t have all their key players.

Best Czech players ever, even if you would count the Czechoslovakia, were in the late 90’s to early 2000’s.

You’re clearly not taking into consideration the level of competion both teams faced.

 

[lamini]

They came second once in Canada Cup and that was the year Soviet’s didn’t have all their key players.

They played against top Soviet teams many times and while weaker than them, their top talent was often similar (Soviets were just much deeper). Also players from Czechoslovakian league that deflected were definitely NHL level players.

Best Czech players ever, even if you would count the Czechoslovakia, were in the late 90’s to early 2000’s.

Best 2 were definitely in that period (both IMO better than anything Finland produced so far), 3rd wouldn't, best defender wouldn't.

 

[OKR]

They played against top Soviet teams many times and while weaker than them, their top talent was often similar (Soviets were just much deeper). Also players from Czechoslovakian league that deflected were definitely NHL level players.



Best 2 were definitely in that period (both IMO better than anything Finland produced so far), 3rd wouldn't, best defender wouldn't.

You’re not taking the competition to consideration at all. Nedomansky, Hlinka and Martinec for example were great players at their time, no chance they’re considered in to the best players of all time tho. They literally were playing against non-pro british players, and were clearly behind in scoring compared to their Soviet counterparts.

 

[canuck2010]

Kölzig grew up in Canada (NS, Edmonton, and northern BC) - and is definitely a product of Canada's minor and junior system. But he's not Canadian.
Fun fact: he was initially selected to Canada's world junior squad in '89 - but they ultimately had to rescind because he wasn't (and still isn't) a Canadian citizen.

Thanks for the correction, I had no idea that he never became a Canadian citizen. By the way I have family in Berlin and have spent some fun times there. Markthalle Neun street food Thursday followed up by a few drinks at the Absinthe Depot is pretty fine lol.

 

[Zenos]

Thanks for the correction, I had no idea that he never became a Canadian citizen. By the way I have family in Berlin and have spent some fun times there. Markthalle Neun street food Thursday followed up by a few drinks at the Absinthe Depot is pretty fine lol.

The Markthalle is always a nice place to try out some different stuff. They've got a pretty good little brewery in there too (Heidenpeters).
Though I've never been to the Absinthe Depot before as it's in a part of town I rarely frequent, maybe I'll give it a go whenever bars open-up again

 

[lamini]

You’re not taking the competition to consideration at all. Nedomansky, Hlinka and Martinec for example were great players at their time, no chance they’re considered in to the best players of all time tho. They literally were playing against non-pro british players, and were clearly behind in scoring compared to their Soviet counterparts.

I think Peter Stastny did OK against NHL level of competiton and he wasn't some Gretzky compared to other Czechoslovak talent of that time.

 

[Eye of Ra]

If you compare purely from NHL career's then obviously Sweden is better, but just like Russia, Czech's have been producing great players before 1990. Yes, some were able to defect and play in NHL, but mostly when they were past their primes.

Sweden had many great players before 90s too.

for exemple..

 

[OKR]

I think Peter Stastny did OK against NHL level of competiton and he wasn't some Gretzky compared to other Czechoslovak talent of that time.

Yeah but that’s also only one player who was the best of the bunch, and he is about as Czech as Zdeno Chara is tbh.

 

[canuck2010]

The Markthalle is always a nice place to try out some different stuff. They've got a pretty good little brewery in there too (Heidenpeters).
Though I've never been to the Absinthe Depot before as it's in a part of town I rarely frequent, maybe I'll give it a go whenever bars open-up again

Yes the beer was good there lol. The Depot is a good spot for a nightcap or two.

 

[lamini]

Yeah but that’s also only one player who was the best of the bunch, and he is about as Czech as Zdeno Chara is tbh.

I never said he was Czech, I said that he was one of top players in the league (but he wasn't head and shoulders above the rest), so other players that were same level as him would probably be NHL level players too. Or you think there was one top 100 players all time and than bunch of below NHL level players?

 

[OKR]

I never said he was Czech, I said that he was one of top players in the league (but he wasn't head and shoulders above the rest), so other players that were same level as him would probably be NHL level players too. Or you think there was one top 100 players all time and than bunch of below NHL level players?

When talking about Team Czech it would probably make more sense to mention Czech players but alright. And no i don’t, but he was clearly the best there, not by the margin Draisaitl for example is currently the best from Germany, but still noticeably better than the rest. Statsny and ”probably some” isn’t enough to overtake Finland and Sweden in all-time comparison.

 

[lamini]

When talking about Team Czech it would probably make more sense to mention Czech players but alright. And no i don’t, but he was clearly the best there, not by the margin Draisaitl for example is currently the best from Germany, but still noticeably better than the rest. Statsny and ”probably some” isn’t enough to overtake Finland and Sweden in all-time comparison.

I used him since there are no top Czech players that left during their prime and he was considered similar level to some other Czech players. But even considering just players that played in NHL, i think you still overrate strength of Finland compared to Czech (but on NHL players alone, Sweden is clearly ahead)

 

[Bure80]

And no i don’t, but he was clearly the best there, not by the margin Draisaitl for example is currently the best from Germany, but still noticeably better than the rest. Statsny and ”probably some” isn’t enough to overtake Finland and Sweden in all-time comparison.

Thats questionable. Some who saw Kühnhackl play told me he would be a star in the NHL. These players got similar salaries in Germany. Kühnhackl wanted to play for the NT. Thats why he refused to play in NA. Just to rank on NHL stats in these era makes no sense.
Here are some scenes. Look at his size. He was build for NHL.

 

[Albatros]

From a German perspective comparing Draisaitl to Kühnhackl is a bit like comparing Connor McDavid to Gordie Howe.

 

[MadArcand]

When talking about Team Czech it would probably make more sense to mention Czech players but alright. And no i don’t, but he was clearly the best there, not by the margin Draisaitl for example is currently the best from Germany, but still noticeably better than the rest. Statsny and ”probably some” isn’t enough to overtake Finland and Sweden in all-time comparison.

Peter Stastny wasn't even the best player on his team, let alone in the league before he emigrated.