World Juniors vs World Championships in Europe

[Atas2000]

Which is more popular in Europe?

Obviously in Canada the WJC get way more attention. Probably USA too.

This is why Canada is weird. No really, to value a junior tournament more IS weird.

 

[Lepardi]

Of course. There are also people who commit suicides. I was talking about sane people. There are also no doubt many Canadians who root for the opposing team whenever Canada plays, just to "be different from the crowd". But these are the HF Boards and the talk is about hockey fans.

We've got a Finnish hockey fan in this very thread who says he rooted for Denmark on Wednesday. Post number 59. It's not only football fans who root for the other team, it's also very fashionable among people who consider themselves "real hardcore hockey fans". They find it irritating when people who don't follow hockey 24/7 around the year suddenly get so excited about it in May. I've got an acquaintance who goes to see most of the home games of our local team in the Finnish Elite League and eagerly roots for Finland in the World Juniors but would like to see Finland get relegated in the men's tournament.

Do you think these people are insane or not really hockey fans?

 

[Jablkon]

Back on topic though, and since this useless thread comes back every year. The World Juniors don't matter at all expect in Canada. While the Senior Worlds have a very good following everywhere else except in USA. Canada right now TSN is all over it and showing almost every game.

Good you speak on behalf of all other states. Its uncomparable to Canada or to WHC in terms of general interest but based on TV and media coverage, it matters a lot. True is youth development crisis has big influence on it. Basically those WjCs have been somehow followed since this crisis started.

 

[Snippit]

This is why Canada is weird. No really, to value a junior tournament more IS weird.

Cause WJC is pretty close to best on best.

WHC is not particularly close to that.

 

[Jablkon]

We've got a Finnish hockey fan in this very thread who says he rooted for Denmark on Wednesday. Post number 59. It's not only football fans who root for the other team, it's also very fashionable among people who consider themselves "real hardcore hockey fans". They find it irritating when people who don't follow hockey 24/7 around the year suddenly get so excited about it in May. I've got an acquaintance who goes to see most of the home games of our local team in the Finnish Elite League and eagerly roots for Finland in the World Juniors but would like to see Finland get relegated in the men's tournament.

Do you think these people are insane or not really hockey fans?

If he wanted his team to get relegated, thats pretty insane if you ask me

 

[Atas2000]

Cause WJC is pretty close to best on best.

WHC is not particularly close to that.

How is WJC close to best on bes? There are players of a very narrow age group not to mention they are still juniors. There is that recent hype about junior hockey and it's fun to watch, but is is not remotely close to any competition free of an age restriction.

 

[IceHockeyDude]

WJC should be more appreciated because about 90% of the best prospects are there and at WC perhaps 10% of the best players are participating. WJC gives a much more realistic idea of the level of a hockey in each country.

 

[maclean]

WJC is more entertaining

Haha, this is ridiculous. Try actually watching the World Championship sometime. The Juniors are fine and good, but it's kids and you can tell. The quality of hockey is much much much much lower.

 

[Faterson]

We've got a Finnish hockey fan in this very thread who says he rooted for Denmark on Wednesday. [...] They find it irritating when people who don't follow hockey 24/7 around the year suddenly get so excited about it in May. [...] Do you think these people are insane or not really hockey fans?

Yup, that's insanity. Behaving irrationally just for the sake of "being different from the masses" strikes me as the definition of insanity.

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

Haha, this is ridiculous. Try actually watching the World Championship sometime. The Juniors are fine and good, but it's kids and you can tell. The quality of hockey is much much much much lower.

... what? Try actually understand that better quality is not the same as more entertaining (at least for me), WJC is more fun to watch because it's less tactical and more north-south. That is my opinion of course, can't have one in here?

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

Yup, that's insanity. Behaving irrationally just for the sake of "being different from the masses" strikes me as the definition of insanity.

Lol, you think I'm actually mentally "insane" because I root for Denmark in the game vs Finland ? Might want to take a look in the mirror pal if you are ready to jump in such conclusions. It's a game lol. Not my fault that this tournament has lost value because it's not best vs best and it's hosted every year.

 

[slovakiasnextone]

WJC should be more appreciated because about 90% of the best prospects are there and at WC perhaps 10% of the best players are participating. WJC gives a much more realistic idea of the level of a hockey in each country.

At the WJC you get players who end up playing in lower men's leagues in Europe alongside of future NHL stars.

Also for the smaller country, the IHWC is a much better indicator of the level of hockey as with the smaller number of players you get the talent spread over the years.

Slovakia has placed no worse than 8th at the WJC for the past 18 years including 5 top 6 placements. In that same time span the Swiss finished outside of the top 8 three times including one relegation and also has 5 top 6 finishes.

Yet would you argue that the level of Slovak hockey is better overall now than that of Swiss hockey?

 

[maclean]

... what? Try actually understand that better quality is not the same as more entertaining (at least for me), WJC is more fun to watch because it's less tactical and more north-south. That is my opinion of course, can't have one in here?

Of course you can have your opinion but it honestly sounds like you haven't ever watched the World Championship. Take last night's Czech Republic - Russia game, one of the most entertaining games I've seen in some time. Of course one's entertaininment I guess depends mostly on how much you're invested in something and if you've made the a priori decision not to be invested in your country's performance because you disrespect the tournament, that will influence how much you are entertained.

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

Of course you can have your opinion but it honestly sounds like you haven't ever watched the World Championship. Take last night's Czech Republic - Russia game, one of the most entertaining games I've seen in some time. Of course one's entertaininment I guess depends mostly on how much you're invested in something and if you've made the a priori decision not to be invested in your country's performance because you disrespect the tournament, that will influence how much you are entertained.

Yeah, that may be one of the reasons I don't find it as entertaining for sure. I like to watch the games for the individuals, but the outcome is not that significant for me. Maybe I am more invested for the team vs Canada, but the games against smaller countries I couldn't really care less who wins.

 

[IceHockeyDude]

At the WJC you get players who end up playing in lower men's leagues in Europe alongside of future NHL stars.

Yeah well you answered your own question. The future stars are there (or most) and also those who won't become NHL-level will be there. The same goes with every country from Canada, Sweden, Finland to Slovakia, Switzerland etc.

Also for the smaller country, the IHWC is a much better indicator of the level of hockey as with the smaller number of players you get the talent spread over the years.

I agree with this. WJC is a better indicater in each age-group. If you have a lot of success in the juniors let's say for 5 years in a row, you'll likely have a potential success in WC after that.

Slovakia has placed no worse than 8th at the WJC for the past 18 years including 5 top 6 placements. In that same time span the Swiss finished outside of the top 8 three times including one relegation and also has 5 top 6 finishes.

Yet would you argue that the level of Slovak hockey is better overall now than that of Swiss hockey?

I would say Swiss and Slovakia are pretty even. Perhaps the best Swiss prospects are better than Slovakia's but overall they are pretty even.

 

[Lepardi]

Not my fault that this tournament has lost value because it's not best vs best and it's hosted every year.

This is the classic argument the "real hardcore hockey fans" like to make when hyping up the WJC and telling how meaningless the men's tournament is. When you point out that the WJC isn't best vs best either, you often hear something like "yeah, well, practically all the best get the chance to play there". So in 2017 for instance McDavid, Marner, Provorov, Werenski, Zacha, Crouse, Konecny, Aho, Matthews, Laine, Puljujärvi, Tkachuk and Chychrun weren't among "the practically best". Makes sense.

 

[Lepardi]

Of course you can have your opinion but it honestly sounds like you haven't ever watched the World Championship. Take last night's Czech Republic - Russia game, one of the most entertaining games I've seen in some time.

What you don't understand is that when a Finn gets all excited about the WJC and finds the men's tournament utterly meaningless, he can almost feel like a Canadian himself, and Canadians are like SOOO much cooler than Finns are. They don't get way too drunk and wear stupid funny hats and outfits when watching hockey like Finnish rednecks do in May:

We have a very widely known pejorative term for the stereotypical hockey fan in funny clothing here in Finland: Karjala-lippis. That means "Karjala cap" and refers to the hats of a large Finnish bulk beer brand. Football fans are really eager to point out that smart people prefer to wear Stone Island or Fred Perry clothing instead cause that's what the hooligans used to wear in England and hooliganism is cool.


The guy I know here in Tampere for instance has never even traveled in Europe cause he's afraid of flying but when he scoffs at the Finnish national team fans in May and roots for Finland's opponents, he gets to feel like a true North American hockey connoisseur for two weeks.

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

This is the classic argument the "real hardcore hockey fans" like to make when hyping up the WJC and telling how meaningless the men's tournament is. When you point out that the WJC isn't best vs best either, you often hear something like "yeah, well, practically all the best get the chance to play there". So in 2017 for instance McDavid, Marner, Provorov, Werenski, Zacha, Crouse, Konecny, Aho, Matthews, Laine, Puljujärvi, Tkachuk and Chychrun weren't among "the practically best". Makes sense.

Who are you referring as a "hardcore hockey fan"? Me? I'm not trying to be pretendious, I just told the reasons of why these tournaments don't hold that much value for me. Could it be that those "hardcore fans" feel the same for similar reasons since they follow this sport more than a casual fan? Could it be that even some of the players feel like this given the several declines of even the KHLers? You don't have to get so emotional. And btw out of those players you listed only Laine, Chychrun and Puljujärvi were eligible for the 2017 WJC, so yeah... it's much closer to best vs best in comparison to the WHC. And the fact that we can even discuss of how much relevance freaking World Championships hold against a junior tournament should speak of the state of the tournament itself.

 

[Lepardi]

And btw out of those players you listed only Laine, Chychrun and Puljujärvi were eligible for the 2017 WJC, so yeah..

Tell me more about why players born in 1997 weren't eligible for the 2017 WJC?

 

[Hockeyisl1fe]

Tell me more about why players born in 1997 weren't eligible for the 2017 WJC?

Whoops, I mixed 2018 and 2017 up. Many top players were missing back then for sure yeah, but that season's rookie class was exceptionally great. I would say that's an exception to the rule. Funny that you didn't mention how many players were missing the last WJC for example, you couldn't provide me convincing enough of a list? On top of my head they were Patrick, Hischier, Chychrun, Keller, Puljujärvi and Laine.

 

[HomeAndHome]

Wow this thread took quite a left turn.

I was also curious which was more popular in Europe. Seems like World Championship's is by quite a bit.

Both tournaments can't be considered best-on-best, but I've always found WJC more entertaining (as a Canadian) because I see it as young players that have something to prove to potentially pave their way to the pro leagues, and what better way to do that than against other top players from different countries. I think the WC rosters are what turn me off there, to me it seems like the rosters are the best of who feels like going that year (maybe that's just Canada and USA though).

But I always find it interesting to read other perspectives

 

[Patrik Barkov]

2016 gold really helped growing WJC in Finland. Still WHC though.

 

[IceHockeyDude]

2016 gold really helped growing WJC in Finland. Still WHC though.

So did winning u20 2014 and u18 gold in 2016 and 2018

 

[Coinneach]

In the Czech Republic:

OG > WHC (it's so huuuuge here) >> World Cup >>> World Juniors.

 

[Urbanskog]

Not my fault that this tournament has lost value because it's not best vs best and it's hosted every year.

Its value has actually increased as it is now, with the NHL ceasing Olympic participation, the most important and highly contested international tournament in the sport.