World Cup SF: Sep 10 GDT - USA vs. Finland

Classic Devil · Sep 11, 2004

markov` said:
Kipper is sensational (no word game there) in this tournament, true. Better than Koivu, true. But when we talk about the best Fin ever, only Kurri, Selanne, Tikkanen and Koivu are in the race. I'd place Koivu 1st or 2nd.

Kurri
Selanne
Tikkanen
Koivu

markov` · Sep 11, 2004

Flame_Star_Devil said:
And Kiprusoff has backstopped Finland to the finals. He has heart too.
BTW, Koivu doesn't follow Kiprusoff either. Timonen does.

In this tournament, I totally agree. Koivu is the 3rd best player on the Finns.

But tell me what has Teemu Selanne done in the past 5 years. Or in the International competitions. Please.

Maybe I'd put Kurri and Tikkanen ahead of Koivu. But definitely not Selanne.

High flyin' Habs* · Sep 11, 2004

markov` said:
In this tournament, I totally agree. Koivu is the 3rd best player on the Finns.

But tell me what has Teemu Selanne done in the past 5 years. Or in the International competitions. Please.

Maybe I'd put Kurri and Tikkanen ahead of Koivu. But definitely not Selanne.

How is he the 3rd best on the team?? If it wasn't for him the Finns wouldn't be hear anyway.

markov` · Sep 11, 2004

smoothskater said:
How is he the 3rd best on the team?? If it wasn't for him the Finns wouldn't be hear anyway.

Timonen has more point than him and he's a defenseman. Look at the stats of Kiprusoff.

High flyin' Habs* · Sep 11, 2004

Its obvious that Koivu isn't the best Finn ever but he's deserving of being named the Finn captain and best player (although Kipper is close).

High flyin' Habs* · Sep 11, 2004

markov` said:
Timonen has more point than him and he's a defenseman. Look at the stats of Kiprusoff.

What happend to sticking up to your fellow hab fans and defending our captain?? Koivu is the leader of team Finland and if it wasn't for him they wouldn't be here.

Classic Devil · Sep 11, 2004

markov` said:
In this tournament, I totally agree. Koivu is the 3rd best player on the Finns.

But tell me what has Teemu Selanne done in the past 5 years. Or in the International competitions. Please.

Maybe I'd put Kurri and Tikkanen ahead of Koivu. But definitely not Selanne.

Career:

Koivu: 497GP 120G 278A 398PTS +10
Koivu is 29

Selanne: 879GP 452G 499A 951PTS +33
Selanne is 34

I take Selanne's career over Koivu's.

Classic Devil · Sep 11, 2004

smoothskater said:
Its obvious that Koivu isn't the best Finn ever but he's deserving of being named the Finn captain and best player (although Kipper is close).

Captain yes, no argument. Best player no, big argument.

markov` · Sep 11, 2004

smoothskater said:
What happend to sticking up to your fellow hab fans and defending our captain?? Koivu is the leader of team Finland and if it wasn't for him they wouldn't be here.

It's not a question of sticking up with anyone. To me, it isn't that obvious that Koivu isn't the best Finn ever. When he will retired, he will be seen as a definite better player than Esa Tikkanen, and probably close to Kurri too. I agree that the Finns wouldn't be there if it wasn't of Koivu. But he's the 3rd most valuable player to his team in this tournament.

markov` · Sep 11, 2004

Flame_Star_Devil said:
Career:

Koivu: 497GP 120G 278A 398PTS +10
Koivu is 29

Selanne: 879GP 452G 499A 951PTS +33
Selanne is 34

I take Selanne's career over Koivu's.

The big difference is the first years of Selanne. When the league was all offense. In those seasons, Koivu was not in the NHL.

High flyin' Habs* · Sep 11, 2004

Flame_Star_Devil said:
Career:

Koivu: 497GP 120G 278A 398PTS +10
Koivu is 29

Selanne: 879GP 452G 499A 951PTS +33
Selanne is 34

I take Selanne's career over Koivu's.

OK so Selane has a better career than Koivu who cares? Selane is doing nothing in the nhl lately and has no heart.

Classic Devil · Sep 11, 2004

markov` said:
The big difference is the first years of Selanne. When the league was all offense. In those seasons, Koivu was not in the NHL.

Agreed, but that's a drastic difference in numbers.

markov` · Sep 11, 2004

Flame_Star_Devil said:
Agreed, but that's a drastic difference in numbers.

Let's just compilate the numbers since the 95-96 season (Koivu's rookie year)

Koivu : 398 points in 497 games.

Selanne : 717 points in 699 games.

Little difference. But not huge. And we're not talking about defensive play, leadership and hard work here. Just points.

High flyin' Habs* · Sep 11, 2004

Flame_Star_Devil said:
Agreed, but that's a drastic difference in numbers.

In the NHL these days wouldn't you choose Koivu to play for your team over Selanne?

Classic Devil · Sep 11, 2004

markov` said:
Let's just compilate the numbers since the 95-96 season (Koivu's rookie year)

Koivu : 398 points in 497 games.

Selanne : 717 points in 699 games.

Little difference. But not huge. And we're not talking about defensive play, leadership and hard work here. Just points.

+300 points in +200 games? I think that's a pretty big discrepancy. Leadership goes to Koivu, as does defensive play, but it doesn't make up the difference. Especially if you add in 92-95.

Classic Devil · Sep 11, 2004

smoothskater said:
In the NHL these days wouldn't you choose Koivu to play for your team over Selanne?

Uh, yes? Of course! But that's not what we're arguing here.

markov` · Sep 11, 2004

smoothskater said:
In the NHL these days wouldn't you choose Koivu to play for your team over Selanne?

Flame_Star_Devil, answer to this question please.

EDIT. Oh, you did. Anyway, end of discussion, I need to go...

High flyin' Habs* · Sep 11, 2004

Yep lets end this here befor I get banned agian

.

HellsBells · Sep 11, 2004

markov` said:
With an even better goaltender (Lehtonen), the Finns will have a heck of a team

I know Lehtonen is highly touted and deservedly so, but there is no way he can play any better than Kiprusoff has over the last year. Lehtonen in his prime won't be any better than Kipper is right now IMO.

Heavy D · Sep 11, 2004

E = CHÂ² said:
Ok so we're tied. Time for Captain Courageous to make a difference. He's been in the right spots so far but has not made out the most out of his opportunities. Go Koivu Go !

Uncanny! On my way out to get my 6/49 numbers. Any advice?

miss hockey · Sep 11, 2004

Garfield said:
I know Lehtonen is highly touted and deservedly so, but there is no way he can play any better than Kiprusoff has over the last year. Lehtonen in his prime won't be any better than Kipper is right now IMO.

at his best, Kipper is as good as this
at his best, Lehtonen would set a new standard, like Roy

nomorekids · Sep 11, 2004

yeah, i'm also going to have to disagree that lehtonen will never be as good as kiprusoff is, now. i too think he'll be better.

HellsBells · Sep 11, 2004

nomorekids said:
yeah, i'm also going to have to disagree that lehtonen will never be as good as kiprusoff is, now. i too think he'll be better.

Of course you would. I just can't see how he can be any better than Kiprusoff has been over the last year.

I'll bet he'll be right on par with Vokoun, right ?? :lol

HellsBells · Sep 11, 2004

miss hockey said:
at his best, Kipper is as good as this
at his best, Lehtonen would set a new standard, like Roy

We'll see I guess but to compare someone who hasn't even gotten his feet wet to Patrick Roy is truly laughable.

nomorekids · Sep 11, 2004

Garfield said:
Of course you would. I just can't see how he can be any better than Kiprusoff has been over the last year.

I'll bet he'll be right on par with Vokoun, right ?? :lol

can you have a conversation without starting a fight?

sorry, man.

any Flame=Jesus.

World Cup SF: Sep 10 GDT - USA vs. Finland

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