World Cup Boycott

[Eisen]

IDK, I hear what you are saying, but has any sport ever been grown this way?

Take soccer for example. That's another sport North American mens teams just aren't good at and have a fifth rate league in world wide, but it seems the US much prefers watching their own NMT get eaten alive by a European country with a 25th the population size to having a competitive Rest of the two Americas team. The US actually making it to the WC lately thanks to the very easy North American qualifying round seems to have done the trick nothing else before has, people in the USA now actually watch the World Cup.

While the MLS is weaker than many leagues I find it harsh to call it 5th rate. It's not the 70s anymore.

 

[Jablkon]

Maybe its cause I'm from Canada but i like the Euro team. gives them a hell of a better chance of winning than it just being Slovakia?

I'm a huge basketball fan and if they made a top 8 plus rest of the world team(Canada being in the rest of the world) Id personally be happier than them picking the 9th best team. this way at least I would get to see the best players from my country.

I like the idea, I think it makes it more competitive, and is interesting

I dont have any issue with any teams, there is super six in Rugby, if you want europeans leftovers, u 23, whatever, if somebody feel, that WHC is designed for Europe, I get it, have what you like. Just leave one tourney acceptable everybody - OG.

 

[TorstenFrings]

While the MLS is weaker than many leagues I find it harsh to call it 5th rate. It's not the 70s anymore.

Sorry, maybe 5th rate is slightly too harsh, but I just stumbled into an MLS game on Eurosport 1 yesterday (Philadelphia Union, is that a team name, against something Montreal) and it was just soooooo slow it was ****ing ridiculous. Definitely about the level of the 3rd or 4th German league, some nicer one off tricks from the old world class player having a last hurray there, but slow as all ****.

 

[patnyrnyg]

The problem is that all of those games cost money, and the NHL would have to pick up the bill. Renting an arena, travel expenses and accommodations, insurance costs and so on. Those games (Denmark vs Slovakia, for instance) are not going to draw big crowds anywhere and no broadcaster would bother showing them. The NHL's main issue with international hockey is about money - why would the NHL implement a qualifying system that is guaranteed to lose money?.

It will cost money, but not that much relatively speaking. If the NHL is going to be footing the bill, then people better not complain when they reap the rewards either. Besides, they'll get sponsors. They'll get a network to broadcast it. Networks have complained about the pre-season games in the NFL fr years. NFL laughs at them. If it is strictly an NHL project, they'll get NBC to carry the games here in the US, they'll get Sportsnet (or whoever) to carry the games in Canada. They'll then tell the networks in Europe, that it is an all or nothing package. Carry the qualifiers or you don't get the real tournament. If it does turn into best on best, someone will pick it up.

If they don't think it will sell out, they do not need to have the qualifier games in huge arenas. So while they might lose some on the qualifiers, it might be worth it long-term. Unfortunately, these guys no longer think long-term. It is all about the immediate ROI.

The other option is to skip the qualifier and just have the top-8 countries or top-6. Or, (doubt this would ever happen) invite every nation represented in the NHL.

If they did someday implement some kind of qualifier, the National Federations and the IIHF would have to kick in some cash. If they do, then I would say they deserve to get some of the profits, as well.

 

[patnyrnyg]

IDK, I hear what you are saying, but has any sport ever been grown this way?

Take soccer for example. That's another sport North American mens teams just aren't good at and have a fifth rate league in world wide, but it seems the US much prefers watching their own NMT get eaten alive by a European country with a 25th the population size to having a competitive Rest of the two Americas team. The US actually making it to the WC lately thanks to the very easy North American qualifying round seems to have done the trick nothing else before has, people in the USA now actually watch the World Cup.

eaten alive? Maybe there is a translation issue, but they haven't been eaten alive since the 98 World Cup. They had a rough showing in 2006, but in 2002 made the 1/4's. In the last 2 they have made it to the knock-out stage losing in extra time in both games. So, while I certainly do not think they are ever a threat to win it all, they hardly get eaten alive.

 

[Jablkon]

I don't like the NHL shutting down for the Olympics and would rather have a World Cup, well a real World Cup. However, once every four years, if they continue, is not a big deal. But if soccer can make the Olympics a U23 (?) tourney, and their big event is a World Cup outside of the Olympics, why can't hockey do the same? You can't tell me the Olympics being the best of each country is some long standing traditions since it has only been done since 1998.

The NHL is a business first and foremost, and a big business at that. Just like any other business, why would they not try to make money on something they think they can do just to let someone else make the money? If the lower leagues in Europe want to shut down, for the Olympics, so be it. Enjoy your JV tournament. Like I said in my other post, to get a REAL World Cup like they have in soccer, at the very least the NHL would have to work with the KHL. Even better would be to work with the IIHF, the governing bodies and the top league in each country.

Thats quite out of my understanding. Only the name is the same. If this should be the attempt, it is the worst attempt ever. They couldnt be serious with adding those two teams if they want to start something at least 10% similar to soccer World cup. But ok, let it be. Take 12 teams, make qualifications, have it in 4 years circle in September and rotate over the world as WHC. And than you get to the same problem. Income distribution, and that is where NHL make everybody pissed. They dont want to allow IIHF to make smth like this and grab the income. Btw do soccer leagues benefit from World cup? I doubt. Nhl is not an entity which is able to organize int. Events in longterm perspective imo. They dont do anything for int hockey, they will always struggle to have general support from federations. Federations always use any opportunity to get away from NHL....

 

[Oilception]

Yeah, and next year I hope that the NHL takes all of the non-playoff teams and combines the best players to make the eighth seeds in each conference. What competitive, interesting teams those would be.

Sure, Ive been craving to see some Oilers in the Playoffs for 10 years now!

and lets be real a super team of players who didnt make the playoffs would win for sure

 

[TorstenFrings]

eaten alive? Maybe there is a translation issue, but they haven't been eaten alive since the 98 World Cup. They had a rough showing in 2006, but in 2002 made the 1/4's. In the last 2 they have made it to the knock-out stage losing in extra time in both games. So, while I certainly do not think they are ever a threat to win it all, they hardly get eaten alive.

You are talking stat lines though, not the actual game. It happens in every sport. Bad team plays defensively and loses with a decent enough score. ****ing Algeria took Germany to extra time in 2014. Latvia lost only 1:2 to Canada in the Olympic hockey tournament QF.

It did forget about 2002 though, I will absolutely give you that. I was totally drunk until the finals all summer due to it being my graduation year. Just looked it up and South Korea and Turkey made the semifinals. Sounds like it would have been a good year to have stayed sober. Hindsight, what can you do?

Edit: We are also getting kinda derailed though. The question should be: Do you prefer watching the USNMT or would you rather a competitive Rest of the Americas team with players from everywhere not Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay

 

[CanuckCity]

Maybe the problem is that we're trying to directly compare it to the Olympics/IIHF tournaments? (not saying that isnt what its being marketed as, but maybe that's the problem)

This, as 'gimmicky' as it may seem, gives us an opportunity to see player combinations we wouldn't normally ever see. And at a highly competitive level too (hopefully). Which is what we all want, no? Obviously it wont have the same nationalistic pride on the line as the Olympics but there is still potential elsewhere.

I mean at the very least a lot more players will get to participate, and there should be more parity. Who knows maybe a Team Europe will be a positive for the smaller hockey nations like latvia, Kazakhstan, hungary, etc. A U23 team is a cool idea too, especially with the dominance of the young guns these days.

I reiterate though, this is assuming we treat it as its own animal and not try to line it up with the olympics & other IIHF events.

I do, however, agree if they try to force this down our throats as some consolation prize for pulling out of the Olympics then i will be just as furious.

If we look at this as an opportunity to grow the game in north america (ie the US) then it might be good for the league.

 

[KarIgo87]

NA hockey fans sound just like spoiled little brats. "Gimmick NA/Europe teams". NA youngstars team looks pretty intriguing. They will be my second team to support after Russia.

 

[westc2]

This, as 'gimmicky' as it may seem, gives us an opportunity to see player combinations we wouldn't normally ever see. And at a highly competitive level too (hopefully). Which is what we all want, no? Obviously it wont have the same nationalistic pride on the line as the Olympics but there is still potential elsewhere.

.

The players aren't going to be highly competitive...they are going to be playing like they would in an All-Star game. Just like a friendly pick-up game.

They're trying to replace a "best-on-best" tournament that includes every nation in the world (Olympics) with a very limited gimmicky one with mixed teams and no motivation for the players to win. This tournament needs to include at least 16 teams and it needs to be unrelated to the NHL so players from other leagues can join, otherwise it's trash.

 

[sdf]

For me this problem not exist, i just want to see best on best tournement

 

[Lacaar]

Feel sorry for the European players.

You have to play a meaningless tournament where your not representing your country whatsoever.

No one anywhere in Hockey World cares and they have to still play.

Would love to see players refuse to play, but I suppose it's in their contracts or what not.

I wonder if they realize, there's not one soul on this planet buying a plane ticket to come to this cash grab.

Wait until World Championships 2017, Paris and Cologne, you'll see a real event where the WHOLE Hockey WORLD will gather.

Yes, it may be astonishing to believe, but Hockey exists outside 30 cities in North America.

It's funny how you have it the exact opposite.

More people will watch Team Europe vs Canada than any single game in the WHC.

Book it.

 

[patnyrnyg]

It's funny how you have it the exact opposite.

More people will watch Team Europe vs Canada than any single game in the WHC.

Book it.

Yes, but will they have a fan area where fans can get together and share culture?

 

[patnyrnyg]

Maybe the problem is that we're trying to directly compare it to the Olympics/IIHF tournaments? (not saying that isnt what its being marketed as, but maybe that's the problem)

This, as 'gimmicky' as it may seem, gives us an opportunity to see player combinations we wouldn't normally ever see. And at a highly competitive level too (hopefully). Which is what we all want, no? Obviously it wont have the same nationalistic pride on the line as the Olympics but there is still potential elsewhere.

I mean at the very least a lot more players will get to participate, and there should be more parity. Who knows maybe a Team Europe will be a positive for the smaller hockey nations like latvia, Kazakhstan, hungary, etc. A U23 team is a cool idea too, especially with the dominance of the young guns these days.

I reiterate though, this is assuming we treat it as its own animal and not try to line it up with the olympics & other IIHF events.

I do, however, agree if they try to force this down our throats as some consolation prize for pulling out of the Olympics then i will be just as furious.

If we look at this as an opportunity to grow the game in north america (ie the US) then it might be good for the league.

The players aren't going to be highly competitive...they are going to be playing like they would in an All-Star game. Just like a friendly pick-up game.

They're trying to replace a "best-on-best" tournament that includes every nation in the world (Olympics) with a very limited gimmicky one with mixed teams and no motivation for the players to win. This tournament needs to include at least 16 teams and it needs to be unrelated to the NHL so players from other leagues can join, otherwise it's trash.

So, you completely missed his point. But thanks for chiming in.

 

[patnyrnyg]

I love these remarks that the players aren't going to take it serious and it will be just like an all-star game. As if any of you have the first clue what the players think about it.

 

[JackSlater]

Maybe the problem is that we're trying to directly compare it to the Olympics/IIHF tournaments? (not saying that isnt what its being marketed as, but maybe that's the problem)

This, as 'gimmicky' as it may seem, gives us an opportunity to see player combinations we wouldn't normally ever see. And at a highly competitive level too (hopefully). Which is what we all want, no? Obviously it wont have the same nationalistic pride on the line as the Olympics but there is still potential elsewhere.

I mean at the very least a lot more players will get to participate, and there should be more parity. Who knows maybe a Team Europe will be a positive for the smaller hockey nations like latvia, Kazakhstan, hungary, etc. A U23 team is a cool idea too, especially with the dominance of the young guns these days.

I reiterate though, this is assuming we treat it as its own animal and not try to line it up with the olympics & other IIHF events.

I do, however, agree if they try to force this down our throats as some consolation prize for pulling out of the Olympics then i will be just as furious.

If we look at this as an opportunity to grow the game in north america (ie the US) then it might be good for the league.

I'm comparing it to past Canada/World Cups. Those were great events and featured some of the greatest hockey ever played. Putting the gimmicks on only serves to lessen what would otherwise be a great tournament.

For me this problem not exist, i just want to see best on best tournement

To bad this isn't. Canada and USA cannot choose all of their best, and the gimmick teams are the best.... what?

 

[Jon Riley]

It will never exist a real best on best meaningful international tournament without a full cooperation between both the iihf and the NHL. It could be the whc, the world cup or the Olympics, I do not care, but for sure everybody has to put some effort in it.
If you want such a competition there are a few things that are mandatory:
1) all the national teams must have access to whatever player they choose to call, regardless of age or league they play in.
2) it has to involve some kind of qualification round or system. If a "big" team for different reason fail to qualify and instead we get to see a lower tied team instead, that would be just as good.
3) less important, maybe, but it should "move around" and if one year it happens to be in a place with lower attendance, whatever, the time after would be better.
This is the way a proper tournament would be made, it is like that in virtually every important sport out there and guess what? It works, people have fun, players care, the level is high, the sport grows.
Now, I do not know what and how this world cup will be when it comes to the hockey level, but for sure it won't ever have the status of international tournament.

 

[Jablkon]

Maybe the problem is that we're trying to directly compare it to the Olympics/IIHF tournaments? (not saying that isnt what its being marketed as, but maybe that's the problem)

This, as 'gimmicky' as it may seem, gives us an opportunity to see player combinations we wouldn't normally ever see. And at a highly competitive level too (hopefully). Which is what we all want, no? Obviously it wont have the same nationalistic pride on the line as the Olympics but there is still potential elsewhere.

I mean at the very least a lot more players will get to participate, and there should be more parity. Who knows maybe a Team Europe will be a positive for the smaller hockey nations like latvia, Kazakhstan, hungary, etc. A U23 team is a cool idea too, especially with the dominance of the young guns these days.

I reiterate though, this is assuming we treat it as its own animal and not try to line it up with the olympics & other IIHF events.

I do, however, agree if they try to force this down our throats as some consolation prize for pulling out of the Olympics then i will be just as furious.

If we look at this as an opportunity to grow the game in north america (ie the US) then it might be good for the league.

From european perspective I am not even sure here. Kopitar was mentioned here quite often. Frankly how many people in Europe watched Kopitar playing hockey? I dont follow LA so I watched him probably in several games in WHC, same with Zucarello. I lived without them before and I dont have any special interest to watch them on int. stage, but as you said why not. Still I would say demand is on NA side, if there is any.

U 23 is completely mysterious for me for basically two reasons. First are players having to play against their countries which is bizzare. Second is a fan base. Who will support them against their own contries? Its schizophrenic. NA fans might support them against european teams and than some european fans might support them against NA teams just to degrade the tourney. If it was peewee t. with Canada green, white etc. I would be ok, but this tourney pretends to be serious int. event and it makes me completely confused. I just dont understand to it....

 

[helgo]

Yeah even as a big hockey fan, I'm definitely not going to watch it. The main thing for me about World Championships or Olympics is, that it is not only about the game itself, it is about players playing for their countries and competing with other countries, it is about fans from all-around the world getting together and sharing their passion while cheering for their countrymen. World Cup on the other hand is a tournament which always takes place in the same country and this new format even takes away the whole "competition between countries" thing because guess what Slovakia, Switzerland etc., you guys aren't good enough for us so, just be glad that we even bothered to invite you at all as a team leftovers, which absolutely doesn't have any kind of tradition or historical ties at all and is simply there to fill in the blank, that under 23 or something team being just a cherry on top of the whole thing. It's just painfully obvious that this tourney is meant for NA fans only and even if the level of competition could be quite good, it lacks the integral part of what makes international tournament exciting and meaningful to me ...

 

[Xokkeu]

I love these remarks that the players aren't going to take it serious and it will be just like an all-star game. As if any of you have the first clue what the players think about it.

Just look at their quotes about it.

 

[Xokkeu]

It's funny how you have it the exact opposite.

More people will watch Team Europe vs Canada than any single game in the WHC.

Book it.

Not outside of Canada.

 

[TeamRenzo]

I'm comparing it to past Canada/World Cups. Those were great events and featured some of the greatest hockey ever played. Putting the gimmicks on only serves to lessen what would otherwise be a great tournament.



To bad this isn't. Canada and USA cannot choose all of their best, and the gimmick teams are the best.... what?

Canada will ice a great team, sit back, relax and enjoy the hockey. I dont see how people get so worked up over the quality of something that has yet to happen.

 

[JackSlater]

Canada will ice a great team, sit back, relax and enjoy the hockey. I dont see how people get so worked up over the quality of something that has yet to happen.

I don't care if Canada ices the strongest team in hockey, I care that all teams are on even footing. They are not in this tournament.

 

[Canuckistani]

I don't care if Canada ices the strongest team in hockey, I care that all teams are on even footing. They are not in this tournament.

Imagine if the World Cup allowed Canada and USA to field complete squads but the Russians and Swedes were faced with an age limit.

The NHL has actually imposed that handicap on their own fans' teams!