From the looks of it, NA would beat USA. USA might be able to beat them up, but I dont think they would beat them on the scoreboard
World Cup 2016 Thread
- Thread starter Samkow
- Start date
Well you have to give Team USA credit for having a plan.
They found a coach who could execute it and selected players who they thought could play in that system.
Only problem was it was a bad plan. Gritty teams rarely even make it thru a NHL season much less the bigger ice of international competition.
They found a coach who could execute it and selected players who they thought could play in that system.
Only problem was it was a bad plan. Gritty teams rarely even make it thru a NHL season much less the bigger ice of international competition.
Dr. Fire
What, me worry?
Team USA was a disaster from the get-go. I am not sure how much input Torts had on the make-up of the team, and I don't know how much coaching he could have done to make the team better, but he still doesn't look good today. I don't know if anyone could have done much better with this group, but I hope this doesn't show there are bad things in store for the CBJ.
I am more in the camp that this USA debacle falls at the feet of GM Dean Lombardi. He just did a hell of a poor job building this team. Next go-round it should be time for new blood at the top, and time to ditch some of the old dogs for new and improved young dogs.
I am more in the camp that this USA debacle falls at the feet of GM Dean Lombardi. He just did a hell of a poor job building this team. Next go-round it should be time for new blood at the top, and time to ditch some of the old dogs for new and improved young dogs.
I will never understand this 'American disease' which has contaminated Finnish ice hockey federation too. You wouldn't even make soup with too many cooks around one pot yet with the task of building an ice hockey team you have some ice hockey who's who extended edition listed for various roles.
You hire one 'GM' to select the head coach, then provide that head coach with enough freedom of choice in both assistants and players. Scouting side will aid. Now you have at max two geezers making decisions which already narrows down the chance of 'speaking the same language' when it comes to selecting a team for the purpose of winning games.
I actually applaud the US management for trying something different. The only reason to participate is to win and if you want to win, you have to go through Canada. US doesn't have enough quality players to win Canada with skill so they tried something different. It didn't work. Bygones.
US is in the middle of a transition period. Current players aren't good enough but the future looks stellar. There's more american players in Team NA than canadian players.
When it comes to systems and structure, there's not a lot a coach can do in these short tournaments. It's just very basic stuff and some details.
Still it is a fine line to walk if even one or two decisions go against the head coach's line. Why have three strong-willed GM's enlisted for one job. Or four strong-willed NHL head coaches as assistant coaches to another strong-willed NHL head coach... so I wouldn't even blame Lombardi for something which isn't a good setup to begin with. It is like if the Blue Jackets had McLean, Howson and Kekäläinen working as GM-trio.
Finland had four big name absolute beginners in Lehtinen, Selänne, Koivu and Timonen as GM, scouts and advisors. All credit to Teppo Numminen also but I doubt he is the greatest possible assistant with his limited coaching experience. For head coach Marjamäki it took twenty years of coaching to reach his position. Teppo Winnipeg prepared with absence of two years from coaching for this tournament... Apparently this is some straight-forward thinking that media and image have surpassed needs of the team which shouldn't be built with the same mindset as a travelling circus.
https://www.nhl.com/news/world-cup-management-teams/c-783503
I would differ to say that the whole approach is vital. The Americas has the player material already there for high-end, compact counter-attacking (which takes incredible amount of individual skill to be successful) or even puck control. Kane and Gaudreau for example are absolute elite in either approach. I would say the whole culture is lacking in terms of understanding, hence recent the crucifixion of John. Innocent throw the first stone, they say.
Same goes for Finland: if you expose your shortcomings, without victories some parts of the team tend to appear weak. Too often is national team ice hockey viewed only as past and future exercise like the current day would cease to exist.
Dr. Fire
What, me worry?
Maybe this is true, and maybe not. I still think that the majority of the blame lies at the feet of the GM. It would be my guess that he decided the direction he wanted the team to go, then asked Torts for his input. He can take Torts' input under advisement, but as GM, he is the ultimate decision maker.
Not saying Torts is totally blameless, as he was a part of this debacle, but I am saying that I don't think he was the main reason they failed.
"‘I’ve had experience in major league sport and the principles are transferable. I will come in at the level of a well-informed fan and, as far as the team is concerned, I will stay in my place. No one has more information about what’s happening with the team than the head coach. I know that. I’ve been a head coach. I’ve been confronted with political situations, people without all the information trying to influence decisions."
Ralph Krueger, chairman of Southampton F.C.
Ralph Krueger, chairman of Southampton F.C.
Torts shouldn't be taking the flack for how poorly this team was assembled. The existence of Team NA aside, too many good players were left off this roster. I mean, Justin Abdelkader? Brandon Dubinsky? Cmon. What did they really expect to happen.
Kane-Pavelski-Kessel
Pacioretty-TJohnson-Wheeler
JVR-Kesler-Oshie
Parise-Backes-Stepan
Carlson-McD
Buff-Suter
Faulk-Shattenkirk
These changes to the lineup would've worked wonders compared to the garbage Lombardi assembled.
Edit: also imagine if team NA didn't exist. Gaudreau, Saad, Eichel and maybe Matthews make this team.
Kane-Pavelski-Kessel
Pacioretty-TJohnson-Wheeler
JVR-Kesler-Oshie
Parise-Backes-Stepan
Carlson-McD
Buff-Suter
Faulk-Shattenkirk
These changes to the lineup would've worked wonders compared to the garbage Lombardi assembled.
Edit: also imagine if team NA didn't exist. Gaudreau, Saad, Eichel and maybe Matthews make this team.
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Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
Torts absolutely should be included in the raking over the coals...Lombardi did put the team together, but it's in the mold of the coach...Like Sam said, there's almost no way Torts wasn't involved in the process...
Well, I am glad that is over. While I wanted the USA to win, I am happy to have Torts from the beginning of training camp. And that isn't to say that with a different roster the result would be any different.
I have some mixed emotions, in that I feel that this World Cup of Hockey is a made for TV event, in that ESPN was behind it. So I would question how the the rosters were formulated. The public statements may say otherwise, but ESPN steers the ship. Look at the money they raked in with advertising. Did ESPN have a say in the makeup of the North American Squad? Did they influence the rosters in any way to make the games more competitive? Was ESPN in any way influential in having the North America team a team of young prospects? I question how much ESPN was involved behind the scenes.
I have some mixed emotions, in that I feel that this World Cup of Hockey is a made for TV event, in that ESPN was behind it. So I would question how the the rosters were formulated. The public statements may say otherwise, but ESPN steers the ship. Look at the money they raked in with advertising. Did ESPN have a say in the makeup of the North American Squad? Did they influence the rosters in any way to make the games more competitive? Was ESPN in any way influential in having the North America team a team of young prospects? I question how much ESPN was involved behind the scenes.
Of course he was involved but how many men do you need to gather a team of twenty ice hockey players? 5? 10? 20? Whose ideas should reign in that team? It is after all a team only for a very short period of time. How many visions do you need for one team?
Why isn't Joel Quenneville coaching Team USA? I think the problem is rooted in that question. The world, the world is behind us.
Why isn't Joel Quenneville coaching Team USA? I think the problem is rooted in that question. The world, the world is behind us.
JKinCLE
killing time @ work
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I'm going to go with "because Quenneville is Canadian, and is on the Team Canada coaching staff".
Dean has always been a giant fan of JMFJ. And also to be fair to all of team USA about JMFJ he has ALWAYS played awesome for the red white and blue.
Cowumbus
Registered User
Saad would not have made team USA actually, he doesn't have enough skill. He's my favorite player too.
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
I'm going to go with "because Quenneville is Canadian, and is on the Team Canada coaching staff".
wasn't going to state it...
I'd go with Saad over JVR patches or Backes. He's a 2 way scoring winger with 2 Stanley Cup wins. He was great with Toews so I truly believe he would have done great with Kesler.
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
Saad was eligible for the U23...just like Matthews...this really isn't that hard...
He's a better skater than Dubinsky, Backes, Palmieri, and maybe a few others. And more skilled than those three guys, too.
