TSN: WJC ~ Team Canada @ the World Junior Championships

[dumbdick]

You do understand it's not normal for teams that have yet to make the playoffs after a long rebuild to have zero top prospects added to their system in the last 3 years, in which they finished 7th worst, 10th worst and 12th worst.

In fact it's absolutely unheard of, but you should know that.

Is it "absolutely unheard of" for a rebuilding team to trade some picks in the final years of a rebuild?

Are you sure about that part?

 

[Hale The Villain]

Is it "absolutely unheard of" for a rebuilding team to trade some picks in the final years of a rebuild?

Are you sure about that part?

"Some picks" is certainly one way to describe two high 1sts (7th and 12th) and three 2nds.

And what stings even more - on top of losing those picks they also wasted a top 10 pick and two 2nds on awful reaches in Boucher, Roger and Nordberg in 21/22.

It is likely that we won't get a single impact player (top 6 F/top 4 D) from the last 3 drafts. That would be disastrous for a contender, but it's even worse for a team that missed the playoffs each of those 3 years.

 

[Ouroboros]

Surely a large part of the angst is because it's now totally evident that the team was not in the final years of a rebuild. They rushed it and it hasn't really paid off.

If the team was actually good right now there wouldn't be so much focus on the non-existent prospects.

 

[dumbdick]

It is likely that we won't get a single impact player (top 6 F/top 4 D) from the last 3 drafts.

Unless you count Chychrun of course. Or kubalik. Or a year of Cat. Or whatever that first we traded cat for turns into.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Surely a large part of the angst is because it's now totally evident that the team was not in the final years of a rebuild. They rushed it and it hasn't really paid off.

If the team was actually good right now there wouldn't be so much focus on the non-existent prospects.

When Tim Murray was the Sabres' GM they did something similar back in 2015 after they drafted Eichel.

They decided their young core of Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen, Kane and Bogosian was sufficient to be a contender one day and decided it would be better to try to get the team to the playoffs ASAP rather than get there organically, so they traded a bunch of prospects and futures for O'Reilly and Lehner.

As it turns out their young core wasn't as good as they thought and depleting their prospect pipeline so early necessitated a second rebuild after they failed to develop into a playoff team.

Probably isn't a coincidence the two GMs that rushed their rebuilds were both proteges of Bryan Murray, who couldn't stand to see the team lose and impatiently and consistently made moves to improve the roster even after the team had little to no playoff hopes, preventing the team from bottoming out and getting elite prospects.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Unless you count Chychrun of course. Or kubalik. Or a year of Cat. Or whatever that first we traded cat for turns into.

No way in the world can you describe Kubalik as an “impact player”.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Unless you count Chychrun of course. Or kubalik. Or a year of Cat. Or whatever that first we traded cat for turns into.

bad timing .. Team was not ready for those moves

 

[Xspyrit]

I shall call him Dorion Jonovan from now on. He deserves it after this game.

lol don't, we might end up booing him in his first NHL shift

"Some picks" is certainly one way to describe two high 1sts (7th and 12th) and three 2nds.

And what stings even more - on top of losing those picks they also wasted a top 10 pick and two 2nds on awful reaches in Boucher, Roger and Nordberg in 21/22.

It is likely that we won't get a single impact player (top 6 F/top 4 D) from the last 3 drafts. That would be disastrous for a contender, but it's even worse for a team that missed the playoffs each of those 3 years.

You could also mention spending picks to fix past mistakes. Ex : 2nd + 3rd + 4th + 7th to get rid of Zaitsev/Murray. And now add a future 1st for the Dadonov fiasco

We got laughed at for talking about "asset management" but damn the Dorion bill is expensive. Staois and co have to be FLAWLESS for a while for us to properly recover from it.

Unless you count Chychrun of course. Or kubalik. Or a year of Cat. Or whatever that first we traded cat for turns into.

Chychrun was expensive but a good catch. Kubalik is the weak link in the Top-9. DeBrincat is a pure sunk cost, like Duchene was. We downgraded a 7th OA pick in 2022 to a late 1st in 2024, awful.

I see 4 possible players in the last 3 drafts : Ostapchuk, Pettersson, Halliday and Donovan

If they all hit it's not that bad but for a team still in a rebuild? That's underwhelming to say the least

Instead of continuing to add assets like rebuilding teams do, Dorion did the opposite and his teams FAILED to deliver big time, basically eliminated in November every season.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Taking a shot at DBC and failing sucked, but we have a late 1st and Kubalik so we have options to limit the damage which is not ideal but nice, especially in the hands of the new management staff.

Chychrun was a great pick up for the other first, fits into the age of our team, is a good bet to stay here, and is also a good bet to be a better player than our pick would ever end up being. Absolutely no regrets on that whatsoever so no need to lament that pick.

Yeah we don’t have a ton of prospects, but things aren’t all doom and gloom going forward because we picked arguably the best players in two drafts with a third player who could have easily been the second pick in Stu’s draft. Who knows where Gregg would slot either.

We could have had a nice pick at 7th, that sucks, but then again we still have a chance at another Grieg type later pick with our pick in return at this draft, so we’ll see how that shakes out.

Boucher still has a chance to be a player as well, and while he maybe wasn’t the ideal pick for many, he wasn’t the epic reach some claim, and there was a pretty clear top 9 and we missed out on all of them. 10oa was the best of the rest, and we tried to swing for the fences.

The point is, get your noses out of the cupboard and start watching the games on the ice. We aren’t needing or relying on more star kids arriving right now, the team is good, has a ton of potential, and we still have two firsts to add more potential to Jarventie, Ostapchuk, Soogarde, and Boucher in Belleville.

Coaching is key here. I suspect we’ll start seeing the guys play a stronger game, and the worries over needing a handfull of bluechippers in the wings will subside.

 

[Back in Black]

Spengler Cup today @ 2pm, Canada vs Davos.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Xspyrit]

Taking a shot at DBC and failing sucked, but we have a late 1st and Kubalik so we have options to limit the damage which is not ideal but nice

Nice?

Kubalik is worth a 4th AT MOST if we have the balls to trade him. Sebrango has no value

The late 1st and the two 4ths are barely covering the early 2nd + 3rd. We basically lost a 7th OA pick in that fiasco (but ok I'll leave Kubalik in the equation below)


Down the road, if you specifically look at the biggest Dorion fiascos, all we have to show for :

Mika Zibanejad + 33rd OA in 2018 + 63rd OA in 2018 (we added that pick when we traded Brassard)
4th OA pick in 2019 + 28th OA in 2017 + 63rd OA in 2019 (Turris is retired so not counting him in the price to get Duchene)
Mark Stone (all this situation was a fiasco, had to get a core piece back and we got a nice support player, proudest day though)
37th OA in 2021 (to acquire Derek Stepan, hard to not count it as a fiasco even if not as big as the others)
7th OA pick in 2022 (lost in the DeBrincat fiasco)
44th OA in 2023 + 4th round pick in 2026 (to get rid of Zaitsev)
52th OA in 2020 + 76th OA in 2023 + 7th round pick in 2024 (to acquire then get rid of Murray)
1st round pick in 2026? (Dadonov fiasco)

is :

Erik Brannstrom
Jacob Bernard-Docker
Travis Hamonic (with the 3rd round pick we got back from Vegas for Dadonov!)
Dominik Kubalik (UFA after the season, 9 pts in 30 GP, worst differential on the team -13, 2nd worst regular is -3)
Egor Sokolov (fading prospect)


One could say "yeah but it happened years ago so the players given away have no impact anymore"

Zibanejad 35 pts in 33 GP
Duchene 29 pts in 32 GP
Stone 36 pts in 36 GP
DeBrincat 34 pts in 35 GP


The bill for years of Dorion incompetence is GIGANTIC. You can choose to deny it all you want but I think most people are aware of this.

Every time the questions "why do our prospect pool suck all of sudden?" or "why do we lack depth despite being at max cap?" come, the answer is just above.

 

[Butchy Dakkar]

He will fit right in.

That’s actually what i thought when i watched that shift… a conditioned Sens fan

 

[Back in Black]

Nice?

Kubalik is worth a 4th AT MOST if we have the balls to trade him. Sebrango has no value

The late 1st and the two 4ths are barely covering the early 2nd + 3rd. We basically lost a 7th OA pick in that fiasco (but ok I'll leave Kubalik in the equation below)


Down the road, if you specifically look at the biggest Dorion fiascos, all we have to show for :

Mika Zibanejad + 33rd OA in 2018 + 63rd OA in 2018 (we added that pick when we traded Brassard)
4th OA pick in 2019 + 28th OA in 2017 + 63rd OA in 2019 (Turris is retired so not counting him in the price to get Duchene)
Mark Stone (all this situation was a fiasco, had to get a core piece back and we got a nice support player, proudest day though)
37th OA in 2021 (to acquire Derek Stepan, hard to not count it as a fiasco even if not as big as the others)
7th OA pick in 2022 (lost in the DeBrincat fiasco)
44th OA in 2023 + 4th round pick in 2026 (to get rid of Zaitsev)
52th OA in 2020 + 76th OA in 2023 + 7th round pick in 2024 (to acquire then get rid of Murray)
1st round pick in 2026? (Dadonov fiasco)

is :

Erik Brannstrom
Jacob Bernard-Docker
Travis Hamonic (with the 3rd round pick we got back from Vegas for Dadonov!)
Dominik Kubalik (UFA after the season, 9 pts in 30 GP, worst differential on the team -13, 2nd worst regular is -3)
Egor Sokolov (fading prospect)


One could say "yeah but it happened years ago so the players given away have no impact anymore"

Zibanejad 35 pts in 33 GP
Duchene 29 pts in 32 GP
Stone 36 pts in 36 GP
DeBrincat 34 pts in 35 GP


The bill for years of Dorion incompetence is GIGANTIC. You can choose to deny it all you want but I think most people are aware of this.

Every time the questions "why do our prospect pool suck all of sudden?" or "why do we lack depth despite being at max cap?" come, the answer is just above.

Ya, between Dorion and (RIP) his protege Brian Murray, it's been a revolving door of players (a rebuild as they both called it). I've been saying it for years, now a few decades and have been blasted for it.


Anyways, 22 Hours to go for Team Canada!

 

[Back in Black]

Spengler Cup today @ 2pm, Canada vs Davos.

Well, Canada blew a 3-0 lead, only to lose 4-3

19 hours to gO for the JR's

 

[Ice-Tray]

Nice?

Kubalik is worth a 4th AT MOST if we have the balls to trade him. Sebrango has no value

The late 1st and the two 4ths are barely covering the early 2nd + 3rd. We basically lost a 7th OA pick in that fiasco (but ok I'll leave Kubalik in the equation below)


Down the road, if you specifically look at the biggest Dorion fiascos, all we have to show for :

Mika Zibanejad + 33rd OA in 2018 + 63rd OA in 2018 (we added that pick when we traded Brassard)
4th OA pick in 2019 + 28th OA in 2017 + 63rd OA in 2019 (Turris is retired so not counting him in the price to get Duchene)
Mark Stone (all this situation was a fiasco, had to get a core piece back and we got a nice support player, proudest day though)
37th OA in 2021 (to acquire Derek Stepan, hard to not count it as a fiasco even if not as big as the others)
7th OA pick in 2022 (lost in the DeBrincat fiasco)
44th OA in 2023 + 4th round pick in 2026 (to get rid of Zaitsev)
52th OA in 2020 + 76th OA in 2023 + 7th round pick in 2024 (to acquire then get rid of Murray)
1st round pick in 2026? (Dadonov fiasco)

is :

Erik Brannstrom
Jacob Bernard-Docker
Travis Hamonic (with the 3rd round pick we got back from Vegas for Dadonov!)
Dominik Kubalik (UFA after the season, 9 pts in 30 GP, worst differential on the team -13, 2nd worst regular is -3)
Egor Sokolov (fading prospect)


One could say "yeah but it happened years ago so the players given away have no impact anymore"

Zibanejad 35 pts in 33 GP
Duchene 29 pts in 32 GP
Stone 36 pts in 36 GP
DeBrincat 34 pts in 35 GP


The bill for years of Dorion incompetence is GIGANTIC. You can choose to deny it all you want but I think most people are aware of this.

Every time the questions "why do our prospect pool suck all of sudden?" or "why do we lack depth despite being at max cap?" come, the answer is just above.

I already know how you feel about Dorion, but I honestly I really don’t care about him so your time is wasted laying out his failures to me. That chapter is over and done to me and I’m happily looking forward to the present and future. I just don’t consume hockey that way so it probably explains why I’m not overly upset with having an extra 1st from the trade.

Yes, it’s nice to have another first round pick in my opinion. It’s not ideal, but I’m glad that we didn’t lose DBC for nothing, or made a full on hockey trade that failed. The pick is nice to me.

I’m already looking forward to the new management team making the pick, and like that DBC is part of the hate brewing with Detroit. Obviously I would have preferred a magic do-over, but if I had one of those I wouldn’t use it on anything hockey related anyways!

 

[Back in Black]

#GAMEDAY

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Is it just me, or is whoever is in charge of the arena music using the theme song to The Exorcist in a lot of these junior games?

 

[DrEasy]

Is it just me, or is whoever is in charge of the arena music using the theme song to The Exorcist in a lot of these junior games?

Yeah, I think they use it for penalties, at least that's the correlation I made.

The DJ really likes 80s music too. "Live is Life", even "The Riddle"!

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Good game going on between CZE and USA ... 3-2 CZE right now . 2nd lead of the game.

Canada Sweden is an important game for where they get seeded. Sweden has a fair bit of fire power but I like Canada's chances

CZE vs USA headed to a shootout

1-1 after 5 rounds .

Howard wins it for USA in the 7th round

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Donovan elite?

Oskar needs to show a bit more.

Ohgren is awesome

The Swedes are f***ing heeeaavvy

 

[thinkwild]

I cant decide between Donovan and Hamara who has the better chance of making the NHL. So far im leaning to neither, but lots of time for development still.

USA and Swe both look beatable for Canada

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I cant decide between Donovan and Hamara who has the better chance of making the NHL. So far im leaning to neither, but lots of time for development still.

USA and Swe both look beatable for Canada

Hamara looks better in this tournament

 

[thinkwild]

Dbl minor even if he had had his mouthguard hanging out of his mouth