WJC - Russia - 2015

[Caser]

Minor updates from Bragin:

Goldobin will be invited to the final camp in December.
Penkovsky will not be going to SSS since he is playing in KHL; Yudin and Paigin might be also not going to SSS for the same reason.
Those guys from CHL, whom Bragin is not sure about, will play two games in SSS; for proven guys one game is enough.

 

[malkinfan]

IMO Penkovsky, Golyshev, Mamin are junk, deadweight garbage. None of them should be on the team before any of the serviceable CHL guys. Buchnevich and Sharov are the only worthy KHL forwards to make this team. Id hate to admit it but this year the team should be made up of mostly CHL guys. Obvious guys like Rafikov, Sharov, Buch, Gavrikov aside. Just too much of the top level talent for 95, 96 is over seas.

 

[Caser]

IMO Penkovsky, Golyshev, Mamin are junk, deadweight garbage. None of them should be on the team before any of the serviceable CHL guys. Buchnevich and Sharov are the only worthy KHL forwards to make this team. Id hate to admit it but this year the team should be made up of mostly CHL guys. Obvious guys like Rafikov, Sharov, Buch, Gavrikov aside. Just too much of the top level talent for 95, 96 is over seas.

Will disagree on Mamin, him and Sharov were probably the best players at August games. I wouldn't trade their chemistry for any of CHL guys, because, imo, if you add a big guy to their line, you get basically a legitimate third line.

I'm not a big fan of Penkovsky, but who are other candidates for a 4-th line center spot? I can think of Kraskovsky, Fazleev, Okulov and Nikolishin, and at this moment I really can't say that they're better, but maybe SSS will show.

Btw, Rafikov doesn't seem that obvious to me, I think he should be able to make it though, just it sounds kind of strange to me that he is named as a top candidate (although I should note that I didn't follow him in VHL).

Upd: Lazarev and Svechnikov are invited to SSS.

 

[Atas2000]

IMO Penkovsky, Golyshev, Mamin are junk, deadweight garbage. None of them should be on the team before any of the serviceable CHL guys. Buchnevich and Sharov are the only worthy KHL forwards to make this team. Id hate to admit it but this year the team should be made up of mostly CHL guys. Obvious guys like Rafikov, Sharov, Buch, Gavrikov aside. Just too much of the top level talent for 95, 96 is over seas.

You may like a player a little bit more or a little bit less, but that is just complete nonsense.

 

[cska78]

You may like a player a little bit more or a little bit less, but that is just complete nonsense.

All are capable players, wth?

 

[kp61c]

All are capable players, wth?

yeah, like last year. khlopotov, skladichenko, busarov, gimatov, osnovin. all capable in their own way.

 

[Caser]

yeah, like last year. khlopotov, skladichenko, busarov, gimatov, osnovin. all capable in their own way.

To be fair, only Khlopotov and Gimatov are valid examples, since Osnovin was rather good at WJC, while Skladnichenko and Busarov were there only because of the horrible center depth last year.

 

[cska78]

I hated skladnichenko last year. Osnovin will be a solid khl player is already.
Penkovskiy really impressed me in the game vs czech, but was horrid during the games vs Canada. Golyshev, on the other hand improved with every game, I like his chances.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

All are capable players, wth?

No one of them is Malkin or Ovechkin, but garbage? Ok I'm sure it was an hyperbole, but it looks a very strong phrase to me.

 

[malkinfan]

You may like a player a little bit more or a little bit less, but that is just complete nonsense.

IMO not at all, here is what I have taken away from my viewings:

1) Mamin - very week on his skates, multiple times (>3) he fell on his own/minimal contact from opponents while trying to perform a move - sign of lack of skill, trying to do what he is not capable of. Perimeter player at both KHL level and even in the U20 exhibitions (to my surprise) because he doesn't own enough skill to travel through traffic with the puck. Never went anywhere near the middle of the ice, overall produced minimal if any offense. Defensive liability - in the KHL multiple times blatantly letting his man drive to the net and scoring while sitting there dumbfounded after the play. Turnover machine on the small ice, cant react nearly quick enough to make proper decisions to make an impact on the smaller ice.
Conclusion - a player like this may have some speed and basic level skills at the junior level to somehow get pushed to the next level, but there is not much if any value added from this player against a higher level competition.

Golyshev - Looked okay in the KHL on the big ice, can be used in PK role ok. Small but has speed. On the small ice, different story, clearly scared, avoided going anywhere near the net, couldn't finish on nice set ups from the other players, didn't ever know what to do with the puck, easily pushed off the puck by opposing defenseman. Abysmal, completely useless on the small ice.

Penkovsky - just didn't stand out enough, perimeter player, minimal offense from a guy who is supposed to be an offensive guy.

Too many good options to include either of these guys. Still in shock Rudenkov didn't make the team, scores everywhere he's been and was one of the best forwards at the SuperSeries last year, great with the puck, drives to the net hard and goes through traffic. If he doesn't make it this year in place of one of the 3 guys I listed above, he must be dammed.

 

[Atas2000]

IMO not at all, here is what I have taken away from my viewings:

1) Mamin - very week on his skates, multiple times (>3) he fell on his own/minimal contact from opponents while trying to perform a move - sign of lack of skill, trying to do what he is not capable of. Perimeter player at both KHL level and even in the U20 exhibitions (to my surprise) because he doesn't own enough skill to travel through traffic with the puck. Never went anywhere near the middle of the ice, overall produced minimal if any offense. Defensive liability - in the KHL multiple times blatantly letting his man drive to the net and scoring while sitting there dumbfounded after the play. Turnover machine on the small ice, cant react nearly quick enough to make proper decisions to make an impact on the smaller ice.
Conclusion - a player like this may have some speed and basic level skills at the junior level to somehow get pushed to the next level, but there is not much if any value added from this player against a higher level competition.

Golyshev - Looked okay in the KHL on the big ice, can be used in PK role ok. Small but has speed. On the small ice, different story, clearly scared, avoided going anywhere near the net, couldn't finish on nice set ups from the other players, didn't ever know what to do with the puck, easily pushed off the puck by opposing defenseman. Abysmal, completely useless on the small ice.

Penkovsky - just didn't stand out enough, perimeter player, minimal offense from a guy who is supposed to be an offensive guy.

Too many good options to include either of these guys. Still in shock Rudenkov didn't make the team, scores everywhere he's been and was one of the best forwards at the SuperSeries last year, great with the puck, drives to the net hard and goes through traffic. If he doesn't make it this year in place of one of the 3 guys I listed above, he must be dammed.

your analysis lacks one major thing, the understanding we're talking about U20 players. if you'd take under the microscope the play of Nichushkin, or Kuznetsov, or Tarasenko... at this age you'd find tons of mistakes and weaknesses to thump on. nobody excpects them to be complete KHL players by now.

while you write about options, I don't see names out side Rudenkov, who is not a light out candidate in my book.

I do believe Bragin has an idea about who the players in his available pool are and he is also juggling the callups a lot. If the players you are so obviously not fond of fail at the upcoming tournaments they will lose their spots on the WJC squad. but something tell me they aren't that bad at all.

 

[malkinfan]

while you write about options, I don't see names out side Rudenkov, who is not a light out candidate in my book.

I do believe Bragin has an idea about who the players in his available pool are and he is also juggling the callups a lot. If the players you are so obviously not fond of fail at the upcoming tournaments they will lose their spots on the WJC squad. but something tell me they aren't that bad at all.

I only point out Rudenkov because he was unexpectedly omitted from last years roster. I will clear my point further, this year Russia may be as deep as it has been in several years at forward. There is no room for marginal players because there are too many good players available. The game is on the small rink this year, therefore guys who are preforming well in the CHL should be taken over marginal KHL guys playing less than 10 min a game. Makes no sense to do otherwise. There are at least 12 worthy forwards in the CHL to make this team. Therefore only the best guys from Russia (Buch, Kamenv, Sharov, Rudenkov maybe one other should have spots).

Let me emphasize, there are way too many good players in the CHL, not to mention Goldobin who should be a lock, to be taking flyers on random guys. I would have expected the selection process to have further reduced the candidates at this point and focus in on the few spots that are actually available since extra games were available in the summer to evaluate the guys.

 

[Caser]

Zykov is injured and is out of SSS and possibly out of WJC too

 

[kp61c]

Zykov is injured and is out of SSS and possibly out of WJC too

judging from what i've seen of him at the last wjc, that's no big loss. he's pretty awful then. yeah, he's an year older but statwise it seems he fares no better than he did two years ago, in terms of his progress it's pretty damning to see. i guess, it'd have been better for him, had he stayed in russia

 

[cska78]

judging from what i've seen of him at the last wjc, that's no big loss. he's pretty awful then. yeah, he's an year older but statwise it seems he fares no better than he did two years ago, in terms of his progress it's pretty damning to see. i guess, it'd have been better for him, had he stayed in russia

 

[Caser]

judging from what i've seen of him at the last wjc, that's no big loss. he's pretty awful then. yeah, he's an year older but statwise it seems he fares no better than he did two years ago, in terms of his progress it's pretty damning to see. i guess, it'd have been better for him, had he stayed in russia

yep, if he would've stayed in Russia, he would already be a KHL regular, just like his CSKA junior team and Russia U17 NT teammates Sergei Stetsenko and Andrei Filonenko are

 

[kp61c]

yep, if he would've stayed in Russia, he would already be a KHL regular, just like his CSKA junior team and Russia U17 NT teammates Sergei Stetsenko and Andrei Filonenko are

what's your point? he went there and now it seems he's degrading. jesus, he's not over 20 yet. his absence for the tournament is not something to cry over. case cloded.

 

[Caser]

what's your point? he went there and now it seems he's degrading. jesus, he's not over 20 yet. his absence for the tournament is not something to cry over. case cloded.

My point is that he basically was nobody (at least nowhere near the top 1995 born guys) before he went to CHL and now he is a top prospect. He might have some issues, but it's really hard for me to imagine that he would have shown that kind of progress if he would stayed in MHL 2 years ago. I just mentioned two other guys from CSKA/Krasnaya Armiya team, who were considered as probably even more talented than Zykov and who have stayed in MHL and didn't show a progress that would be comparable to Zykov's.

 

[kp61c]

My point is that he basically was nobody (at least nowhere near the top 1995 born guys) before he went to CHL and now he is a top prospect. He might have some issues, but it's really hard for me to imagine that he would have shown that kind of progress if he would stayed in MHL 2 years ago.

nobody? he played for the nt for christ's sake, and he's still nowhere near the top 1995 born guys.

 

[Caser]

nobody? he played for the nt for christ's sake, and he's still nowhere near the top 1995 born guys.

Yes, he did play, but he wasn't considered as a top guy there. Nichushkin, Alexeev, Tolchinsky, Barbashev, Zakarlyukin, Dikushin, Ilyin (probably someone else, can't remember everybody now, need to google it properly) were the top 1995 forwards, Zykov certainly wasn't. I can even remember when he went to CHL there were people that confused him with other 1995 born Pavel Zykov.

 

[Atas2000]

There are at least 12 worthy forwards in the CHL

Just no. Being in the CHL doesn't make a player better.

 

[cska78]

My point is that he basically was nobody (at least nowhere near the top 1995 born guys) before he went to CHL and now he is a top prospect. He might have some issues, but it's really hard for me to imagine that he would have shown that kind of progress if he would stayed in MHL 2 years ago. I just mentioned two other guys from CSKA/Krasnaya Armiya team, who were considered as probably even more talented than Zykov and who have stayed in MHL and didn't show a progress that would be comparable to Zykov's.

This rediculous, he was a notch below top 95 and his statsfor red army only show how deep the team is. Filonenko is injured three years straight....clearly u r not up to the par as far as things are in red army

 

[Caser]

This rediculous, he was a notch below top 95 and his statsfor red army only show how deep the team is. Filonenko is injured three years straight....clearly u r not up to the par as far as things are in red army

If we're talking only about the RedArmy team then maybe he was a 'notch below' the top tier forwards (Tolchinsky, Dikushin, Perekhodyuk, Maslyuk), but only from RedArmy school there were also Moiseyev, Maltsev, Gritsenko, Pavel Zykov who were at least not worse than Zykov at that age; not even mentioning other schools (especially the Dynamo youth, at that time 1995 seemed to be really good for Dynamo).

About Filonenko I agree that this is not a good example (by the way, is he still injured?), Stetsenko also struggled with injuries recently by the way, just they were guys that i remembered first.

Ok, let me ask you a question: from 1995 CSKA/RedArmy school, who were the guys that have stayed in Russia and had better career so far than Zykov? I can name only Mamin (although I'm not completely sure if we can consider his career better so far), but maybe you can name more.

 

[cska78]

If we're talking only about the RedArmy team then maybe he was a 'notch below' the top tier forwards (Tolchinsky, Dikushin, Perekhodyuk, Maslyuk), but only from RedArmy school there were also Moiseyev, Maltsev, Gritsenko, Pavel Zykov who were at least not worse than Zykov at that age; not even mentioning other schools (especially the Dynamo youth, at that time 1995 seemed to be really good for Dynamo).

About Filonenko I agree that this is not a good example (by the way, is he still injured?), Stetsenko also struggled with injuries recently by the way, just they were guys that i remembered first.

Ok, let me ask you a question: from 1995 CSKA/RedArmy school, who were the guys that have stayed in Russia and had better career so far than Zykov? I can name only Mamin (although I'm not completely sure if we can consider his career better so far), but maybe you can name more.

Filnenko is still hurt. There is sharov, who was s getting pt for lada. Had grigorenko, zadorov, torch stayed, they d be getting ptin the khl for sure.

 

[cska78]

Zadorov is playing fir buf tonight, makes it unlikely he will be in wjc