GDT: WJC, NYE, Canada vs Germany, 1:30 EST

[nucks88]

Yeah so I ain't stopping with anything I choose to say. I also ain't talking about other countries. I'm talking about Canada and Geekie specifically.

Well hopefully the rest of the games won’t upset you too much…personally I hope they run the rest of the teams out of the rink …..

 

[gritdash60]

Well hopefully the rest of the games won’t upset you too much…personally I hope they run the rest of the teams out of the rink …..

Easy now, might hurt someones feelings

 

[nucks88]

Easy now, might hurt someones feelings

The same people who cheer hits and fights at the games lol.. hypocrites

 

[TheBeastCoast]

No it isn't.
It has been shown by a multitude of long-term studies that concussions during brain development have negative Long Term effects. And that starts with the First concussion you get.

In the NHL and for men its fine but until the brain is developed and especially during the early years of development we should be extra careful.
That does Not mean banning hitting, but to Hit the right way.

Has nothing to do with what I said. Geekie isn't getting a 3-4 game suspension.

 

[Edenjung]

I didn't say that i want one for him. I Just say that He should be more careful with his Hits

If George Michael would have been careful with his, we wouldn't have to endure and suffer through "Last Christmas" every december.

 

[wishywashy19]

what about putting one of our large D to have net screen on the PP.
would that be a great idea for Letang or does he realize most goals scored all day are off of screens

 

[therealdeal]

I’m less riled up hours after the game, a couple thoughts:

The reffing has been inconsistent, and not particularly strong. I’ve seen quite a few games and there have been head scratchers in them all.

Hockey has a big issue, body contact. New players seem unaccustomed to it, as it’s *mostly* gone from the game, but still lurking in the dark. Most hitting is gone, but the hits that do happen, are big, and likely very dangerous even if they can be considered “clean” by certain sets of rules.

An extension of that you can see in these games, and also in the NHL: boarding. Two Canadian players have put themselves in super dangerous places by turning 2-4 feet from the boards. These plays have also plagued the NHL all season long. Nobody seems to know who to hold accountable in these circumstances, refs sometimes go heavy handed on the penalty, then sometimes put all the blame on the player turning, and overturn the call. The worry here is someone will get super hurt before there is a necessary change in coaching, reffing, and discipline.

Other than that, really emotional game, glad no one got hurt, hopefully Germany can fend off relegation.

 

[MeHateHe]

You too! Next time we talk.. I'll be I. Quebec skiing. Not happy about the 830 start.

Don’t you ever stay home?

 

[Heldig]

It's just sad that anyone would think that is a clean hit.

By IIHF rules it is not. THAT is the problem.

Geekies' skates are on the ice. His arms are tucked down. Stick is down. They are facing each other. German player has the puck.

That he (likely) gets suspended for that hit is just sad.

 

[Czechboy]

Don’t you ever stay home?

To quote the great Tragically Hip ....

Escape is at hand for the travelling man!

Happy New Year!

 

[Heldig]

Sure they can be hit. Just don't hit to the head.

How? Geekie towered over that player. Is he supposed to drop to his knees to throw a check?

Curious what your takes are on the checking from behind non-call against Sweden?

 

[Scouter]

That might have been the worst reffing ever in a WJC game, like almost every call went against Canada and for Germany, the refs called harsh penalties on Canada when they should have been lighter or none at all, then when Germany should have been penalized more for their infractions on Canada they were not.

 

[Heldig]

Where it occurs relative to the ice surface, the opportunity it creates or removes, timing, etc..

And throwing a big head very early in the game sets the physical tone the team wants AND sets the opposition on their heals.

Except when IIHF rules get in the way of the intention of the sport.

 

[Yepthatsme]

I’m less riled up hours after the game, a couple thoughts:

The reffing has been inconsistent, and not particularly strong. I’ve seen quite a few games and there have been head scratchers in them all.

Hockey has a big issue, body contact. New players seem unaccustomed to it, as it’s *mostly* gone from the game, but still lurking in the dark. Most hitting is gone, but the hits that do happen, are big, and likely very dangerous even if they can be considered “clean” by certain sets of rules.

An extension of that you can see in these games, and also in the NHL: boarding. Two Canadian players have put themselves in super dangerous places by turning 2-4 feet from the boards. These plays have also plagued the NHL all season long. Nobody seems to know who to hold accountable in these circumstances, refs sometimes go heavy handed on the penalty, then sometimes put all the blame on the player turning, and overturn the call. The worry here is someone will get super hurt before there is a necessary change in coaching, reffing, and discipline.

Other than that, really emotional game, glad no one got hurt, hopefully Germany can fend off relegation.

A downright massive cause is hitting not being introduced until kids are even older now, and not present across all levels. Why (Hockey Canada atleast) decided to wait until kids are older, faster, and stronger to introduce hitting is beyond me, and we are actively seeing the results of players picking up extremely unsafe habits because of it. Players are starting to learn and give hits at points when collisions are more violent based strictly on physics, and are spending more development years picking up habits in non contact leagues. Crazy to think kids are being drafted to the CHL where they can play against 20 year olds after 2 years of contact hockey.

The first hit Poitras received was a perfect example. That is a player putting himself in an extremely dangerous position assuming no body contact, with a move that hardly existed years prior.

 

[Crosby2010]

Just horrid officiating today. I always expect it to be bad at the World Juniors and such with the International refs, but man this was just awful. 9 minutes in power play time the Germans got in total for calls that weren't penalties. It looks like we are creeping back (or did we ever leave) into that European mindset of refereeing that a "loud" clean hit is a penalty. Is it any wonder that we have won half of the tournaments in history here (well, almost half) with the officiating that has traditionally hurt us with our style of play? Anyway, a win is a win, but man there were some forces working against us there.

Oh, and that German player who lay on the ice after the non-high sticking call that I would agree should have been called, that was a disgrace. The kid is desperately trying to lure the ref into a penalty, but he is lying face down on the ice the entire time the puck comes up the ice and even as the puck is going into the net. Some teammate that is. I'd have rung his neck and benched him for good if I were the German coach.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

A downright massive cause is hitting not being introduced until kids are even older now, and not present across all levels. Why (Hockey Canada atleast) decided to wait until kids are older, faster, and stronger to introduce hitting is beyond me, and we are actively seeing the results of players picking up extremely unsafe habits because of it. Players are starting to learn and give hits at points when collisions are more violent based strictly on physics, and are spending more development years picking up habits in non contact leagues. Crazy to think kids are being drafted to the CHL where they can play against 20 year olds after 2 years of contact hockey.

The first hit Poitras received was a perfect example. That is a player putting himself in an extremely dangerous position assuming no body contact, with a move that hardly existed years prior.

IIRC, USA Hockey initiated removal of body-checking at the peewee level first, and Hockey Canada followed suit a couple of years later. They seem to try and harmonize the rules as much as possible, which makes total sense given the number of cross-border tournaments.

I fully agree that bad habits are being introduced when checking, and more importantly, learning how to take a check, are not introduced earlier. It's not just turning towards the boards at the last moment before getting hit. It's also trying to elude a hit by turning out of the way, and practically ensuring knee-on-knee contact for which the defensive player is only partially responsible. Just absorb the hit. It's safer.

Otoh, do we really want 11 and 12 year-old kids checking when the size disparity can be so large at that age?

No simple answers here I'm afraid.

 

[ORRFForever]

That might have been the worst reffing ever in a WJC game, like almost every call went against Canada and for Germany, the refs called harsh penalties on Canada when they should have been lighter or none at all, then when Germany should have been penalized more for their infractions on Canada they were not.

I'm not sure what the solution is. It's been going on for half a century.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I didn't end up watching this game until now.

The TSN broadcast, specifically Mike Johnson, was saying that Geekie's hit is "legal in North America" or something like that.

That's an exaggeration in the best light. Wrong in less than the best light.

You can't follow through into a player's head who isn't bending down. That's some kind of penalty. Not all will call that more than two minutes, but it's a penalty, and if for some reason it's not called one, it's a call in the NHL would have like a 10 page thread with people complaining.

And that's obviously 5 and the game in international hockey.

 

[Hobnobs]

By IIHF rules it is not. THAT is the problem.

Geekies' skates are on the ice. His arms are tucked down. Stick is down. They are facing each other. German player has the puck.

That he (likely) gets suspended for that hit is just sad.

He elevates to hit the head. The hit would be illegal according to NHL standards as well. Weird how people forget that part.

 

[Yepthatsme]

IIRC, USA Hockey initiated removal of body-checking at the peewee level first, and Hockey Canada followed suit a couple of years later. They seem to try and harmonize the rules as much as possible, which makes total sense given the number of cross-border tournaments.

I fully agree that bad habits are being introduced when checking, and more importantly, learning how to take a check, are not introduced earlier. It's not just turning towards the boards at the last moment before getting hit. It's also trying to elude a hit by turning out of the way, and practically ensuring knee-on-knee contact for which the defensive player is only partially responsible. Just absorb the hit. It's safer.

Otoh, do we really want 11 and 12 year-old kids checking when the size disparity can be so large at that age?

No simple answers here I'm afraid.

Weirdly enough I think the answer is go younger. I played rural hockey before moving to the city to play a higher level. Hitting was introduced at the peewee level (U12 nowadays), but we started practicing battle and contact drills in atom (U10). Was a boon to go into contact hockey knowing basic skills on protecting yourself and starting contact, well before simple physics dictate extra size and speed add violence to collisions. It started in a very controlled environment as well.

Players coming up now are putting themselves in brutal situations from having little to no experience in such matters. The button hook when receiving defensive pressure is a direct outcome of this problem, as well as other dangerous hits we are seeing now. The size mismatch in youth sports is an issue, but everyone being larger and more importantly faster when contact is initiated is a larger one.

 

[Sanderson]

I’m less riled up hours after the game, a couple thoughts:

The reffing has been inconsistent, and not particularly strong. I’ve seen quite a few games and there have been head scratchers in them all.

Hockey has a big issue, body contact. New players seem unaccustomed to it, as it’s *mostly* gone from the game, but still lurking in the dark. Most hitting is gone, but the hits that do happen, are big, and likely very dangerous even if they can be considered “clean” by certain sets of rules.

An extension of that you can see in these games, and also in the NHL: boarding. Two Canadian players have put themselves in super dangerous places by turning 2-4 feet from the boards. These plays have also plagued the NHL all season long. Nobody seems to know who to hold accountable in these circumstances, refs sometimes go heavy handed on the penalty, then sometimes put all the blame on the player turning, and overturn the call. The worry here is someone will get super hurt before there is a necessary change in coaching, reffing, and discipline.

Other than that, really emotional game, glad no one got hurt, hopefully Germany can fend off relegation.

Nope, that isn't true in any way.

First of all, hitting isn't remotely close to being "mostly gone". It isn't even approaching such a state at all. It's not at its peak, but very far away from being an issue at all. And no, most of the hitting that happens is of the completely regular type, to seperate an opponent from the puck. Big and dangerous hits have always been the exception, they were never a common thing, much less the standard form of hitting. The odd bad hit has always existed, and players were getting destroyed by those at any time in history. Pretending that it's just players being unprepared now has nothing to do with reality at all. They were just as much unprepared - if not more so, due to blatantly illegal hits being a bit more common - back in the days.

Just like "turning at the last second" is largely a non-issue. It tends to be brought up by people who seem to fail at basic physics. At least 95% of the times someone makes a statement like that, it isn't a case of a player turning at the last second at all, but instead a continuation of a movement that had already started quite a bit prior to the hit. A movement that by the laws of physics won't stop. Somehow players are supposed to overcome the laws of physics to "not put themselves into a vulnerable position", but a player making sure that he is even allowed to hit an opponent before he tries to go for a hit, no, that is way too much to ask. In most instances like this, the hitter knows that he shouldn't got for a hit because the opponent is already in a position were he is not allowed to be hit, or in a movement that will definately und unstoppably put him in such position before the hit happens, yet he goes for it anyway. That goes on the hitter, not the hittee, who in all but the rarest occasions is doing a regular hockey play that happens hundreds of times a day.

How anyone could think it is logical to claim that a player doing a regular hockey play is wrong, but another player blindly going for a hit in complete disregard of whether he is even allowed to or not, is not, is beyond me. You can't run around like a chicken with its head cut off and then proclaim that your acts would have been fine if only the other player had done exactly what you wanted him to do. It's on YOU to make sure that you are allowed to do something, it's not the job of everyone else to accomodate you. Doesn't matter if its regarding a hit, using your stick, or any other thing you could possibly do.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Nope, that isn't true in any way.

First of all, hitting isn't remotely close to being "mostly gone". It isn't even approaching such a state at all. It's not at its peak, but very far away from being an issue at all. And no, most of the hitting that happens is of the completely regular type, to seperate an opponent from the puck. Big and dangerous hits have always been the exception, they were never a common thing, much less the standard form of hitting. The odd bad hit has always existed, and players were getting destroyed by those at any time in history. Pretending that it's just players being unprepared now has nothing to do with reality at all. They were just as much unprepared - if not more so, due to blatantly illegal hits being a bit more common - back in the days.

Just like "turning at the last second" is largely a non-issue. It tends to be brought up by people who seem to fail at basic physics. At least 95% of the times someone makes a statement like that, it isn't a case of a player turning at the last second at all, but instead a continuation of a movement that had already started quite a bit prior to the hit. A movement that by the laws of physics won't stop. Somehow players are supposed to overcome the laws of physics to "not put themselves into a vulnerable position", but a player making sure that he is even allowed to hit an opponent before he tries to go for a hit, no, that is way too much to ask. In most instances like this, the hitter knows that he shouldn't got for a hit because the opponent is already in a position were he is not allowed to be hit, or in a movement that will definately und unstoppably put him in such position before the hit happens, yet he goes for it anyway. That goes on the hitter, not the hittee, who in all but the rarest occasions is doing a regular hockey play that happens hundreds of times a day.

How anyone could think it is logical to claim that a player doing a regular hockey play is wrong, but another player blindly going for a hit in complete disregard of whether he is even allowed to or not, is not, is beyond me. You can't run around like a chicken with its head cut off and then proclaim that your acts would have been fine if only the other player had done exactly what you wanted him to do. It's on YOU to make sure that you are allowed to do something, it's not the job of everyone else to accomodate you. Doesn't matter if its regarding a hit, using your stick, or any other thing you could possibly do.

It’s funny you say all that, especially the last paragraph. The onus is on the hitter to do everything in his power to make sure a hit is clean and legal like you said. Right beside that line in the rules though, is the player being hit has the onus to make sure a legal hit is possible.

You can split hairs between if the player initiated the turning motion before the defender initiated try to make contact, especially when most these fans use slow motion replays to decide on 1/2 second plays. Players initiating contact are going to make mistakes constantly in these situations and it’s where the majority of the dirty hits in today’s game are left. Almost entirely gone are the days of brutally late hits, players chicken winging, or leaping into contact. The majority of awful plays are players with their backs away from the boards and/or playing in the “danger zone” of 3-6 feet away from the boards. Plays you’re taught at a very young age to avoid, yet plays like the button hook when they feel pressure from a defender have never been more common. I’d say it’s completely fair to put some blame on players with the puck for putting themselves in terrible positions, just like it’s fair to blame defending players for also initiating unsafe contact.

 

[aonb]

GER fans, your thoughts on Elias? Watched him in couple of games and highlights in DEL and he was pretty good for a young kid in big boys league. Pre-Tournament games were aight for him as well stats-wise but here he seems to struggle, no points despite first line duties and big minutes with quality partners