GDT: [WJC] Latvia vs. Canada, 6pm EST 10/8/22

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

While we're at it, let's just make it a 5 team tournament. Only include teams that have a real shot at gold.

Or, maybe we let these developing hockey nations continue to develop and get increasingly competitive. Germany used to be a consistently relegated nation, and now they are looking like a tournament mainstay despite missing significant players from their talent pool.

I have no issue with developing hockey nations being in the tournament if they are actually developing.

A team like Germany for example is not winning this tournament but they have made massive strides in development they are making progress every day.

I saw TSN flash up in the corner during the 2nd period that Latvia last win was in 2012.

Assuming that that's accurate and TSN put it up there so I assume it is.

That's 10 year since their last win they aren't developing you can't develop if you can't win at least a game.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I have no issue with developing hockey nations being in the tournament if they are actually developing.

A team like Germany for example is not winning this tournament but they have made massive strides in development they are making progress every day.

I saw TSN flash up in the corner during the 2nd period that Latvia last win was in 2012.

Assuming that that's accurate and TSN put it up there so I assume it is.

That's 10 year since their last win they aren't developing you can't develop if you can't win at least a game.

They haven’t always been in the top 10. So hard to get a win, when your not playing.
When you do qualify in a year, by the time you get to play in the next WJ, the players you qualified with have aged out. It’s tough for the lower teams.

 

[NyQuil]

I have no issue with developing hockey nations being in the tournament if they are actually developing.

A team like Germany for example is not winning this tournament but they have made massive strides in development they are making progress every day.

I saw TSN flash up in the corner during the 2nd period that Latvia last win was in 2012.

Assuming that that's accurate and TSN put it up there so I assume it is.

That's 10 year since their last win they aren't developing you can't develop if you can't win at least a game.

They certainly can’t develop if they don’t even play against any quality competition.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Stop dodging the question. Who does belong then? What's the cut-off point? Czechs haven't won the medal in 18 years, do they belong? Lost to Canada by 3 goals or more in the last 4 games as well.

Yes the Czechs belong because they have proven for decades they xan produce talent.

Canada
USA
Russia (under normal circumstances)
Finland
Sweden
Czechs
Germany sure they aren't going to win but they have made massive strides.
Slovakia they have produced incredible talent.

That's 8 teams off the top of my head and yes I know why Russia isn't here but that's not the players fault these are 16-19 year old kids it's simply not their fault.

We don't need fodder like Latvia and Austria.

 

[Jukurit]

We had that tournament for like 30 years from about 1920 to 1950.

That's quite a long time ago. I think it's time we bring it back.

 

[NyQuil]

We don't need fodder like Latvia and Austria.

I couldn’t disagree more.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Yes the Czechs belong because they have proven for decades they xan produce talent.

Canada
USA
Russia (under normal circumstances)
Finland
Sweden
Czechs
Germany sure they aren't going to win but they have made massive strides.
Slovakia they have produced incredible talent.

That's 8 teams off the top of my head and yes I know why Russia isn't here but that's not the players fault these are 16-19 year old kids it's simply not their fault.

We don't need fodder like Latvia and Austria.

That's usually the main field anyway.....at least when the IIHF isn't busy handing out arbitrary penalties to innocent hockey players.

Add in Kazakhstan every couple of years, or Norway, whichever team gets rotated in, and it works out fairly well. Main contenders end up in the semis more often than not.

 

[bert]

There was nothing smug about me saying he had the most ice time with an lolmixed in but you took it like a champ and called out my contribution to the thread

You felt a need to not discuss the player but to point out he had 1 minute more icetime than the next highest d man. Congrats. You're a hockey genius.

“Civilized debate” coming from a guy who started this by saying the Wings are like his “little brother who scraped his elbow”

Of course his stats dropped from last season. He played a whopping 19 games on a team that lost TWO games the entire year. It was literally impossible for his stats to drop without having the greatest goaltending season in CHL history.

His international resume consists of what, 3.5 games so far? Hell of a sample size you’ve got going.

He wasn’t great this game, but certainly not bad when you only let in two goals.

You’ve made it very evident all you’ve done is stat watch with zero context.

Id be defensive of him too if I were you. He cant track pucks, which results in terrible rebound control. Is an adventure every time there is a scramble or when he is handling the puck. He is big and moves well and is far from even being remotely close to a finished product but as a team Canada fan I dont want him anywhere near the net the rest of the tournament. I am sure the Red Wings will develop him well and get the most out of him but he has a really really long way to go.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

They haven’t always been in the top 10. So hard to get a win, when your not playing.
When you do qualify in a year, by the time you get to play in the next WJ, the players you qualified with have aged out. It’s tough for the lower teams.

The fact that they can't qualify for the tournament consistently actually proves my point even further

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Yes the Czechs belong because they have proven for decades they xan produce talent.

Canada
USA
Russia (under normal circumstances)
Finland
Sweden
Czechs
Germany sure they aren't going to win but they have made massive strides.
Slovakia they have produced incredible talent.

That's 8 teams off the top of my head and yes I know why Russia isn't here but that's not the players fault these are 16-19 year old kids it's simply not their fault.

We don't need fodder like Latvia and Austria.

Latvia just played Canada to a tie in 2 of 3 periods lol.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Yes the Czechs belong because they have proven for decades they xan produce talent.

Canada
USA
Russia (under normal circumstances)
Finland
Sweden
Czechs
Germany sure they aren't going to win but they have made massive strides.
Slovakia they have produced incredible talent.

That's 8 teams off the top of my head and yes I know why Russia isn't here but that's not the players fault these are 16-19 year old kids it's simply not their fault.

We don't need fodder like Latvia and Austria.

So Switzerland indeed doesn't belong according to you but Germany which avoided the relegation round once in the last 20 years does?

Also, do you understand how the promotion/relegation system works? This particular Latvian team is roughly as good as the German one. And looking back at their history, this is a very good German team by their standards. Danes had teams that made quarter-finals 3 years in a row yet now they are 5th in D1A. So were they good or were they "fodder"?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

So Switzerland indeed doesn't belong according to you but Germany which avoided the relegation round once in the last 20 years does?

Also, do you understand how the promotion/relegation system works? This particular Latvian team is roughly as good as the German one. Danes had teams that made quarter-finals 3 years in a row yet now they are 5th in D1A. So were they good or were they "fodder"?

I missed Switzerland that's my bad but the point still stands.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Latvia just played Canada to a tie in 2 of 3 periods lol.

Do you realize how weak that sounds?

Imagine saying "Arizona just played Colorado to a tie in 2 of 3 periods." and viewing that as an accomplishment.

Now imagine saying that about Arizona and Colorado in a game where Colorado plays awful and still beats Arizona 5-2.

That's essentially what you are doing.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I missed Switzerland that's my bad but the point still stands.

Point being what? This Latvian team has 3 drafted players. How many teams have Slovaks, Germans or Swiss brought in with 3 or more draftees over last 10 years or so?

What is your actual argument that this Latvian team is this terrible "fodder"? Because they lost by 3 to Canada? They won against Germany 3-1 in the friendlies 2 days before the tournament by the way which I have no doubt you had no idea about.

Do you realize how weak that sounds?

Do you realize how weak it sounds when you are telling us with straight face that Germany belongs when they literally lost to this Latvian team 3 days ago?

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I have no issue with developing hockey nations being in the tournament if they are actually developing.

A team like Germany for example is not winning this tournament but they have made massive strides in development they are making progress every day.

I saw TSN flash up in the corner during the 2nd period that Latvia last win was in 2012.

Assuming that that's accurate and TSN put it up there so I assume it is.

That's 10 year since their last win they aren't developing you can't develop if you can't win at least a game.

The last time they played Canada they lost 10-2 - I think this counts as progress.

But sure, Latvia isn't developing because they didn't win a game in the last 2 tournaments they participated in.

These have been there opponents since their last win:
Canada x 2
Russia x 2
Finland x 5
USA
Sweden
Czech Republic
Slovakia
Switzerland

In those games, they played some very close matches vs solid teams, including:

2-1 to Finland
4-2 to Czechs
4-2 to Slovakia
4-1 to Finland (twice)
5-2 to Canada

they aren't a contender, but they're not a team to overlook this year. I could definitely see them upsetting a team like Slovakia.

 

[SergeConstantin74]

Crowd in Edmonton last night

Crowd in Quebec on Tuesday for the Gagné-Bergeron Pro-Am

 

[HespelerGreenFlash]

Latvia just played Canada to a tie in 2 of 3 periods lol.

I only caught the third but Latvia outskated Canada for much of that period. That doesnt bode well to me

 

[JT3]

Cossa was projected by most draft experts as a late 1st rounder / early 2nd rounder at best. Wallstedt was clearly the unanimous best goalie prospect in his draft class and a top 10 pick by many here.

Not sure what draft experts you were listening to but Cossa was definitely not projected as a late 1st/early 2nd at best. Bob had him at 15 in his final draft rankings and he was consistently debated against Wallstedt as to who was better, although Wallstedt was generally slightly preferred. But the fact of the matter is we really don't know how most goalies will turn out until they get to their mid 20's anyways.

Also, the doom and gloom in this thread about Canada is comical. It's game 1 of an August tournament against Latvia, relax. I do have to give props to Latvia though, it seems like they've come a decent ways in the last 5 years from the blowouts in the past. Thought they competed hard all game long.

 

[Wats]

I have no issue with developing hockey nations being in the tournament if they are actually developing.

A team like Germany for example is not winning this tournament but they have made massive strides in development they are making progress every day.

I saw TSN flash up in the corner during the 2nd period that Latvia last win was in 2012.

Assuming that that's accurate and TSN put it up there so I assume it is.

That's 10 year since their last win they aren't developing you can't develop if you can't win at least a game.

It's like Canada and soccer. Just because it hasn't happened at world stage doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed to try.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Calling Cossa a bad pick is not trolling. Solid arguments are being given by GermanSpitfire as to why. Attacking his opinion just because you disagree with it is weak.

Cossa was projected by most draft experts as a late 1st rounder / early 2nd rounder at best. Wallstedt was clearly the unanimous best goalie prospect in his draft class and a top 10 pick by many here.

Yzerman trading up for Cossa was bizarre to say the least. He needed a goalie and he traded up to choose the lesser rated goalie. Why? It's yet another example of Yzerman trying to appear smarter than everyone else. We saw it with the ridiculously bad Kasper pick in this past draft.
He wants to built his team his way under his image. And he doesn't care if it goes against consensus opinion of most. It's this level of cockiness that wings fans are going to regret.

Calling Cossa a bad pick is not trolling. Saying you "feel bad" for Wings fans is. Calling an 19 year old kid "mentally weak" may not be trolling, but its just dumb.

And here is Bob Mack's mock draft:

Power pulls away from crowded draft field - TSN.ca

This year’s NHL draft class is showing signs of major unpredictability, but the Michigan defenceman cemented his status as hockey’s top prospect with a strong performance at the IIHF World Championship, Bob McKenzie writes.

www.tsn.ca

Cossa at 15, Wallstedt at 12.

 

[ijuka]

Calling Cossa a bad pick is not trolling. Solid arguments are being given by GermanSpitfire as to why. Attacking his opinion just because you disagree with it is weak.

Cossa was projected by most draft experts as a late 1st rounder / early 2nd rounder at best. Wallstedt was clearly the unanimous best goalie prospect in his draft class and a top 10 pick by many here.

Yzerman trading up for Cossa was bizarre to say the least. He needed a goalie and he traded up to choose the lesser rated goalie. Why? It's yet another example of Yzerman trying to appear smarter than everyone else. We saw it with the ridiculously bad Kasper pick in this past draft.
He wants to built his team his way under his image. And he doesn't care if it goes against consensus opinion of most. It's this level of cockiness that wings fans are going to regret.

It's just pretty incompetent, because goalies can take a while. Whether the arguments are solid or not, declaring such a thing of a young goalie just is off. Cossa's not even performed that poorly. Some setbacks don't make a prospect a bust.

 

[uncleben]

Crowd in Edmonton last night

Crowd in Quebec on Tuesday for the Gagné-Bergeron Pro-Am

Look to the ticket prices

 

[SwivelSchwartz]

Do you realize how weak that sounds?

Imagine saying "Arizona just played Colorado to a tie in 2 of 3 periods." and viewing that as an accomplishment.

Now imagine saying that about Arizona and Colorado in a game where Colorado plays awful and still beats Arizona 5-2.

That's essentially what you are doing.

That’s assuming the talents should be equal. It’s similar to saying a random college or junior team was tied with an nhl all star team, which would actually be impressive.

 

[BigBadBoar]

Yes the Czechs belong because they have proven for decades they xan produce talent.

Canada
USA
Russia (under normal circumstances)
Finland
Sweden
Czechs
Germany sure they aren't going to win but they have made massive strides.
Slovakia they have produced incredible talent.

That's 8 teams off the top of my head and yes I know why Russia isn't here but that's not the players fault these are 16-19 year old kids it's simply not their fault.

We don't need fodder like Latvia and Austria.

This is extremely elitist view. Look, Canada finally made it to the soccer World Cup this autumn. They will be there, it is a big thing for them, however they will be a clear underdog. Just imagine Germany, France, England, Brazil, Argentina and other soccer powers saying "we don't want to play fodder like Canada, let's cut them off." Any tournament has its favourites and underdogs, that's why they are called a World Cup of World Championships. It is the same with soccer, basketball, handball etc. Why should hockey be any exception?

 

[Lays]

Latvia doesn't belong in this tournament, all you have to do to know that is watch last night's game Canada wasn't even close to their A game and they won 5-2.

Latvia has a LONG way to go

Latvia was in the game until two bad calls by the refs that both led to PP goals put them down 3-1