WJC Group B: Dec 31 GDT - Czech Republic vs. Canada (2-5)

[Dr_Chimera*]

I would like to apologize for my earlier comments about Pierre McGuire. Sombody at TSN found a way to let me know of their displeasure with the comments, and after thinking about it, he was right. My comments were out of line, and as moderator of this board, I should have known better than to hit Pierre with a personal slam.

I hope we can all move on, including Pierre and others at TSN who are obviously not to happy with me at the moment.

Sorry guys, I will represent you all better in the future.

Van.

You need a vacation, my man.

As for TSN - any publicity is good publicity, IMO. I'm sure sad that Tuomo Ruutu is not at the tournament - McGuire's pronunciation of his name was well worth the viewing.

 

[Crosbyfan]

You can criticize his style all you want. Even that is open season for me. Just don't make it personal.

Saying he is unprofessional is about as personal as you can get. If I were to have simply left my criticism to some of his specific comments, then the TSN representative wouldn't have sent me an email.

The standard I have set for myself is the standard I expect everybody else to follow....and it is HF rules as well. Don't get personal.

Ok, his style is very different from other professionals, would probably be a reasonable way to put it, after all, he is (obviously) on our side(Canadian)

 

[The Rage]

wrote by The Rage "From what you said, seems he's crtiticising out of control marketing more than another country's hockey culture. And why shouldn't he criticise marketing? Ads are everywhere these days; I can't even take a leak without an ad in my face (in an insitute of higher learning no less). This is way off topic, but anyone who crtiticises ads or rampant marketing gets props from me"
Not saying your comment is wrong just like to add something what McGuire has to understand is and Maybe he does I'm not sure I think European's sports structure heavily depends on these sponsorships & of course ticket sales help too. (Meaning ads all over the place) to keep these sporting events going... European Soccer does the same thing (Beer ads images on jerseys etc)
MS

I have to disagree with you on a few things my friend. First of all, sponsorship is not unique to Europe, as sporting/arts events in North American also supposedly "need" sponsorship. I think that's a load of crap. These types of events went on for years without sponsorship, but now they supposedly "need" sponsorship to happen. European Sports Structure has a dependancy on sponsorship, because they've allowed themselves to have a dependancy on sponsorship. Would Manchester United be bancrupt if they didn't have Vodofone written across their jerseys? Bottom line is, European Sports can survive without sponsorship; they would either make less money, or would have to decrease costs. Soccer teams, for example, would not be spending huge money on transfers or wages. I think, long term, it will really hurt European sports to be associated with excessive marketing. People are becoming dissulusioned by constant branding (see the backlash against Nike sweatshops). Ironically, advertisers are even trying to take advantage of this dissillusionment (see Sprite's "obey your thirst" ads). Fact is, people are tired of having their space invaded by advertisers, and it will be hurtful to European sports to depend on out of control sponsorship.

P.S. I don't think think sponsorship or ads are bad, things have just gotten out of control.

 

[Canadian Chris]

Ok, his style is very different from other professionals, would probably be a reasonable way to put it, after all, he is (obviously) on our side(Canadian)

I think Maguire's style is so different from a lot of others due to the fact that he lets his coaching personality take over. I mean, if a casual fan were to watch a game with Maguire doing the colour, they probably wouldn't understand the half of it because of the lingo he's using..."strongside", "weakside" and the such.

Personally, I think Maguire is great...sure he's a bit over the top, but he's so emotional, and he gets right into the games. It's great. About the homerism he shows, well, he does work for a Canadian sports broadcaster....and currently they are covering Canadian hockey...so I'm thinking he's obviously going to favour Team Canada...

All in all, I really like the way Maguire is on Colour. I enjoy his choice of words because he doesn't hold back.

 

[Crosbyfan]

I think Maguire's style is so different from a lot of others due to the fact that he lets his coaching personality take over. I mean, if a casual fan were to watch a game with Maguire doing the colour, they probably wouldn't understand the half of it because of the lingo he's using..."strongside", "weakside" and the such.

Personally, I think Maguire is great...sure he's a bit over the top, but he's so emotional, and he gets right into the games. It's great. About the homerism he shows, well, he does work for a Canadian sports broadcaster....and currently they are covering Canadian hockey...so I'm thinking he's obviously going to favour Team Canada...

All in all, I really like the way Maguire is on Colour. I enjoy his choice of words because he doesn't hold back.

Fair enough, but I'm not used to a commentator being so one sided and getting ahead of the play. It sounds more like blurt than insight.

 

[PEli*]

As much as McGuire used to drive me nuts, he's one of the more entertaining and knowledgable color guys on TV. Xenophobic? Hardly. Over the top? Absolutely. Entertaining? Yes.

McGuire makes watching hockey a bit more exciting. Who can turn a simple pass into a complicated set of moves while lowering and increasing his volume about fifty times? That's right. PG can. Let's give the guy a billboard! He's making the boring sport of hockey a bit more interesting.

Yeah, the guy's a homer too. So am I. In fact, I'm willing to bet that I'm a bigger homer than PG and anybody else at TSN. That's right Dutch. You heard me. He's on the payroll of the biggest sports network in Canada. What do you expect?

I think it's time to get off the anti-McGuire bandwagon. I did. Sure, I hit my head when I jumped off but it was worth it. He's no worse than Greg Millen and beats the hell out of Neale.

All of that said...bring back Romanuk and Greene. Rock it old school.

 

[punchy1]

As someone who isn't from Canada (kiwi) I can say that I agree with those who say that Pierre is capable of nothing more than vapid useless diatribes on anything that isn't related to team Canada. Now, I am a fan of the wjc tourney and LOVE Canada, its people and especially the impact that they have made on my life by giving me a great game to follow (and even play) but Pierre is at a tourney that is for *the world* and as such he is a defuncto ambassador for Canada. I expect him to act with at least the same amount of dignity that he expects from his countries players. If one of the kids on Team C were to act on the ice in the fashion that he carries his self on the tele he would be disgusted.

TSN is bloody well great in my books for even carrying the tourney and hats off lads but, Pierre comes off as an ass to me. I have some mates who never heard of ice hockey all excited and watching the games and when they hear Pierre they all say the same things, "this fellow is a joke, right?" and such. I can't tell you how many times I have to defend Canada and the game because of his inane yammering about things that don't matter and are offencive to those of us not from North America. One of my mates is a Finn who's brother is a coach for thier national ski team. He says that he can't believe how rude "that guy" (Pierre) is and how wrong some of the comments he made were.

I told him its a cultural thing and he just didn't see the humor or understand what Pierre meant but its rubbish and he knows it. Hel, Don Cherry would be a brilliant choice over Pierre and that is saying something.

You lot (Canadians) are a great group of folks. You deserve to be represented by people who let the rest of the world know that. I know that TSN is a Canadian network so who cares what I, an outsider bloody well thinks about this but, I and others like me, who are in other spots in the world trying to share the game of hockey need all the help we can get. Pierre is a funny bloke and all but he makes it a bit more tuff to make non fans intersted.

Thats my point on it and again, I don't mean to offend as I truly do love Canada and its people and am greatful for the game, I just think tha Pierre doesn't do a great job with the wjcs though he would be fun to watch do color for an NHL or AHL game.The rest is just an opinion and I am daft and all.

Cheers.

 

[gb701]

The most interesting thing out of this discussion about TSN is that they actually follow and apparently care about what is put on here. We can only hope that in addition to acting defensively when someone crosses the "line", they are also passing on the constructive criticism to their broadcast crews so that perhaps we could see some improvement. You might recall after the first game my observation that the commentary was slanted and attempted to force the game into the mode that the broadcasters wanted.

A little less boosterism, a little less "hype" about Crosby when others are playiing better, a little more commentary on what is going well would all be welcome.

Having said all that, at least they are broadcasting the games - and know that some of us are watching!

Happy New Year!

 

[J F M]

Kia Ora punchy1. Love your country of origin! Great beer too!

 

[chicpea*]

I can't tell you how many times I have to defend Canada and the game because of his inane yammering about things that don't matter and are offencive to those of us not from North America

Thanks for the excellent summation. There are several good points made by Punchy1, especially about McGuire's role as cultural "ambassador."
Hint for Punchy: if you want to share and spread hockey throughout NZ, then forget McGuire and just rent "Slapshot" and let your friends watch it hehe.

 

[Zine]

TSN is bloody well great in my books for even carrying the tourney and hats off lads but, Pierre comes off as an ass to me. I have some mates who never heard of ice hockey all excited and watching the games and when they hear Pierre they all say the same things, "this fellow is a joke, right?" and such. I can't tell you how many times I have to defend Canada and the game because of his inane yammering about things that don't matter and are offencive to those of us not from North America. One of my mates is a Finn who's brother is a coach for thier national ski team. He says that he can't believe how rude "that guy" (Pierre) is and how wrong some of the comments he made were.

I'm continually amazed at how readily accepted personalities like McGuire or Cherry are within the Canadian hockey community (enough to at least keep their jobs) - even if a lot of it is tongue in cheeck.
I can somewhat understand some of the sentiment behind it though. Hockey is Canada's game and a very important part of the country's culture, and the thought of another country being better than Canada is a bit threatening so to speak.
This is something that generally isn't seen in the United States though. For example, major league baseball "America's pastime" is being flooded with players from Latin America and more recently Asia. There just doesn't seem to be such an elitist attitude in respect to "our game". A Cherry or McGuire-like announcer making innuendoes about foreign baseball players just wouldn't fly here. ESPN would fire them in a heartbeat, even if most of said comments were made in jest.

 

[chicpea*]

I would like to apologize for my earlier comments about Pierre McGuire...Van.

Van, sorry you had to take the brunt of what many of us feel. You are my Monster Performer of the day.
For the record, Mcguire is very knowledgable about hockey - I have never disputed that. I just don't warm to his delivery - at all. That's fair, as it's my opinion for what it's worth - probably not much.

I mentioned Neale and Cole above as examples of classy (i.e., not crass and puerile) play-by-play and colour (e.g., "offside by an eyelash"; "oh Bob, Stevens really filled him in there..." ) . Contrary to belief, I am a Habs fan and I still love those guys and wish the CBC would carry the WJCs.

 

[chicpea*]

Then that Fox Sportsnet guy that just yells random stuff like “WHAT A PLAY BY MODANO!â€

Now that's funny!

 

[Epsilon]

Van, sorry you had to take the brunt of what many of us feel. You are my Monster Performer of the day.
For the record, Mcguire is very knowledgable about hockey - I have never disputed that. I just don't warm to his delivery - at all. That's fair, as it's my opinion for what it's worth - probably not much.

I mentioned Neale and Cole above as examples of classy (i.e., not crass and puerile) play-by-play and colour (e.g., "offside by an eyelash"; "oh Bob, Stevens really filled him in there..." ) . Contrary to belief, I am a Habs fan and I still love those guys and wish the CBC would carry the WJCs.

Actually Cole and Neale's calls of Canadian olympic hockey are great examples of how you can be cheering for one team and still remain objective and professional with your call of the game action while it is going on. In 1998, Cole was obviously disappointed when the Czechs beat Canada, but he was also perfectly ready to give the Czechs their due and very gracious in defeat. In 2002, same thing the Sweden game, Cole made no attempt to hide the fact that Sweden outplayed Canada. And then when Canada triumphed against the USA for the gold, he wasn't all in your face about it, just very happy with the result.

 

[Brock]

I personally can't stand Pierre Mcguire. He honestly makes me want to punch a hole in the tv with some of the stupid comments he makes.

I can't begin to think how this man had a job as an NHL head coach.

The one comment that stuck with me was the fact that he was calling our 5 for 12 Powerplay on the tournament, poor and that it needed to improve. Last time i checked, a 42% effective powerplay unit is pretty damn impressive.

When can we start the bring back Paul Romaniuk petition?

 

[BCCHL inactive]

Van, sorry you had to take the brunt of what many of us feel. You are my Monster Performer of the day.
For the record, Mcguire is very knowledgable about hockey - I have never disputed that. I just don't warm to his delivery - at all. That's fair, as it's my opinion for what it's worth - probably not much.

This is more or less how I feel. I rarely disagree with any of what Pierre says, or is implying. It is just the way he gets his point across sometimes that rubs me a bit the wrong way.

Chris is also absolutely right. Pierre uses his "coach lingo" on the mic. I understand what he is saying because I coach the game myself, but a lot of people I watch the games with do not. I think this is something that Pierre could work on, or at least explain to people what strong side, weak side, etc. are, so those of us who have not taken coaching clinics know what he is talking about.

I can't begin to think how this man had a job as an NHL head coach.

So you are basing how much McGuire knows about hockey on some comments he says while doing colour commentary on TV?

Get real.

When can we start the bring back Paul Romaniuk petition?

You would have to start at Sportsnet...seen as that is who Romanuk works for now.

 

[ZombieMatt]

I'm continually amazed at how readily accepted personalities like McGuire or Cherry are within the Canadian hockey community (enough to at least keep their jobs) - even if a lot of it is tongue in cheeck.
I can somewhat understand some of the sentiment behind it though. Hockey is Canada's game and a very important part of the country's culture, and the thought of another country being better than Canada is a bit threatening so to speak.
This is something that generally isn't seen in the United States though. For example, major league baseball "America's pastime" is being flooded with players from Latin America and more recently Asia. There just doesn't seem to be such an elitist attitude in respect to "our game". A Cherry or McGuire-like announcer making innuendoes about foreign baseball players just wouldn't fly here. ESPN would fire them in a heartbeat, even if most of said comments were made in jest.

That isn't true at all. Well, sorry, your example is, but basketball is a great example of trying to downplay foreigners success.

Before the draft many commentators, especially Charles Barkley, were extremely critical of Yao Ming simply because he hadn't grown up in the states it seemed, and constantly made very loosely veiled attacks at his heritage.

Now that he has been proven to be the real deal, and a future star, it has died down.

 

[ZombieMatt]

Just for the record, I love the way Mcguire adds to the game. I feel he really enhances the entire game honestly. He knows an insane amount about the game, and continuously shows his knowledge of OTHER prospects other than Canadian kids in this tournament, regardless of what team they play for. He gives players their due, and honestly, I have no problem with him when he laughs a little when a Ukrainian player tries to deke out Phaneuf. We all know he's right, so whats so wrong about that? Nothing against the Ukrainian team, I support them all the way, and they showed more guts just by being here than ANY other team in the tournament I think by overcoming all sorts of financial problems, but their players aren't skilled enough to embarass a quality player like Phaneuf.

I don't know, I really like Pierre, and respect his knowledge a great deal. I'm glad that he calls the games for TSN,and while he may be a little loud or over the top sometimes, I enjoy it.

That's just my take.

 

[Epsilon]

That isn't true at all. Well, sorry, your example is, but basketball is a great example of trying to downplay foreigners success.

Before the draft many commentators, especially Charles Barkley, were extremely critical of Yao Ming simply because he hadn't grown up in the states it seemed, and constantly made very loosely veiled attacks at his heritage.

Now that he has been proven to be the real deal, and a future star, it has died down.

Of course, we still get Dick Vitale doing this every year. Last year every player on his "overrated list" for the draft was a European, and every player on his "underrated list" was (surprise surprise) a college senior.

 

[Takkie]

but i dont know if that counts as bias against europeans specifically, because he loves the euro players in the NCAA, i think he's just biased against any basketball that's not NCAA

 

[Mike8]

I don't get all the fuss about McGuire. I find him to be one of the best colour commentators around. He's colourful, insightful, breaks down a play better than most, and maintains a lot of emotion throughout the game. Most commentators are fairly monotonous, leaving me to use the mute button.

I haven't found McGuire to be all that biased either. Maybe I've missed a few comments, but as much as he hypes individual players on Team Canada he's been just as quick to point out lazy plays or dives by them as well. The fact that he talks and hypes Canadian players more than other countries' players is only natural from a Canadian commentator appealing to a Canadian audience, calling all the Canadian games, after (likely) following the Canadian selection camp.

I haven't seen any indication of Pierre McGuire showing prejudice against European players. I've heard a lot of McGuire commentary over the years, especially since he did colour for Montreal games a couple years back, and haven't heard any sign of prejudice then either. In fact, the player he's hyped the most over the years and can't stop singing praises for is Vladimir Malakhov, whose country of origin is none other than Canada's greatest hockey rival.

Frankly, I saw a lot more prejudice against the Russian and Czech teams from Gary Greene. Especially in Kovalchuk's year at the WJC, when Greene spearheaded the bandwagon against Kovalchuk. I remember him sounding extremely bitter as the game became out of reach for Team Canada against the Russians as well, contrary to McGuire's giving nothing but praise for Russia's (deserved) win over Canada in 2003.

 

[Epsilon]

but i dont know if that counts as bias against europeans specifically, because he loves the euro players in the NCAA, i think he's just biased against any basketball that's not NCAA

That's actually what I meant, I was going to edit it to "European leaguer" but then forgot about it. Vitale doesn't like high school kids much either, except of course LeBron James who he popped a big rod over. Although, I'm sure he would have praised LeBron 1000 times more had he gone to Duke for a year or something.

 

[punchy1]

Kia ora Mate. Cheers.