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WJC - Byfield Thoughts

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Habs fan here. A word to retain. Patience. It tooks 3 years to understand why my team, Montreal, selected Kotkaniemi over Tkachuk in ottawa. Bambi kotkaniemi vs big bad tkachuk. Last playoff, i saw, a Kotkaniemi really different. He was bigger, stronger, really better and his game had really improved versus at his beggining. During this time, Tkachuk was already a beast in Ottawa. Probably your Byfield will still be in junior during Stuezle will play in Ottawa but this is not a reason to throw the towel about this player.
 
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LAKings88 said:
You honestly seem like you don’t want to hear any criticism of either player. You act as if it’s complete overreaction and blow it off.
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I know I also come across as defensive at times, for that I apologize.

My growing issues with the criticisms are:
- projecting a career on a very small sample size
- over-exaggerating of the status of the player (he doesn't belong, etc)
- failure to recognize the positives as well
- failing/refusing to contextualize the performance

Mind you, these criticisms of the negatives can and should be applied to positive/praising posts/attitudes about a prospect. If Byfield were dominating the tournament, I'd still have tempered expectations, know he has facets to work on, and it's such an odd year, that I think the competition is off-kilter.

I just think most of us have been around and discussing hockey enough to be able to demand better from each other as far as having an honest discussion. I'm not saying "don't criticize" nor would I say "don't praise." But some pushback is reasonable if there are missing layers to analysis, whichever side of the fence you stand on.
 
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King'sPawn said:
I know I also come across as defensive at times, for that I apologize.

My growing issues with the criticisms are:
- projecting a career on a very small sample size
- over-exaggerating of the status of the player (he doesn't belong, etc)
- failure to recognize the positives as well
- failing/refusing to contextualize the performance

Mind you, these criticisms of the negatives can and should be applied to positive/praising posts/attitudes about a prospect. If Byfield were dominating the tournament, I'd still have tempered expectations, know he has facets to work on, and it's such an odd year, that I think the competition is off-kilter.

I just think most of us have been around and discussing hockey enough to be able to demand better from each other as far as having an honest discussion. I'm not saying "don't criticize" nor would I say "don't praise." But some pushback is reasonable if there are missing layers to analysis, whichever side of the fence you stand on.
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Agreed, I don’t want to come off as Byfield being a bust and a complete downer either. All the potential is there and his development will be key. He has not had a bad tournament but I admit to having placed higher expectations on him. The tournament will be a good experience win or lose. I have concerns that go back to my own nitpicking of him and Stutzle for months. I guess I’ll always be second guessing him over Stutzle. Just hoping Byfield will in time elevate and dominate over better competition.
 
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MrGuyPerson said:
For those that remember my pre-draft posts I was obviously extremely high on Stützle. That being restated, any concern about Byfield is pretty silly. Going into the draft I said Byfield needed/needs another year of junior. There is now a bit of supporting evidence to that, but it doesn't change that when he was drafted it included the intent to pursue that development path. It was commonly said and seemingly understood that he would not be immediately ready to contribute in the NHL. He was drafted for what he would be 2-3 seasons later not the what he could bring this season.

It is unfortunate because I'm not sure if it was covid, the success of the other potential picks, or a combination of the two factors but impatience seems to be lighting a bit of a fire. Byfield not having his OHL season to this point has muddled his development or more accurately the perception of his development a bit. Timmy Stützle playing at WJ like Timmy Studs-La certainly hasn't helped. It looks like Timmy is gonna have and impact in the NHL sooner and thats pouring a bit of gas on the fire. Once again though that was a known difference between the players as picks. Overall the development plan is still going in the exact direction intended when Byfield was drafted. At some point it seems like the expectation shifted for fans from 2-3 seasons to well covid happened so maybe we will just bring him in now and he will just take off running. He's not ready, long development was the expectation. Everyone's gotta chill. Yeah, it will suck watching Stützle be Studs-la, but the hope is in 2-3 years should be worth the wait. Waiting does suck, but again everyone(most importantly team execs) seemed pretty on board with it going into the draft. It took Couturier 7 seasons to bring offense to the table. Byfield will still likely contribute sooner than that
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I said it pre draft it will take up to 5 years for QB to reach his NHL potential. He is still very young, body still growing. Kings management knew this and are willing to go down the longer path... so should we.
Patience is key, we still haven't seen the full potential of Vilardi and he is 21. I expect QB to be a force at about that same age.

We don't draft prospects so they can appease the WJC fans, we draft them to become NHL players(or assests) to help win a cup.
 
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MrGuyPerson said:
For those that remember my pre-draft posts I was obviously extremely high on Stützle. That being restated, any concern about Byfield is pretty silly. Going into the draft I said Byfield needed/needs another year of junior. There is now a bit of supporting evidence to that, but it doesn't change that when he was drafted it included the intent to pursue that development path. It was commonly said and seemingly understood that he would not be immediately ready to contribute in the NHL. He was drafted for what he would be 2-3 seasons later not the what he could bring this season.

It is unfortunate because I'm not sure if it was covid, the success of the other potential picks, or a combination of the two factors but impatience seems to be lighting a bit of a fire. Byfield not having his OHL season to this point has muddled his development or more accurately the perception of his development a bit. Timmy Stützle playing at WJ like Timmy Studs-La certainly hasn't helped. It looks like Timmy is gonna have and impact in the NHL sooner and thats pouring a bit of gas on the fire. Once again though that was a known difference between the players as picks. Overall the development plan is still going in the exact direction intended when Byfield was drafted. At some point it seems like the expectation shifted for fans from 2-3 seasons to well covid happened so maybe we will just bring him in now and he will just take off running. He's not ready, long development was the expectation. Everyone's gotta chill. Yeah, it will suck watching Stützle be Studs-la, but the hope is in 2-3 years should be worth the wait. Waiting does suck, but again everyone(most importantly team execs) seemed pretty on board with it going into the draft. It took Couturier 7 seasons to bring offense to the table. Byfield will still likely contribute sooner than that
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Yep. He was never the "right now" pick but we still have a large portion of the fan base that routinely pencils in D + 1 guys in to the lineup like it is magic. I'm not saying that makes our fan base different than others--it doesn't--but it does go back to what I said earlier about excuses for underwhelming performances (My favorite being the Thomas Hickey WJC experience...Subban is a hot dog and this type of WJC play doesn't translate while Hickey is awesome), lofty projections for good performances (Current one is Faber should have gone 1st Round...perhaps) and outright panic (Byfield is Andy Andreoff...c'mon now). That's just the nature of the beast of fandom and, like you said, it is very much exacerbated by the COVID offseason and especially for those fan bases that haven't had anything to f***ing watch or do except talk about the draft. Talk about Byfield/Stuetzle for months and months and you are going to get overreactions to the early returns once you see them play.

I've made "excuses" for Byfield on the Main Board but it also doesn't mean I don't have concerns: they are just the same concerns I had going in to the draft. He does not get in to these tournaments and start handling the puck like a hand grenade or look like he doesn't know how to play hockey: he just doesn't even try to play the same game that he does when he is the only dude on Sudbury. I'd like him to act like he is the best player in his age range--even if he currently isn't--but he just hasn't stepped up in these tournaments. I worry if he is too timid but then I see him be "the guy" in Sudbury even as a 16 year old in the OHL playoffs and that concern is alleviated a bit.

Stuetzle looks great. It isn't a surprise. He is way more polished right now and that was always known. What I will say is that Byfield would have a much better eye test result if he was tasked with carrying the German team. If Stuetzle and Peterka aren't pushing the offense, what happens for Germany? If Byfield just puts out workman-like shifts against that undermanned German team, what happens? 16-2 Canada. It's like when we watch Kopitar play a certain way here in LA and then he goes to the Slovenian team as a one-man show and all of a sudden he is flashing skill and riskier plays all over the ice because he has to if they want a chance to win. Give Byfield 30 minutes against Slovakia with the 2nd best player on his team riding shotgun and he's going to make some wow plays v. 11 minutes with the worst forward on his team. That end-to-end rush by Stuetzle last game was awesome but am I supposed to think that Byfield with a full head of steam like Stuetzle had couldn't do the same thing?

I haven't changed my stance on the two players. Of course, one would prefer instant gratification and we'd all naturally feel better if he was dominating. Most of us have been here for a long time and seen prospects go through all kinds of ups-and-downs so I'm not going to freak out over this. There is a time to start legitimately having doubts (the entirety of Turcotte's D + 1 season is a good example) but to do so right now is completely wild.
 
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Feels like DejaVu from last years' WJC with Turcotte. This year not one thread about his improvement. Or the Vilardi haters that said he'll never play again...seems they went into hiding.
 
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Mats26 said:
Feels like DejaVu from last years' WJC with Turcotte. This year not one thread about his improvement. Or the Vilardi haters that said he'll never play again...seems they are went into hiding.
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It's great to see Turcotte playing better but it would be more of a story if he was struggling in his D + 2 year v. looking better than last year.

The issue with Turcotte was the entirety of his D + 1 year didn't go as hoped. Of course, that doesn't mean he will be a bust but he lost a little shine. Prospects projections seem to rise and fall like my fantasy football team's projection if a guy scores a TD on the first drive, however.

In Byfield's case, he's apparently lost a lot of shine after three total games played in his D + 1 year.
 
BigKing said:
Yep. He was never the "right now" pick but we still have a large portion of the fan base that routinely pencils in D + 1 guys in to the lineup like it is magic. I'm not saying that makes our fan base different than others--it doesn't--but it does go back to what I said earlier about excuses for underwhelming performances (My favorite being the Thomas Hickey WJC experience...Subban is a hot dog and this type of WJC play doesn't translate while Hickey is awesome), lofty projections for good performances (Current one is Faber should have gone 1st Round...perhaps) and outright panic (Byfield is Andy Andreoff...c'mon now). That's just the nature of the beast of fandom and, like you said, it is very much exacerbated by the COVID offseason and especially for those fan bases that haven't had anything to f***ing watch or do except talk about the draft. Talk about Byfield/Stuetzle for months and months and you are going to get overreactions to the early returns once you see them play.

I've made "excuses" for Byfield on the Main Board but it also doesn't mean I don't have concerns: they are just the same concerns I had going in to the draft. He does not get in to these tournaments and start handling the puck like a hand grenade or look like he doesn't know how to play hockey: he just doesn't even try to play the same game that he does when he is the only dude on Sudbury. I'd like him to act like he is the best player in his age range--even if he currently isn't--but he just hasn't stepped up in these tournaments. I worry if he is too timid but then I see him be "the guy" in Sudbury even as a 16 year old in the OHL playoffs and that concern is alleviated a bit.

Stuetzle looks great. It isn't a surprise. He is way more polished right now and that was always known. What I will say is that Byfield would have a much better eye test result if he was tasked with carrying the German team. If Stuetzle and Peterka aren't pushing the offense, what happens for Germany? If Byfield just puts out workman-like shifts against that undermanned German team, what happens? 16-2 Canada. It's like when we watch Kopitar play a certain way here in LA and then he goes to the Slovenian team as a one-man show and all of a sudden he is flashing skill and riskier plays all over the ice because he has to if they want a chance to win. Give Byfield 30 minutes against Slovakia with the 2nd best player on his team riding shotgun and he's going to make some wow plays v. 11 minutes with the worst forward on his team. That end-to-end rush by Stuetzle last game was awesome but am I supposed to think that Byfield with a full head of steam like Stuetzle had couldn't do the same thing?

I haven't changed my stance on the two players. Of course, one would prefer instant gratification and we'd all naturally feel better if he was dominating. Most of us have been here for a long time and seen prospects go through all kinds of ups-and-downs so I'm not going to freak out over this. There is a time to start legitimately having doubts (the entirety of Turcotte's D + 1 season is a good example) but to do so right now is completely wild.
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And that's where a lot of the criticism comes from. He's been quite underwhelming in international tournaments with the best players in his age group. At some point you'd expect his talent to come through regardless of the role he's been given and see him produce like he does in the OHL. When you see his stats in tourneys and then look at a guy from the same age group like Perfetti, it makes you wonder.

I know bigger guys take a while to fully develop for the most part but at the same time not standing out among his peers is a bit of a concern
 
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kingpest19 said:
And that's where a lot of the criticism comes from. He's been quite underwhelming in international tournaments with the best players in his age group. At some point you'd expect his talent to come through regardless of the role he's been given and see him produce like he does in the OHL. When you see his stats in tourneys and then look at a guy from the same age group like Perfetti, it makes you wonder.

I know bigger guys take a while to fully develop for the most part but at the same time not standing out among his peers is a bit of a concern
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Totally get it and it raises concerns, concerns that we had going into the draft. You'd like to see him overcome this with the remaining games but I'm not sure what he'd have to do to jump up to more ice time unless Canada starts to falter. If they are rolling and he looks good in his current role, there won't be any reason to change things. Canada's coach doesn't give two shits about Byfield's development or where he was drafted.
 
BigKing said:
Totally get it and it raises concerns, concerns that we had going into the draft. You'd like to see him overcome this with the remaining games but I'm not sure what he'd have to do to jump up to more ice time unless Canada starts to falter. If they are rolling and he looks good in his current role, there won't be any reason to change things. Canada's coach doesn't give two shits about Byfield's development or where he was drafted.
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I think he'd have to keep doing what he's been doing while taking his game up a notch or two and show the coaches he's deserving of more time. What hes showing is that he will do what the coaches ask of him which is a good thing but it would be nice to see him elevate his game and force the coaches hand
 
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Ziggy Stardust said:
Because making predictions on how ones career will project after these games is completely reasonable. I’m the one being extreme here when suggesting that expectations should be tempered.
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No one's predicting anything. You're missing the point. I haven't seen anyone here call him a bust. The only point I'm making is that he's far from being NHL ready and that's bad for a person drafted so high. Can he put it together? Yeah, possibly.

My entire issue with Byfield vs Stuetzle was that Stuetzle seemed to be closer to his ceiling while Byfield seemed to be further from his. Byfield has a higher ceiling than Stuetzle but I had doubts from watching him play, that he'd be able to hit it.


Just look at where Kopitar was drafted. Tell me how Kopitar was able to make an immediate impact from his draft position, and Byfield being a "project", while also "far from being NHL ready" shouldn't be a concern. Again not saying he will bust, but it doesn't look good no matter how rose colored your glasses are.
 
Sol said:
No one's predicting anything. You're missing the point. I haven't seen anyone here call him a bust. The only point I'm making is that he's far from being NHL ready and that's bad for a person drafted so high. Can he put it together? Yeah, possibly.
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He’ll still be 18 when the Stanley Cup is awarded in 2021. I don’t think Byfield not being in the NHL this season is harmful for his development or a bad thing. I see him being ready in some capacity the following season.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
He’ll still be 18 when the Stanley Cup is awarded in 2021. I don’t think Byfield not being in the NHL this season is harmful for his development or a bad thing. I see him being ready in some capacity the following season.
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Let's hope this isn't indicative of anything.
 
three assists so far, is he good yet? are we feeling better about drafting him after this one game?
 
kilowatt said:
three assists so far, is he good yet? are we feeling better about drafting him after this one game?
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yes, he is now good. until next period, when he will undoubtedly do something that looks bad to me personally, at which point i will say “he looks lost out there” or some other kinda vague bad-faithy something or other!
 
tbrown33 said:
yes, he is now good. until next period, when he will undoubtedly do something that looks bad to me personally, at which point i will say “he looks lost out there” or some other kinda vague bad-faithy something or other!
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Don't need to wait till next period. His third assist has the experts pointing out how bad he is.
 
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