I just don't understand how Gorton who seems to be a competent GM for the most part can't see something that we all can see. Will he even have a chance to show that he's an elite goalie if things go well with Shestyorkin?
Prospect Info: With the 39th Overall Pick the New York Rangers Select Olof Lindbom
- Thread starter Pavel Buchnevich
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I just don't understand how Gorton who seems to be a competent GM for the most part can't see something that we all can see. Will he even have a chance to show that he's an elite goalie if things go well with Shestyorkin?
- Jan 18, 2012
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Lindbom will be essential, in that he will hopefully be NHL ready when we'll be enjoying the fruits of the 'retool/rebuild'.. AKA the 'cup runs'... 2022-2025 he could be on an ELC...
Not paying your goalie 13% of the cap could allow you to keep a difference maker on offense or defense. In shesty's case, the cap-hit would be less, but the point still remains.
Not paying your goalie 13% of the cap could allow you to keep a difference maker on offense or defense. In shesty's case, the cap-hit would be less, but the point still remains.
haveandare
Registered User
Schnieder had a chance to show it behind Luongo. If the best case plays out and he's an absolutely top notch goalie, it'll be clear and he'll return something good imo. I still think this wasn't a great pick because theres no much to suggest he wouldn't have been there next round.
Also, I'm excited about Shestyorkin but he's not a good NHL starter until he's a good NHL starter and he won't even have a chance to start to show that until maybe next season.
- Jan 18, 2012
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LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
OK... but how in the world are you "Dead set" this kid is the next Hank when you took Hank in the 7th rd. and as of now this kid wasn't even the top ranked goalie in this draft????
I get K'Andre because he was "THEIR GUY" some can dispute the move up for him. But how do you get that from this kid and then take him with your ONLY 2nd rd. pick after trading your other away???
It boggles the mind. But again... the horse is dead (I just hadn't posted my dismayed thoughts on it as of yet)
NYR Viper
Registered User
Hank wasn't the 'top goalie' in his draft either though. There are plenty of goalies that aren't 'top goalies' in their draft year that make it as starters in the NHL.
IMO The Rangers decided they were taking certain players in this draft going in. Thy clearly targeted Kravtsov, Miller, Lindbom and Hughes (2nd to last pick) going in because they saw something. They may have decided they wanted a goalie this year in the draft and that this was the ONLY goalie they could project as a starter in this years crop. If that was the case and they knew the rest of the draft was going defense/forward, perhaps this would make some sense.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
Yet the needs of our pool (not even our team) are not in net.
We have 3 who probably won't even be anywhere near the roster this season and one who won't be in the AHL
NYR Viper
Registered User
I don't know if I agree with that though. This kid will not be ready before Hank is gone. So he is out. Shestyorkin and Georgiev are both 22 years old right now, this kid is 17.
With the direction the league is moving, it would appear teams are moving towards a (2) goalie system. Assuming he would be ready ~23 years old (which seems reasonable for a goalie), both Shestyorkin and Georgiev will be 28. That would be right around the time they most likely will be looking to get a large pay-day like most players when their RFA years run out. Wouldn't it be nice to have a young goalie coming in behind them capable of taking over so the team can control cost at the goalie position?
Now, I am not saying this is the right kid to do that, but taking a goalie makes sense based solely on the fact that they take so long to develop.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
Not disagreeing there but the 2nd round selection still makes less than zero sense... even IF he was "their guy"
Irishguy42
Mr. Preachy
The value for superstar goalies just isn't there. Of the 3 biggest dynasties post-lockout only Quick was a star goalie, Murray was very good but no star, Crawford and Niemi were ok at best. And Quick was really only elite in 2012. 2014 he was clutch but not some superstar. Price has no cups, Lundqvist has no cups, Rask has no cups, Luongo has no cups, Rinne has no cups, Hasek had no cups until he got on a stacked Wings team.
Cup winning goalies since the lockout:
2006 Ward: Average to slightly above average goalie
2007 Giguere: Good, not great goalie. Didn't even win a cup in the year he was elite (2003)
2008 Osgood: Closer to average than to elite.
2009 Fleury: Once again good, not great, best season was probably this season for him with VGK.
2010 Niemi: More of a punchline than anything now.
2011 Thomas: Great goalie for a few years.
2012 Quick: Elite season in 2012, otherwise he's a very good but not elite goalie.
2013 Crawford: Good not great.
2014: Quick
2015: Crawford
2016: Murray: Good but not great.
2017: Murray
2018: Holtby: Great goalie that didn't make past the second round until this year
Only Thomas, Quick, and Holtby are arguably elite. Of course most are good goalies. But we have the best goalie coach in the league, if he can't get a guy like Shestyorkin to the good level then I'd be absolutely shocked.
Hunter Gathers
The Crown
Since there is discussion of this pick in the Keane thread, let's look at 39th overall picks from 2015 and back to 2000.
2015: A.J. Greer hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2014: Vitek Vanecek hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2013: Laurent Dauphin hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2012: Lukas Sutter hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2011: John Gibson (b.1993) hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Solid starting goalie)
2010: Brett Bulmer hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2009: Jakob Silfverberg hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Solid 40-point, middle 6 NHL player)
2008: Eric O'Dell hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (41 NHL games, Euro leagues now)
2007: Simon Hjalmarsson hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2006: Andreas Nodl hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (128 NHL games, Euro leagues now)
2005: Petr Kalus (b.1987) hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2004: Jordan Smith (b.1985) hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2003: Tim Ramholt hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2002: Brian McConnell hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2001: Karel Pilar hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (90 NHL games, Euro leagues now)
2000: Teemu Laine hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
The idea that Lindbom has to be anything more than a long-time back-up NHL player for this to be a successful pick is utterly laughable.
2015: A.J. Greer hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2014: Vitek Vanecek hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2013: Laurent Dauphin hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2012: Lukas Sutter hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2011: John Gibson (b.1993) hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Solid starting goalie)
2010: Brett Bulmer hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2009: Jakob Silfverberg hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Solid 40-point, middle 6 NHL player)
2008: Eric O'Dell hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (41 NHL games, Euro leagues now)
2007: Simon Hjalmarsson hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2006: Andreas Nodl hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (128 NHL games, Euro leagues now)
2005: Petr Kalus (b.1987) hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2004: Jordan Smith (b.1985) hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2003: Tim Ramholt hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2002: Brian McConnell hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
2001: Karel Pilar hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (90 NHL games, Euro leagues now)
2000: Teemu Laine hockey statistics and profile at hockeydb.com (Trash)
The idea that Lindbom has to be anything more than a long-time back-up NHL player for this to be a successful pick is utterly laughable.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
The root of the issue here is that there was first round talent left on the board
What other 39th overall picks have done in the last 15 years is irrelevant imo
If he turns into an NHL player, whether it be a starter or backup, I’ll eat my words and say the pick was fine.
But at this moment, he was a poor selection where he was taken and will continue to be until proven otherwise.
You have to pick for value in the 2nd to 7th rounds and if a first round talent falls to your pick you take them. For all the busts you’ll have your hits like DeBrincat who was taken 39th in 2016
What other 39th overall picks have done in the last 15 years is irrelevant imo
If he turns into an NHL player, whether it be a starter or backup, I’ll eat my words and say the pick was fine.
But at this moment, he was a poor selection where he was taken and will continue to be until proven otherwise.
You have to pick for value in the 2nd to 7th rounds and if a first round talent falls to your pick you take them. For all the busts you’ll have your hits like DeBrincat who was taken 39th in 2016
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Harbour Dog
Registered User
"If he becomes a career NHL backup, then the pick would of been successful."
As long as that statment isn't meant as a defense of the selection, then I agree with it.
As long as that statment isn't meant as a defense of the selection, then I agree with it.
obviously, they keep drafting goalie prospects basically betting that they bust.
Amazing Kreiderman
Registered User
- Apr 11, 2011
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First round talent some teams passed up on even in the 2nd round before we made our pick. People talk about the draft as if there's some kind of certainty when drafting the guys they think are better.
Cag29
94! I’m ready for more! LGR!
- Jul 18, 2018
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Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
My personal frustration with this scouting staff is they sometimes think they know better than everyone else
If Lindbom was their guy, fine. But I have a hard time defending a decision when the guy was projected by all the major scouting services to be available on rounds 5-7 and they jump and take him at 39.
Did no one on the scouting staff say “hey, we can get this guy later in the draft, let’s grab someone else with 39”
Unless the situation played out like the Miller pick where they knew they had to trade up to before Anaheim to grab him because the Ducks were gonna take him. But that seems unlikely
Again, I’ll eat my words if he pans out but he was a bad value pick
If Lindbom was their guy, fine. But I have a hard time defending a decision when the guy was projected by all the major scouting services to be available on rounds 5-7 and they jump and take him at 39.
Did no one on the scouting staff say “hey, we can get this guy later in the draft, let’s grab someone else with 39”
Unless the situation played out like the Miller pick where they knew they had to trade up to before Anaheim to grab him because the Ducks were gonna take him. But that seems unlikely
Again, I’ll eat my words if he pans out but he was a bad value pick
- Aug 5, 2010
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Keane was taken in the 3rd round and seems to be a very good value pick. Would you feel better / different if the situation was flipped and Keane was taken before Lindbom? If so then you should trust them as they really do know better.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
No I would think they reached on both
Keane is a fine pick where he is. He was projected to potentially go in the 4th. Big difference between taking a 4th round guy in the 3rd and taking a 5-7th round guy in the 2nd
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
It’s literally the job of the scouting staff to know better than everyone else.
Ah the irony. Scouts are paid to form their own opinions, not to accept the "consensus" like they were delivered on stone tablets.
Oscar Lindberg
Registered User
Sure you have a point
But there are times when it just makes sense to accept the consensus
This pick was one of them
