Blue Jays Discussion: Winter Meetings: Because there's no more fitting time to talk baseball than December

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I am surprised Sipp hasn't signed yet.

Word is he wants to stay in Houston, they know it, and they're sandbagging him.

 

[The Nemesis]

From Wilner: Source: #Bluejays very likely to make at least one selection in tomorrow's Rule 5 draft, though picking 21st will be a hindrance. #Jays

Hmmmmm. Any quality players available?

Almost never anyone of actual current quality available through Rule 5. Best we might see is them take a flier on a reliever. Fangraphs' projection system KATOH figures there might be some value in potential pickups like Miguel Selbaran from the Yankees or Cesar Vargas from the Padres. Neither are blow-you-away prospects obviously (since this is the rule 5 draft) but they're decent enough LHPs who could be had. So...

Of course, picking in teh rule 5 draft also includes picking in the minor league phases. There's basically no downside to them taking guys from the later rounds to try out in Buffalo or New Hampshire.

 

[Bad News Benning]

Our old pal Bonifacio signed with the Braves for 1.25. How did he manage to get more then league minimum??

I don't know....but....

Emmillllioooooo

 

[Cor]

Almost never anyone of actual current quality available through Rule 5. Best we might see is them take a flier on a reliever. Fangraphs' projection system KATOH figures there might be some value in potential pickups like Miguel Selbaran from the Yankees or Cesar Vargas from the Padres. Neither are blow-you-away prospects obviously (since this is the rule 5 draft) but they're decent enough LHPs who could be had. So...

Of course, picking in teh rule 5 draft also includes picking in the minor league phases. There's basically no downside to them taking guys from the later rounds to try out in Buffalo or New Hampshire.

Don't Rule 5 guys need to remain on the big league roster?

 

[The Nemesis]

I don't know....but....

Emmillllioooooo

Remember when we all thought he was going to be the secret key to that Marlins deal? Man, I feel pretty stupid for having believed he could be some sort of super-utility base-stealing wizard.

 

[Woodman19]

From Wilner: Source: #Bluejays very likely to make at least one selection in tomorrow's Rule 5 draft, though picking 21st will be a hindrance. #Jays

Hmmmmm. Any quality players available?

Not sure but if I had to guess, its going to be a power pitcher who we can stash in the bullpen.

 

[Cor]

Imagine if we somehow got Jose Fernandez.

But we won't. Shapiro doesn't make deals like that.

Seems something AA would be working on though

 

[Cor]

Not sure but if I had to guess, its going to be a power pitcher who we can stash in the bullpen.

That's what Wilner thought.

Also said it wouldn't be shocking to see us take a batter as well

 

[Woodman19]

If we could get a few arms to push some guys to AAA, we would be in great shape for next year in terms of depth.

 

[Longshot]

Serious question, who was the last Rule 5 guy to (eventually) make an impact anywhere?

I know way back in the day sometimes these guys would turn into stars (George Bell was a Rule 5 guy, so was Bautista at one point - not with the Jays). Years ago there were fewer teams, which meant organization had more talent in the pipeline and some guys would fall through the cracks.

To me, it feels like the Rule 5 is one of those things everybody talks about the day before/day of and then there is never an impact again.

 

[p.l.f.]

barney alright

 

[SDig14]

Imagine if we somehow got Jose Fernandez.

But we won't. Shapiro doesn't make deals like that.

Seems something AA would be working on though

Except we don't have the prospect capital to trade for Jose Fernandez.

 

[dredeye]

It also seems like Shapiro is running things if teams are calling him and not Atkins

Atkins has said he'd be taking a back seat until some time in the new year to get more of a grasp on the team. Your point stands though. They should be calling Lacava

 

[The Nemesis]

Serious question, who was the last Rule 5 guy to (eventually) make an impact anywhere?

I know way back in the day sometimes these guys would turn into stars (George Bell was a Rule 5 guy, so was Bautista at one point - not with the Jays). Years ago there were fewer teams, which meant organization had more talent in the pipeline and some guys would fall through the cracks.

To me, it feels like the Rule 5 is one of those things everybody talks about the day before/day of and then there is never an impact again.

Delino DeShields Jr was a rule 5 pick last year, I think. But you're right in that chances are you're not likely to see a guy from the rule 5 become a big impact player.

 

[p.l.f.]

Tigers get Justin Wilson off the yanks
he was a decent 3/4 for their pen

 

[Longshot]

Delino DeShields Jr was a rule 5 pick last year, I think. But you're right in that chances are you're not likely to see a guy from the rule 5 become a big impact player.

I forgot about him. If memory serves me right, wasn't Wilner advocating the Jays take him? I don't think he reached them when they picked.

 

[hoc123]

Serious question, who was the last Rule 5 guy to (eventually) make an impact anywhere?

I know way back in the day sometimes these guys would turn into stars (George Bell was a Rule 5 guy, so was Bautista at one point - not with the Jays). Years ago there were fewer teams, which meant organization had more talent in the pipeline and some guys would fall through the cracks.

To me, it feels like the Rule 5 is one of those things everybody talks about the day before/day of and then there is never an impact again.

If I'm not mistaken the reason stars used to get through before was they had less time to get to the 40 man roster then now. Still their are some good players, Delino Deshields Jr was selected by Texas last year.

 

[dredeye]

I'm happy with the Barney signing.

 

[Bad News Benning]

Imagine if we somehow got Jose Fernandez.

But we won't. Shapiro doesn't make deals like that.

Seems something AA would be working on though

There is a reason Jose Fernandez hasn't been dealt yet...there are only so many Dave Stewarts in baseball willing to make stupid offers. Marlins want good MLB players and Top prospects.

Jose Fernandez has recently had TJS.. it's something to think about because he could easily go the way of Josh Johnson.

 

[dredeye]

Tigers get Justin Wilson off the yanks
he was a decent 3/4 for their pen

Tigers are quietly having a good off season

 

[Bad News Benning]

Tigers get Justin Wilson off the yanks
he was a decent 3/4 for their pen

What are the Yanks planning to do with their pen? Warren, Wilson, and potentially Miller. Seems like they want to deal everyone out of there.

 

[Longshot]

If I'm not mistaken the reason stars used to get through before was they had less time to get to the 40 man roster then now. Still their are some good players, Delino Deshields Jr was selected by Texas last year.

I'm not sure how the Rule 5 rules have evolved over the years. I do know that George Bell slipped through because the Phillies didn't think anybody would draft him because he had been injured. The Jays happened to have a scout that saw him play and realized he was healthy.

To me, it just seems hopelessly optimistic that the Jays will pick someone in the Rule 5 draft that will help them win the division again next year.

In fact, for a contending team, it can be a hindrance to tie up a roster sport with a Rule 5 guy. In 1993, I remember Cito Gaston being openly critical of Pat Gillick for forcing him to carry Willie Canate on the roster all season when they were trying to repeat.

 

[dredeye]

There is a reason Jose Fernandez hasn't been dealt yet...there are only so many Dave Stewarts in baseball willing to make stupid offers. Marlins want good MLB players and Top prospects.

Jose Fernandez has recently had TJS.. it's something to think about because he could easily go the way of Josh Johnson.

And his teammates seem to have a hate on for him

 

[hoc123]

I'm not sure how the Rule 5 rules have evolved over the years. I do know that George Bell slipped through because the Phillies didn't think anybody would draft him because he had been injured. The Jays happened to have a scout that saw him play and realized he was healthy.

To me, it just seems hopelessly optimistic that the Jays will pick someone in the Rule 5 draft that will help them win the division again next year.

In fact, for a contending team, it can be a hindrance to tie up a roster sport with a Rule 5 guy. In 1993, I remember Cito Gaston being openly critical of Pat Gillick for forcing him to carry Willie Canate on the roster all season when they were trying to repeat.

It is safe to say we won't get anyone good. Typically only one or two players stay the whole year and they are typically near the top of the draft.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Don't Rule 5 guys need to remain on the big league roster?

For the major league phase yes, the minor league phase you don't, I'm not sure what qualifies someone for the minor league phase, it wouldn't be just players not on the 40 man, there must be some other restriction like not playing in full season ball, or at least high A or something, but I'm not sure what it is.

Serious question, who was the last Rule 5 guy to (eventually) make an impact anywhere?

Odubel Herrera with the Phillies last year was a 3.9 fWAR player, above average hitter with a 110 wRC+

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=11476&position=OF