Winnipeg Jets going into the 24/25 season

[Mortimer Snerd]

This stuff doesn't mean much. Similar circumstance with Connor. 47-34-7.

Don't have the numbers but I recall we had a pretty good record without Scheif at one point too. And Pens famous record w/o Sid

Now do without all 3 at the same time.
Of course you can't because there is no sample. But imagine what would happen.

 

[Maukkis]

Your argument seems to be that the team is crap even with Ehlers.
Remember when we all thought we had such good F depth? Can that be only about a month ago?

If you are trying to argue in favour of keeping Ehlers you are assuming he gives the team that option. I can't see that happening. Will the new coach come in and break up KC/Scheif? Will he play Ehlers on the top line and PP1 all season? If he does, will that persuade Ehlers to stay? I suspect no, no and no. So I am resigned to Ehlers being moved. It just becomes a matter of getting the best possible return.

Ehlers is the only piece in the top 6 that actively makes everybody else around him better. Scheifele could be that, but given how he is deployed/how we deploy him/how he wants to be deployed/insert your angle here, the outcome hasn't exactly been stellar. As for our forward depth, I've been skeptical for a long time now. We can be 8-9 scoring forwards deep all we want, but if three of them get fourth line minutes or popcorn, that's three guys wasted.

Our roster decisions will likely be sub-optimal with or without Ehlers. After all, going from zero adjustments and experimentation to actively trying new stuff would be a gigantic leap. But if we lose Ehlers, we lose the only Jet who can turn any struggling line into something functional. Nobody else on the roster does this, period. We lose the ability to make stuff work when needed.

You're among the rational minds on these boards, so I'll ask you this: what return are you going to get for Ehlers that will make up for losing his ability to generate offense? Which individual player has that ability, and how does he balance out trash combinations like Connor and Scheifele?

 

[LowLefty]

Can't argue with that.

At least in the PO, I also think he tries to do too much. Question is why? And how to fix it? He's a pretty smart guy. Why would he be so difficult to coach? Is there a difference in the way he uses his linemates between PO and reg season? Or is it just the tighter play in PO and better competition that makes it seem that way?

Maybe the coaching issue is the same one as it is in the reg season - usage. Maybe putting the fastest guy on the team on a line with 2 of the slowest isn't a good fit.

Coaching isn't just about having the right message, it is about being able to get it through. Are they telling him to make better use of his linemates, and how? Or are they just telling him to play more North/South on the assumption that that will lead to better usage of his linemates? It seems that all we ever hear about is the more N/S part. But of course we aren't at the practice or in the room.

All I know is that Nik is the most talented player the Jets have and they are not getting full value out of him.

This won't go over well but what the hell - it's the off season:

I don't think Ehlers is a smart player - I think he has lived solely off his talent and speed his whole career.
And when you ask him to play system based hockey where you use your line mates and are asked to stick to a plan, he doesn't know how to play that kind of game - and he never has.
You could also assume this is why coaches struggle with him - he's hard to coach. He knows what his bread and butter has been throughout his career and is hesitant (or lacks the ability) to move off that game style.
And he'll have more success with this game plan through the reg season when there is less pressure and more space - but come playoffs, teams really have little difficulty shutting him down.
If you want to talk about talent, Ehlers is one of the best - but he comes up short on hockey IQ - IMO

 

[WolfHouse]

So much focus on ehlers linemates not being able to read him... and no mention of how he dismantled opposing D with the same chaos... then suddenly there's room for his linemates - he will excel with his next team

Jets will also need to address their zone entries next year if ehlers is traded... yup offensive zone giveaways suck but what sucks worse is never gaining the zone

 

[voyageur]

There you go, splitting up KC and Scheifele again. Just not happening. Not required to facilitate your bottom 6 plan. So why bother?
KC Scheifele Vilardi
Xxx Perfetti Nino
Barron Lowry Appelton
Iafallo Lambert/Name Lambert/Name

I think the Jets are going to want somebody in that 4C spot who can win face offs on the PK, if Fez is the best option for 2C...So you have Gus or Kupari probably in that role, but is Kupari a Jet next year? Seems like he found himself in the doghouse.

I like Barron on the checking line I think he's ready for a breakout season.

Maybe KC-Scheif-Lambert top speed
Nino-Fez-Vilardi

And Iafallo-Gus/Kupari-Namestnikov as 4th line. Obviously not static lines, but I think if Lambert is in your lineup you probably want him higher than 4th line. And he should get some competition from the older Chibrikov in TC. Parker Ford is a prospect to watch for a 4th line role imo.

 

[surixon]

This won't go over well but what the hell - it's the off season:

I don't think Ehlers is a smart player - I think he has lived solely off his talent and speed his whole career.
And when you ask him to play system based hockey where you use your line mates and are asked to stick to a plan, he doesn't know how to play that kind of game - and he never has.
You could also assume this is why coaches struggle with him - he's hard to coach. He knows what his bread and butter has been throughout his career and is hesitant (or lacks the ability) to move off that game style.
And he'll have more success with this game plan through the reg season when there is less pressure and more space - but come playoffs, teams really have little difficulty shutting him down.
If you want to talk about talent, Ehlers is one of the best - but he comes up short on hockey IQ - IMO

I actually agree. I think his hockey IQ is his weakest attribute. He's a pure chaotic/volume player that relies on his speed and talent and taking lots of shots. I liken him to Kane but with more raw talent. Hey it works for him, but as I said in another post it clashes with our other offensive players who are all more Cerebral in how they approach generating offense.

 

[WolfHouse]

I think the Jets are going to want somebody in that 4C spot who can win face offs on the PK, if Fez is the best option for 2C...So you have Gus or Kupari probably in that role, but is Kupari a Jet next year? Seems like he found himself in the doghouse.

I like Barron on the checking line I think he's ready for a breakout season.

Maybe KC-Scheif-Lambert top speed
Nino-Fez-Vilardi

And Iafallo-Gus/Kupari-Namestnikov as 4th line. Obviously not static lines, but I think if Lambert is in your lineup you probably want him higher than 4th line. And he should get some competition from the older Chibrikov in TC. Parker Ford is a prospect to watch for a 4th line role imo.

Jets have to find a way to get out of that 2 scoring 1 checking and 1 energy

I'd like to resign monahan - not sure if they're looking at that - but I'd replace monahan with lambert in this lineup if not

Nino-scheif-perfetti
connor-monahan-chibrikov
Barron-lambert-vilardi
Gus-lowry-apples
Names-ajf

Trade iafallo/kupari to utah or a grinding team

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Was funny listening to OB talk about how we can replace his 60 pts with a 35 pt player since we won a bunch of games by 2 goals or less...

Scary part is the lack of meat behind the buy pionk/schmidt out narrative - the media guys know its not happening.. and instead of that we will lose Dillon or trade Ehlers

Right now it looks like we will lose Dillon and DeMelo and trade Ehlers. All of that could change of course.

Connor - Scheifele - Vilardi
Nino - Names - Perfetti
Barron - Lowry - Appleton
AJF - Gus - Iafallo
Kupari

JoMo - Ehlers return
Samberg - Pionk
Schmidt - Heinola
Stanley

Helle
xxx

Maybe Lambert bumps Iafallo.

Does that look like a PO roster?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think the Jets are going to want somebody in that 4C spot who can win face offs on the PK, if Fez is the best option for 2C...So you have Gus or Kupari probably in that role, but is Kupari a Jet next year? Seems like he found himself in the doghouse.

I like Barron on the checking line I think he's ready for a breakout season.

Maybe KC-Scheif-Lambert top speed
Nino-Fez-Vilardi

And Iafallo-Gus/Kupari-Namestnikov as 4th line. Obviously not static lines, but I think if Lambert is in your lineup you probably want him higher than 4th line. And he should get some competition from the older Chibrikov in TC. Parker Ford is a prospect to watch for a 4th line role imo.

Fez?

Yes, I can see Barron up a line.
Kupari is hard to figure. Shows talent but can't produce. I lean towards Gus at 4C

Lambert might be able to play 1RW. I don't like him on the 4th line either but I start him there at first anyway. Might not take long to move up.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

This won't go over well but what the hell - it's the off season:

I don't think Ehlers is a smart player - I think he has lived solely off his talent and speed his whole career.
And when you ask him to play system based hockey where you use your line mates and are asked to stick to a plan, he doesn't know how to play that kind of game - and he never has.
You could also assume this is why coaches struggle with him - he's hard to coach. He knows what his bread and butter has been throughout his career and is hesitant (or lacks the ability) to move off that game style.
And he'll have more success with this game plan through the reg season when there is less pressure and more space - but come playoffs, teams really have little difficulty shutting him down.
If you want to talk about talent, Ehlers is one of the best - but he comes up short on hockey IQ - IMO

Ehlers is a smart guy, maybe very smart. That doesn't necessarily = hockey IQ. I've remarked quite a few times about his inability to score on breakaways/penalty shots. That is a HIQ issue.

So you could be right. I'm not sure. It does check some boxes. Watching him without the puck could yield a clue. Is he in the positions that he should be in, according to the plan? What he does when he has the puck is another story.

Does he have trouble using his linemates? Or do his linemates have trouble using him? Maybe some of each.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Jets have to find a way to get out of that 2 scoring 1 checking and 1 energy

I'd like to resign monahan - not sure if they're looking at that - but I'd replace monahan with lambert in this lineup if not

Nino-scheif-perfetti
connor-monahan-chibrikov
Barron-lambert-vilardi
Gus-lowry-apples
Names-ajf

Trade iafallo/kupari to utah or a grinding team

I like it, but I think it is probably 1 year premature.

 

[LowLefty]

Ehlers is a smart guy, maybe very smart. That doesn't necessarily = hockey IQ. I've remarked quite a few times about his inability to score on breakaways/penalty shots. That is a HIQ issue.

So you could be right. I'm not sure. It does check some boxes. Watching him without the puck could yield a clue. Is he in the positions that he should be in, according to the plan? What he does when he has the puck is another story.

Does he have trouble using his linemates? Or do his linemates have trouble using him? Maybe some of each.

I'm referring strictly to hockey IQ - I have no idea how smart he is otherwise and I wouldn't comment on that if I did

 

[voyageur]

Jets have to find a way to get out of that 2 scoring 1 checking and 1 energy

I'd like to resign monahan - not sure if they're looking at that - but I'd replace monahan with lambert in this lineup if not

Nino-scheif-perfetti
connor-monahan-chibrikov
Barron-lambert-vilardi
Gus-lowry-apples
Names-ajf

Trade iafallo/kupari to utah or a grinding team

I understand that concept but I think as long as Lowry is here he's the 3C. He just wins matchups and that's almost as important as scoring sometimes. Especially if your defensive zone shifts end up in offensive zone changes or faceoffs. Can't say his production was bad in that role. I think he's part of the new Jets identity of good team defense, which definitely sounds boring and could well be, for the near future. Although I think Jets can still get faster next year, even without Ehlers.

I like Monahan. He basically saved the PP last year. I thought the Avs really keyed on his lack of speed to exploit the Jets on their PPs. I also wonder about the dollars and cents. I'd say he's going to be in the same price range as Lindholm, Stephenson, Duchene in the UFA centre market, and there's some teams that need centers. The fact he signed as a UFA with Montreal last year does not make me confident he would re-sign here. The term with him will be interesting. He's had one healthy season in awhile I'm guessing he's looking for a decent term after a breakout year.

 

[surixon]

I think the Jets are going to want somebody in that 4C spot who can win face offs on the PK, if Fez is the best option for 2C...So you have Gus or Kupari probably in that role, but is Kupari a Jet next year? Seems like he found himself in the doghouse.

I like Barron on the checking line I think he's ready for a breakout season.

Maybe KC-Scheif-Lambert top speed
Nino-Fez-Vilardi

And Iafallo-Gus/Kupari-Namestnikov as 4th line. Obviously not static lines, but I think if Lambert is in your lineup you probably want him higher than 4th line. And he should get some competition from the older Chibrikov in TC. Parker Ford is a prospect to watch for a 4th line role

I understand that concept but I think as long as Lowry is here he's the 3C. He just wins matchups and that's almost as important as scoring sometimes. Especially if your defensive zone shifts end up in offensive zone changes or faceoffs. Can't say his production was bad in that role. I think he's part of the new Jets identity of good team defense, which definitely sounds boring and could well be, for the near future. Although I think Jets can still get faster next year, even without Ehlers.

I like Monahan. He basically saved the PP last year. I thought the Avs really keyed on his lack of speed to exploit the Jets on their PPs. I also wonder about the dollars and cents. I'd say he's going to be in the same price range as Lindholm, Stephenson, Duchene in the UFA centre market, and there's some teams that need centers. The fact he signed as a UFA with Montreal last year does not make me confident he would re-sign here. The term with him will be interesting. He's had one healthy season in awhile I'm guessing he's looking for a decent term after a breakout year.

I'd be worried about bringing Sean back for 5 plus years with his lack of speed. He was exposed pretty badly in the playoffs and at his age it likely will only decline further over the next few years. No doubt he'll want to cash in after making next to nothing the past few years.

 

[Flair Hay]

So much focus on ehlers linemates not being able to read him... and no mention of how he dismantled opposing D with the same chaos... then suddenly there's room for his linemates - he will excel with his next team

Jets will also need to address their zone entries next year if ehlers is traded... yup offensive zone giveaways suck but what sucks worse is never gaining the zone

Pretty much sums it up.

The guys has weaknesses that are well known.

I think we may be underestimating what he brings to the team - even when he isn't scoring

What happens if in his 30's his injury troubles and playoff struggles both end up behind him? I do think there is a good chance it can happen.

 

[KingBogo]

There is a similarity, but it breaks down. The feeling last off-season was that Scheif and Helle would not extend because they didn't have faith in the Jets competing for the cup. Chevy managed to convince them otherwise. I believe that in each case one would not sign unless the other did. Thus the timing of them signing identical contracts.

The expectation that Nik won't extend here is very different. Can Chevy convince him that he will be treated and utilized differently under the new coach? Even if he can, is that sufficient now? Or would it be too little, too late? IDK Ehlers' mind of course. I can only look at how he has been treated here and conclude what I would do in his shoes, or skates.

Hope I'm wrong. I hope you are correct. 'Fly' is the one Jets player opposing teams need to prepare for. Generic game plans work for everyone else.

I've never bought the narrative that Ehlers has been treated unfairly by the Jets and he is one of my favourite players. Hell I have a game worn, signed Ehlers jersey hanging on my home office wall. While he is a great possession player, he is creeping into the back half of his prime and has never hit 30 goals or 65 points. And I've been working hard to avoid conversations on his yearly disappearing act in the playoffs. Those that believe he is a top 10 or even a top 20 winger in the NHL are delusional. No GM will consider him as such. If the Jets pony up something fair I think he jumps at it. I will say 7 X $7.5 gets it done.

 

[Eyeseeing]

One of them has proven they can do it before though. The other has never done it.

Which one ?
Helle was awful against Vegas in the WCF

 

[tbcwpg]

Which one ?
Helle was awful against Vegas in the WCF

Helle single handedly won the series against Edmonton in 2021. Well, him and an Edmonton goaltending collapse.

Also, what are we defining as awful?

 

[Daximus]

Which one ?
Helle was awful against Vegas in the WCF

We just going to forget about the two series before that?

 

[Eyeseeing]

Helle single handedly won the series against Edmonton in 2021. Well, him and an Edmonton goaltending collapse.

Also, what are we defining as awful?

We beat them but check the actual time we lead in the series you’ll be shocked.
Edmonton choked, Helle did not shine

 

[tbcwpg]

We beat them but check the actual time we lead in the series you’ll be shocked.
Edmonton choked, Helle did not shine

Helle kept them in the game every time. Lots of revisionist history here.

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

We beat them but check the actual time we lead in the series you’ll be shocked.
Edmonton choked, Helle did not shine

It's hard to think that a goalie didn't shine, when he only gave up 8 goals in 300 minutes.

 

[surixon]

It's hard to think that a goalie didn't shine, when he only gave up 8 goals in 299 minutes in a 4 game sweep.

View attachment 873669

No kidding. He was brilliant that series.

He was also excellent 17-18. Just ran into someone better in MAF.

The last two series though he hasn't been close to his best. We need more from him moving forward.

 

[Orrrules]

Jet forwards who are built for the playoffs

Lowry
Nino
Apples
Barron
Names

 

[Jets 31]

No kidding. He was brilliant that series.

He was also excellent 17-18. Just ran into someone better in MAF.

The last two series though he hasn't been close to his best. We need more from him moving forward.

Totally agree, Helly has had a couple of really good playoff series over the years but i expect more from probably a 2 time Vezina winner when it really matters in the playoffs.