Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

[Adam da bomb]

Its just so weird how one camp frames all critique of stan as 'fans that dont like him'

You look at things this season - yes stan has improved and thats great - but all the things he does - hard shot, pk, body checking - miller performs better and yet hes not on our main pk

We are now calling stan a success because he has become mark stuart... instead of sergei bautin

Not just about a hard shot. Stan gets his shot through on net and not into the players shin pads more.
I’ve seen better break out passes from Stan.
I’ve never

 

[WolfHouse]

Not just about a hard shot. Stan gets his shot through on net and not into the players shin pads more.
I’ve seen better break out passes from Stan.
I’ve never

Miller has one of the hardest shots in the league and hes accurate - stans shot does not always get through...

 

[voyageur]

Its just so weird how one camp frames all critique of stan as 'fans that dont like him'

You look at things this season - yes stan has improved and thats great - but all the things he does - hard shot, pk, body checking - miller performs better and yet hes not on our main pk

We are now calling stan a success because he has become mark stuart... instead of sergei bautin

I think Miller's use on the PK has more to do with handedness. De Melo and Pionk have been healthy all year. I can't say it's science but there is something about playing your strong side on the PK that seems to have some teeth.

Stuart might actually be a good comparison for Stan. He was a +1 defenseman in his only playoff appearance, better than any other. But PK was lacking.

I think you have to be a chain smoker to be in the same category as Bautin. That's old time hockey.

Worked for Ducky, Bossy, Lafleur, Larmer and many others. Bautin not so much.

 

[KingBogo]

Going to need him against L.A and Colorado.

Probably rushed a little more because of standings and opponents, combined with Miller injury.

But you read that Athletic article you can tell he and Pionk are tough hockey players.

Why do you think Samberg was rushed? The way are medical system works in Manitoba, is while the team contracts with doctors, the doctors first priority is to the patient (player) not the team. A doctor will clear a player in consultation with that player when they believe they are physically ready to play. The team has no input. While I don't know about every organization, the doctors contracted with by the Jets are some of the top physicians in Manitoba, and they would adhere very strictly to the ethical guidelines of the Manitoba College of Physicians and Surgeons.

 

[voyageur]

Why do you think Samberg was rushed? The way are medical system works in Manitoba, is while the team contracts with doctors, the doctors first priority is to the patient (player) not the team. A doctor will clear a player in consultation with that player when they believe they are physically ready to play. The team has no input. While I don't know about every organization, the doctors contracted with by the Jets are some of the top physicians in Manitoba, and they would adhere very strictly to the ethical guidelines of the Manitoba College of Physicians and Surgeons.

Arniel kind of hinted that he would need some time, in one of his interviews. He was on the ice 8 days ago in non contact.

I think a lot of the medicals guidelines go out the door when you are playing hockey.
I'm sure drilling holes in Neal Pionk's skate like the athletic staff did to help him get through the pain and swelling of a broken foot is not in any medical practice journal.

Once you are medically cleared to skate, I'm not sure what guidelines there are that prevent a player from returning. It's coach and player decision from there. And it's really about can you manage the pain, and can you move well enough to sustain 20 minutes of ice time? I'm sure he'll wear some extra protection to prevent it from happening again Hopefully he still kills penalties the same way he did before his injury.

 

[LowLefty]

Its just so weird how one camp frames all critique of stan as 'fans that dont like him'

Yeah, that is weird
It's also so weird that some posters will bash the guy over and over again, in multiple threads, with the same message, again and again - almost as if they don't like the player.

 

[KingBogo]

Arniel kind of hinted that he would need some time, in one of his interviews. He was on the ice 8 days ago in non contact.

I think a lot of the medicals guidelines go out the door when you are playing hockey.
I'm sure drilling holes in Neal Pionk's skate like the athletic staff did to help him get through the pain and swelling of a broken foot is not in any medical practice journal.

Once you are medically cleared to skate, I'm not sure what guidelines there are that prevent a player from returning. It's coach and player decision from there. And it's really about can you manage the pain, and can you move well enough to sustain 20 minutes of ice time? I'm sure he'll wear some extra protection to prevent it from happening again Hopefully he still kills penalties the same way he did before his injury.

Maybe in the States they go out the door, but not so in Canada. Very different systems, the work the Jets doctors do for the team is only a small part of their careers. Dr. MacDonald their Medical Director is an extremely prominent and influential Physician in Manitoba, his work with the Jets is only a small part of his career.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Sure, I agree.

I'm all for evolving opinion, or stances. Where's the personal growth if you don't question yourself, and be open to difference of opinion?

I'm talking about people who constantly change their opinions faster than the wind changes direction. You can't evolve moment by moment. A person posts one thing in a thread, and moments later, in a separate thread, completely contradicts what they had just said. And does this repeatedly.

I don't equate you with a person that's acting like they're in perpetual free-agency, getting all of the perks, but never committing to anything.

Ok. I don't know who you have in mind and I think I prefer it that way.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I wrote out a whole long thing which got deleted when i had to refresh screen.

I think Heinola needs a lot of games to reach that potential. Team is not interested in giving him those games. They are more interested in winning now. As things stand Heinola just has potential and in my mind is weaker than the 4 defensively. The other 4 includes Cog.

We say old dogs can't learn new tricks. Kc learnt to play D.
Stan learnt to stop taking so many penalties. I have seen more offense out of Stan than I have from Heinola. He set up Villardi's goal. He came down and hit a cross bar. What offense have we seen from Heinola.
I think ive seen more of what Heinola is supposed to bring from Stan than what Stan does from Heinola. We haven't seen this offense from Stan in the past. New wrinkle.

I agree that Jets aren't meeting Heinola's development needs and might never. He may be the next good Dman to need another team to be good on. Not sure about the other 4. Stan, Fleury, Coghlan and ??? Heini has been doing pretty well defensively in a small sample so far.

Yes, Connor has learned to play better, really in all 3 zones. I don't know what makes you think Stan has learned to stop taking so many penalties. His height works against him there. He is going to draw some penalties just because he is so tall. Stan has always shown occasional flashes of good O, even if just his point shot. You are going to need to wait to see offense from Heinola. He is working on D right now.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Lets put it this way.... im 'pretty sure' that we reunite samberg-pionk but not 100% that arniel doesnt keep stan up there... thats the main issue i have with stan - its the irrational amount of chances he gets for the payoff. Someone in the org wagered their career on that pick for sure...

Now if you say anything negative ie. True about stan you are portrayed as being in the heinola camp.... its been a strange evolution

I've never been all that high on Heinola, just hopeful. I do want to see him given a good shot. I would prefer 10-20 games straight, but the rotation might be working for him. He has been OK the last couple of games he has played RD. That shows progress.

I recognize Stans good points but I think the results of another PO series against a team like Avs last year will have the same result. I wouldn't mind too much if he was in the PB but I still don't like him as a regular. I think we need someone better at 3LD. Not saying that is Heinola.

 

[DRW204]

Stanley has been playing better than Heinola as of late. Once Samberg gets back Its likely a rotational third pair.

I don't have a great read on Fleury on the third pair. But, I anticipate the Jets making a lower end acquisition for third pair d. I don't think you want either of Stanley or heinola on your playoff roster, although Stanley scored against Price twice in a game!!

 

[LowLefty]

Stanley has been playing better than Heinola as of late. Once Samberg gets back Its likely a rotational third pair.

Yes, he has
More importantly is that he is improving.
If he continues to improve (and stay healthy), he has a good shot at the 6th spot.
Could we do better? Yes - but I don't think they will be looking for a 6D - more likely they go for a guy that will push Demelo down - and those guys are hard to come by.
IMO, Demelo playing top pair minutes would be my biggest concern - and that's not saying he is bad, but he is not top pair.
A move like that would be impactful -

 

[voyageur]

Stanley has been playing better than Heinola as of late. Once Samberg gets back Its likely a rotational third pair.

I don't have a great read on Fleury on the third pair. But, I anticipate the Jets making a lower end acquisition for third pair d. I don't think you want either of Stanley or heinola on your playoff roster, although Stanley scored against Price twice in a game!!

I guess people already forgot that he and Poolman and Jordie Benn held their own out there. Dubois did not. Wheeler neither.

Even last year Samberg can't make a clean pass, and Schmidt can't cover the front of the net but Stan's our "man," took penalties, scapegoat.

I think the Jets add depth that can fill either side, but it is possible Stan can be the scapegoat again.

 

[WolfHouse]

I've never been all that high on Heinola, just hopeful. I do want to see him given a good shot. I would prefer 10-20 games straight, but the rotation might be working for him. He has been OK the last couple of games he has played RD. That shows progress.

I recognize Stans good points but I think the results of another PO series against a team like Avs last year will have the same result. I wouldn't mind too much if he was in the PB but I still don't like him as a regular. I think we need someone better at 3LD. Not saying that is Heinola.

I agree that neither stan or heinola are legit solutions for a playoff run

I guess people already forgot that he and Poolman and Jordie Benn held their own out there. Dubois did not. Wheeler neither.

Even last year Samberg can't make a clean pass,to and Schmidt can't cover the front of the net but Stan's our "man," took penalties, scapegoat.

I think the Jets add depth that can fill either side, but it is possible Stan can be the scapegoat again.

To suggest that somehow stan was better than schmidt or samberg last year is off the charts insane 'stanatic' behaviour

 

[Adam da bomb]

I agree that Jets aren't meeting Heinola's development needs and might never. He may be the next good Dman to need another team to be good on. Not sure about the other 4. Stan, Fleury, Coghlan and ??? Heini has been doing pretty well defensively in a small sample so far.

Yes, Connor has learned to play better, really in all 3 zones. I don't know what makes you think Stan has learned to stop taking so many penalties. His height works against him there. He is going to draw some penalties just because he is so tall. Stan has always shown occasional flashes of good O, even if just his point shot. You are going to need to wait to see offense from Heinola. He is working on D right now.

Small sample, but, last game it was Heiny’s guy who he didn’t slow down at all who walked around him and got the goal. I am not sure I see the improved d, but, that could be because I don’t know what to watch for.
We agree team isn’t meeting his needs. He has the potential and if he had already reached it, he is ahead of Stan, but, this version of Stan vs this version of Heiny Stan is ahead.


I know Stan has gone 4 games in a row without taking a single penalty. Chara was a big physical D who played in the last 10 yrs who didn’t get called for that many penalties.

Stan is slow, but, as long as he keeps it on the outside.

I need to be patient with Heini, but, don’t think the team will choose to be. He may be the next great D who goes who we will forever hear how Stan cost us another one.

It could also just be wishful thinking bout Stan as we both know how ever anyone feels bout him he is going to play.

 

[WolfHouse]

Small sample, but, last game it was Heiny’s guy who he didn’t slow down at all who walked around him and got the goal. I am not sure I see the improved d, but, that could be because I don’t know what to watch for.
We agree team isn’t meeting his needs. He has the potential and if he had already reached it, he is ahead of Stan, but, this version of Stan vs this version of Heiny Stan is ahead.


I know Stan has gone 4 games in a row without taking a single penalty. Chara was a big physical D who played in the last 10 yrs who didn’t get called for that many penalties.

Stan is slow, but, as long as he keeps it on the outside.

I need to be patient with Heini, but, don’t think the team will choose to be. He may be the next great D who goes who we will forever hear how Stan cost us another one.

It could also just be wishful thinking bout Stan as we both know how ever anyone feels bout him he is going to play.

I mean agreed about heinola but stan also turned our pk into a shooting gallery

They both kind of suck.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I mean agreed about heinola but stan also turned our pk into a shooting gallery

They both kind of suck.

Okay then they both suck, but I don’t think they have an equal degree of suck. I still take Stan over heiny. I am also okay with Fleury over Stan.

Another shooting gallery Stan not on.

 

[Crocket]

With Morrissey injured, not sure on severity. It's time to maybe either take a chance or trade for a depth defender. We still need that RD, assuming Josh is temporarily out.

Should Elias have a chance in for Coghlan, just to see? Or let Cog run with it. Move Ville up with DeMelo as the 2nd pair, behind Samberg Pionk as the first pair while Josh is out?

Elias might still be injured. Which leaves Bauer as the next guy up. He's been great lately.

Okay then they both suck, but I don’t think they have an equal degree of suck. I still take Stan over heiny. I am also okay with Fleury over Stan.

Another shooting gallery Stan not on.

Heinola is far better than Stan, not even close. His passing and IQ are superior, he just needs to get his skating back, and adjust. Takes time. Stan has had all the time in the world

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I agree that neither stan or heinola are legit solutions for a playoff run


To suggest that somehow stan was better than schmidt or samberg last year is off the charts insane 'stanatic' behaviour

Heinola still might be. He played very well last night with Coghlan. Speaking of Coghlan, he has been a pleasant surprise so far.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Small sample, but, last game it was Heiny’s guy who he didn’t slow down at all who walked around him and got the goal. I am not sure I see the improved d, but, that could be because I don’t know what to watch for.
We agree team isn’t meeting his needs. He has the potential and if he had already reached it, he is ahead of Stan, but, this version of Stan vs this version of Heiny Stan is ahead.


I know Stan has gone 4 games in a row without taking a single penalty. Chara was a big physical D who played in the last 10 yrs who didn’t get called for that many penalties.

Stan is slow, but, as long as he keeps it on the outside.

I need to be patient with Heini, but, don’t think the team will choose to be. He may be the next great D who goes who we will forever hear how Stan cost us another one.

It could also just be wishful thinking bout Stan as we both know how ever anyone feels bout him he is going to play.

Heinola played very well last night. He began to show some of the offensive potential we knew he had while still being solid defensively. He is not there yet, but he is moving in the right direction. Meanwhile, Stan had a terrible game. All of his flaws were on display.

 

[Jet]

Heinola is far better than Stan, not even close. His passing and IQ are superior, he just needs to get his skating back, and adjust. Takes time. Stan has had all the time in the world

You really think Heinola passes better than Stan? Like in the NHL?

He might be capable of it but I sure as hell haven't seen it consistently, yet.

 

[MardyBum]

Hopefully Samberg is back Friday to bring Pionk back to a top 4 level if Mo is out for even a small period of time.

Demelo was having a rough go earlier in the year too. Morrissey and Samberg have been clearly the best two D this year.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Heinola played very well last night. He began to show some of the offensive potential we knew he had while still being solid defensively. He is not there yet, but he is moving in the right direction. Meanwhile, Stan had a terrible game. All of his flaws were on display.

Heinola had a great game last night. I was impressed. He got himself into lots of good positions. His shot wasn’t there.
Also weird bout his assist. He had many nice plays, but, the one he got a point for looked like Schief stole puck back before finding kc in slot.
Stan was pretty bad. I thought he looked good in 1st period, minus his huge mistake, but, rest of game he kept making mistakes like 2nd goal, then getting beat and taking a bad penalty.