Player Discussion: Winnipeg Jets Defense

[Adam da bomb]

I don't think he's going anywhere. The Jets are just building up his confidence this year It's been Ville's best year to date, but the Detroit game Ville wasn't as effective as Stan, who nearly popped one in bar down on the rush. Who had a 3 game point streak last week, including against Colorado, who you would think would be the team that over matches him.

Nashville was not an inspired team last night. They got enough PPs to make the game close, but the Jets were the better team, in spite of Stanley's game, which was not confident in any way.

As I said before about Heinola, his real test comes if there is an injury to the top 2 defensemen because none of the defensemen on the roster, except maybe a more veteran Coghlan, have the instincts Ville do offensively, or can effectively run a PP. But Heinola also got a chance to show he could kill penalties last night, maybe not against a team that was hungry, or dialed in, but still it's part of the progression. Arniel was effusive about him and Coghlan. With the way the injuries are going there's going to be some opportunities and for those guys who aren't in the top 4, a lot of it is about establishing some chemistry, and filling roles. Samberg coming back automatically knocks Stanley off the top PK, so there should be a healthy competition until the trade deadline for some roles. One thing is certain, Josh Morrissey needs to stay healthy, and that probably means keeping him out of shot blocking situations as much as possible.

I also think unless it’s an in game injury like last night they bring in an outsider to run pp.

 

[Crocket]

Heinola had a great game last night. I was impressed. He got himself into lots of good positions. His shot wasn’t there.
Also weird bout his assist. He had many nice plays, but, the one he got a point for looked like Schief stole puck back before finding kc in slot.
Stan was pretty bad. I thought he looked good in 1st period, minus his huge mistake, but, rest of game he kept making mistakes like 2nd goal, then getting beat and taking a bad penalty.


Stan has had all the time in the world. He has taken forever to end up as a bottom 6 player. Take away all that history, however, and I think Stan has been the better passer.
Heinola might get there if given enough games, but, team isn’t willing to give him enough games for him to reach potential. He is going to be the next great one who got away.

Even at the AHL level Stan really struggled with that exit pass. His hockey IQ isn't quite there. VH on the other hand has had his zone exits lead to goals, 2 last night 1 with the assist, and many other times, not getting the assist but getting the puck up leading to a goal.

There is really nothing to say about Stan.

You really think Heinola passes better than Stan? Like in the NHL?

He might be capable of it but I sure as hell haven't seen it consistently, yet.

Even just last night, if it wasn't obvious before who the better payer was. Imagine if Stan could pass at all, he'd be an NHL defenseman

 

[Jet]

Even at the AHL level Stan really struggled with that exit pass. His hockey IQ isn't quite there. VH on the other hand has had his zone exits lead to goals, 2 last night 1 with the assist, and many other times, not getting the assist but getting the puck up leading to a goal.

There is really nothing to say about Stan.


Even just last night, if it wasn't obvious before who the better payer was. Imagine if Stan could pass at all, he'd be an NHL defenseman

Enjoy living in bizarro world

 

[Crocket]

Enjoy living in bizarro world

You got it

 

[MardyBum]

I also think unless it’s an in game injury like last night they bring in an outsider to run pp.

If Morrissey is out next game the clear solution should be Pionk to PP1 and Heinola to PP2.

 

[Gm0ney]

Just give Heinola some rope and see if he can put together some consistently decent play. 10 or so consecutive games on his natural side with a competent partner. He's had a few in a row now and he and Coughlin were good together last night. Run with that for a bit.

 

[Jet]

You got it

View attachment 958235

Ahhhh pulling out stats from before - when I was criticizing him too.

Nice play.

I guess I am just able to reassess things and not live in the past.

Let's not even get into the issues with statistics like this.

 

[MardyBum]

Enjoy living in bizarro world

Fwiw, just this year.



When it's in the ozone is where Stanley's puck skills can shine(imo), or when he's not being pressured in the dzone.

 

[Gm0ney]

If Morrissey is out next game the clear solution should be Pionk to PP1 and Heinola to PP2.

That screws up the handedness on both units. Try Heinola on PP1 and leave Pionk on the 2nd unit (but I suspect the coaches wouldn't be down with that).

 

[MardyBum]

That screws up the handedness on both units. Try Heinola on PP1 and leave Pionk on the 2nd unit (but I suspect the coaches wouldn't be down with that).

Yeah there's no shot .

Pionk to #1 is the easy guess. Heinola on the PP makes the most sense out of everyone else healthy.

 

[DRW204]

when healthy, stanley will go back to a spot that's better suited for him as a 6-7D. he has had a solid stretch of games as of late, and a fine first 2 periods last night, but the 3rd was not good at all. with morrissey out, he was thrust into a role clearly above his head.

heinola had his best game of the season last night. made things happen on offense, no terrible defensive plays either. similar to stanley's stretch of games though, the opposition as of late including last night haven't been great, but deserves props.

seems like samberg will be back soon & morrissey isn't a long-term injury. with miller out, id like to see coghlan stick at 3rd. he's been solid in his gp. and im fine w/ the Jets icing whoever the better of the 3 atm is b/w heinola, stanley or fleury.

 

[Shlep]

Fwiw, just this year.



When it's in the ozone is where Stanley's puck skills can shine(imo), or when he's not being pressured in the dzone.

Even when he's not being pressured in the d zone he'll often just rim the puck around the boards to the other team, we saw that yesterday on the first goal against, should have been an easy dump for Stanley.

He definitely had a decent stretch prior to last night, but he's going to have to string together more than a few good games in a row here and there before being considered a viable top 6 option.

Heinola having the 2nd best controlled exits on the team is a little surprising, but a nice surprise. Stanley having the worst isn't a surprise at all.

 

[Bob E]

Fwiw, just this year.



When it's in the ozone is where Stanley's puck skills can shine(imo), or when he's not being pressured in the dzone.

Those stats very much match the eye test as well.

It's for that reason the Jets need an upgrade to both Pionk (RHD in top 4) and Stanley (LHD in bottom pair) if they truly want to go far in the playoffs. Their lack of mobility and poor decision making under pressure really hurts against better competition.

Salomonsson should help in the future, but I'd like to see Chevy be bold and make a move for two dmen before or at the TD. Salo and Freij would be the only two young dmen I would not move in trade. Pionk (pending UFA), Stan and Heinola can all be moved if that would help facilitate a move for two new solid players. And they would still have Morrissey, DeMelo, Samberg, and Miller (with Fleury and Coghlan in PB) in addition to the two new dmen. That's a nice group of eight NHL dmen that can skate and move the puck for the playoffs.

After moving Stan, the Jets would be better off grabbing a pending UFA like Olivier from CBJ for the 4th line if they want a team protector/fighter (somewhat Stan's role right now) in the lineup for the playoffs. Who knows, maybe they can sign him to an extension, he's still a young player.

 

[voyageur]

Those stats very much match the eye test as well.

It's for that reason the Jets need an upgrade to both Pionk (RHD in top 4) and Stanley (LHD in bottom pair) if they truly want to go far in the playoffs. Their lack of mobility and poor decision making under pressure really hurts against better competition.

Salomonsson should help in the future, but I'd like to see Chevy be bold and make a move for two dmen before or at the TD. Salo and Freij would be the only two young dmen I would not move in trade. Pionk (pending UFA), Stan and Heinola can all be moved if that would help facilitate a move for two new solid players. And they would still have Morrissey, DeMelo, Samberg, and Miller (with Fleury and Coghlan in PB) in addition to the two new dmen. That's a nice group of eight NHL dmen that can skate and move the puck for the playoffs.

After moving Stan, the Jets would be better off grabbing a pending UFA like Olivier from CBJ for the 4th line if they want a team protector/fighter (somewhat Stan's role right now) in the lineup for the playoffs. Who knows, maybe they can sign him to an extension, he's still a young player.

Right now you have a couple of Hall of Fame defensemen and some 4 Nations All Stars ahead of Pionk in scoring, all of whom except Chycrun play 1st PP. And he's going to get some rest with the tournament, which bodes well. I'm sure Arniel is trying to get Samberg and Pionk back to where they were at the start of the undefeated string to begin the year. If Pionk falls off the cliff then there is some explaining to do, but he's not at the point of being demoted, I'm pretty sure of that.

Forward goons who can't skate or contribute take away from the rythym of attack, and if you want good PKers out of your 4th line, probably want the better skaters in there. Stanley going in the box gives Josh some double shifts if he takes someone off the ice with him. It's when he takes himself off the ice that the ice time for the d-men but also the scoring forwards gets affected. And I noticed Connor had nothing to say to him when they met in the penalty box. Sometimes you don't have to say anything for the message to be received.

 

[Mud Turtle]

You got it

View attachment 958235

Oh, that’s really awful actually.

 

[DRW204]

Those stats very much match the eye test as well.

It's for that reason the Jets need an upgrade to both Pionk (RHD in top 4) and Stanley (LHD in bottom pair) if they truly want to go far in the playoffs. Their lack of mobility and poor decision making under pressure really hurts against better competition.

Salomonsson should help in the future, but I'd like to see Chevy be bold and make a move for two dmen before or at the TD. Salo and Freij would be the only two young dmen I would not move in trade. Pionk (pending UFA), Stan and Heinola can all be moved if that would help facilitate a move for two new solid players. And they would still have Morrissey, DeMelo, Samberg, and Miller (with Fleury and Coghlan in PB) in addition to the two new dmen. That's a nice group of eight NHL dmen that can skate and move the puck for the playoffs.

After moving Stan, the Jets would be better off grabbing a pending UFA like Olivier from CBJ for the 4th line if they want a team protector/fighter (somewhat Stan's role right now) in the lineup for the playoffs. Who knows, maybe they can sign him to an extension, he's still a young player.

When Samberg comes back that'll stabilize the 2nd pairing again. Were you expecting similar level of play with Fleury or Stanley substituted in? There's a huge drop off from Samberg to those 2 player's level and Pionk isn't a Norris caliber guy capable of carrying parrying i think.

actually, with Stanley the pairing rates similar in xGA/60 to Samberg-Pionk. the xGF/60 (chances for) is lacking, which can sometimes be attributed to moreso a Fwd problem.

 

[Buffdog]

Fwiw, just this year.



When it's in the ozone is where Stanley's puck skills can shine(imo), or when he's not being pressured in the dzone.

Who accumulates that data? Is it Garret himself?

 

[Shlep]

Who accumulates that data? Is it Garret himself?

I wonder where this question is going.

 

[Buffdog]

I wonder where this question is going.

Bias isn't always a conscious thing. But if the guy who is collecting it has been anti-Stanley since before he was drafted, then it should probably be reviewed for objectivity

There's a reason for peer review in science

 

[Shlep]

Bias isn't always a conscious thing. But if the guy who is collecting it has been anti-Stanley since before he was drafted, then it should probably be reviewed for objectivity

There's a reason for peer review in science

I'm sure the professional statistician has no understanding of confirmation bias.

 

[Buffdog]

I'm sure the professional statistician has no understanding of confirmation bias.

Like I said, it's not always conscious. And we're all guilty of it

If he's serious about his craft, he'd insist on it

The fact that you pointed out "professional" is important. He gets paid the more right he is, which means that it pays for him for Stan to look bad

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think the Jets meds to make room for Salo next season. Goodbye Pionk?

That sounds like a great discussion for the thread on our defence

Please god post it there to distract them from Stanley

Those 2 posts are from the Moose thread. This is my reply to the first one. Putting it here is my reply to the second.

I think (hope?) Salo will be ready next season. He was not all that far off in TC and hadn't had any time to adjust to NA ice yet. He hit the ground running with the Moose so I am fairly confident. I wouldn't bet the farm on it though. He may need more time.

He plays right side so discussion need not mention 3LD. Go!

 

[MyNameIsTaken]

Those 2 posts are from the Moose thread. This is my reply to the first one. Putting it here is my reply to the second.

I think (hope?) Salo will be ready next season. He was not all that far off in TC and hadn't had any time to adjust to NA ice yet. He hit the ground running with the Moose so I am fairly confident. I wouldn't bet the farm on it though. He may need more time.

He plays right side so discussion need not mention 3LD. Go!

I feel like the Jets have had the tendency to want their D breaking into the NHL first as an injury replacement with spot time as opposed to as a rookie in the season opener, so I am not too worried about keeping Pionk causing a logjam (may or may not keep Pionk anyways, but thats a whole nother thing!)

Maybe he’s ready though! I would be extremely excited to see him in the lineup at the beginning of next season.

 

[MardyBum]

Who accumulates that data? Is it Garret himself?

Assume he's manually tracking it. If you'd like to do so and prove your positive Stanley bias it'd be interesting to see how it goes the rest of the year vs his.

 

[Buffdog]

Assume he's manually tracking it. If you'd like to do so and prove your positive Stanley bias it'd be interesting to see how it goes the rest of the year vs his.

I'm neutral on Stanley. I dont give a f*** if he's good or not

He's 4th on my LHD depth chart behind JoMo, Snerg and Fleury

Zone exits aside... other stats paint him in a more favorable light vs the rest of Jets defenders at 5v5. How often does Garrett post about those stats?