OT: Winnipeg ICE sold - Moving to Wenatchee, Washington renamed Wenatchee Wild

[superdeluxe]

Hope you guys are able to kee your team!

 

[jetsmooseice]

Hope you guys are able to kee your team!

Thanks, me too!

Good luck in the Memorial Cup!

 

[jetsmooseice]

Savoie makes his pro debut tonight!

 

[jetsmooseice]

On the heels of Owen Pederson getting picked up by the Providence Bruins, Connor McClennon is also AHL bound, but to the Wolves. Only Ben Zloty remains unspoken for among last season's overagers.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Well, it's June and the ICE haven't announced their departure

 

[Guardian17]

Well, it's June and the ICE haven't announced their departure

They desperately need a new building to play in.

They also need to hire a new marketing department.

 

[jetsmooseice]

They desperately need a new building to play in.

They also need to hire a new marketing department.

Yeah, even if the team's not leaving town yet, it has to be reaching a breaking point soon. I would imagine the owners would only care to stomach so much in losses before they become ready to cut bait and move on.

Personally I like Wayne Fleming Arena and I would happily keep going there indefinitely, but I realize the sports business doesn't work that way. They need the kind of money they just can't make in that building. But it doesn't feel like Winnipeg and area is any closer to a new WHL-suitable arena than it was in 2019.

 

[Guardian17]

Yeah, even if the team's not leaving town yet, it has to be reaching a breaking point soon. I would imagine the owners would only care to stomach so much in losses before they become ready to cut bait and move on.

Personally I like Wayne Fleming Arena and I would happily keep going there indefinitely, but I realize the sports business doesn't work that way. They need the kind of money they just can't make in that building. But it doesn't feel like Winnipeg and area is any closer to a new WHL-suitable arena than it was in 2019.

I've heard speculation on a Jets Facebook page that True North can block the construction of any hockey / entertainment center within city limits.

Has anyone else heard this?

 

[jetsmooseice]

I've heard speculation on a Jets Facebook page that True North can block the construction of any hockey / entertainment center within city limits.

Has anyone else heard this?

Not quite, TNSE just has a monopoly on publicly subsidized arenas within city limits. The idea was to reduce the risk that someone would roll into town and compete with MTS Centre. What I don't recall is exactly how that limit works, i.e. is it only applicable to City of Winnipeg subsidies? Or what if a university or First Nation is involved?

Zero limits on someone building a new arena with their own money.

 

[lanky]

That probably explains why the original build site was across the road from the city limit.

UofM and Naawi-Oodena are obviously better locations if that could work as a loophole.

It seems like in sports these days arena development involves two or three of the following
-tax breaks
-public investment
-real estate development

I'm sure 50 Below could afford to fully fund an arena in Winnipeg, but they only have one chance to cash in on a plan involving those other things. I hope it happens and I hope it doesn't involve public investment.

 

[Al Camino]

That probably explains why the original build site was across the road from the city limit.

UofM and Naawi-Oodena are obviously better locations if that could work as a loophole.

It seems like in sports these days arena development involves two or three of the following
-tax breaks
-public investment
-real estate development

I'm sure 50 Below could afford to fully fund an arena in Winnipeg, but they only have one chance to cash in on a plan involving those other things. I hope it happens and I hope it doesn't involve public investment.

It would depend on the cost I guess. I know they seem to have deep pockets but an arena that seats 4,500 - 5,500 won't be cheap. Outside of Bedard coming to town getting tickets to an 1800 seat venue hasn't been much of an issue. I'm not sure if it's the market or marketing but unless the Moose leave town I don't see the ICE in Winnipeg much longer. Both are weekend leagues and draw from the same demographic. I think that TSNE would be happy to relocate the Moose a few hours away to Fargo or something like that. The only reason they are in Winnipeg is because funding for an arena in Thunder Bay fell through.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

It would depend on the cost I guess. I know they seem to have deep pockets but an arena that seats 4,500 - 5,500 won't be cheap. Outside of Bedard coming to town getting tickets to an 1800 seat venue hasn't been much of an issue. I'm not sure if it's the market or marketing but unless the Moose leave town I don't see the ICE in Winnipeg much longer. Both are weekend leagues and draw from the same demographic. I think that TSNE would be happy to relocate the Moose a few hours away to Fargo or something like that. The only reason they are in Winnipeg is because funding for an arena in Thunder Bay fell through.

A 5000-ish seat arena would be better for the Moose, Ice, Sea Bears, smaller concerts. True North should build it and focus on big events for the CLC. Added bonus: it really devalues all those "all events included" seats they've started selling and that sort of thing is right up True North's alley.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Former Winnipeg journo Gregg Drinnan has the latest ICE rumours out of Chilliwack.

I know nothing but there’s hot buzz about the Ice . . . Rockets get Iginla from T-Birds . . . Remparts trade three from championship roster

Let me guess? You are wondering: What’s the latest on the Winnipeg Ice situation? Well, I really don’t know anything, but a spy in Chilliwack tells me that he has heard that the “Aquilinis are work…

greggdrinnan.com

He implies that a deal could get done for this fall! Which I find hard to believe given that the ICE and the Chilliwack Chiefs, who stand to get displaced by all this, are basically a few months away from training camp and preseason games. And for Aquilini, buying a team and an arena, and moving two teams are not something that happens overnight... at least not ideally.

So while there could be some substance to this Chilliwack talk, I have a very hard time believing that the move will be made imminently.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

Former Winnipeg journo Gregg Drinnan has the latest ICE rumours out of Chilliwack.

I know nothing but there’s hot buzz about the Ice . . . Rockets get Iginla from T-Birds . . . Remparts trade three from championship roster

Let me guess? You are wondering: What’s the latest on the Winnipeg Ice situation? Well, I really don’t know anything, but a spy in Chilliwack tells me that he has heard that the “Aquilinis are work…

greggdrinnan.com

He implies that a deal could get done for this fall! Which I find hard to believe given that the ICE and the Chilliwack Chiefs, who stand to get displaced by all this, are basically a few months away from training camp and preseason games. And for Aquilini, buying a team and an arena, and moving two teams are not something that happens overnight... at least not ideally.

So while there could be some substance to this Chilliwack talk, I have a very hard time believing that the move will be made imminently.

Well, if Aquilini can get the ICE into Chilliwack for the coming season, that would certainly fall into the category of money talking and bullshit walking.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Well, if Aquilini can get the ICE into Chilliwack for the coming season, that would certainly fall into the category of money talking and bullshit walking.

We're 12 weeks away from training camps opening. Not even 3 months. I guess if you have the money and inclination you could buy the Chilliwack Arena and move the ICE and Chiefs. But why? Doing it a year later would likely lead to a much smoother transition on all fronts.

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

We're 12 weeks away from training camps opening. Not even 3 months. I guess if you have the money and inclination you could buy the Chilliwack Arena and move the ICE and Chiefs. But why? Doing it a year later would likely lead to a much smoother transition on all fronts.

Sending a message of "Screw you, we're outta here. Next year. But for now, please buy tickets" will really boost attendance.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Sending a message of "Screw you, we're outta here. Next year. But for now, please buy tickets" will really boost attendance.

If you want to see what low attendance looks like, then have the ICE announce a move to Chilliwack on June 25th or whatever with barely two months to sell tickets and get sponsorships.

 

[jetsmooseice]

There isn't really any news in this Mike McIntyre column summarizing the ICE's situation. Absolutely no one is talking which probably isn't a great sign... I find it surprising that ICE ownership wouldn't say something to at least try and control the narrative here?!

Jun 2023: Rumours of Ice departure fuelled by arena situation

The Winnipeg Ice are at a critical crossroads, and there is a growing belief the Western Hockey League outfit could soon be on the move. Some in the hockey world suspect they’ve already played their f...

www.winnipegfreepress.com

 

[lanky]

I'm interested to know what changed since 50 Below bought the team and moved them here.
Was it "just" the pandemic / economic downturn?

 

[tbcwpg]

I'm interested to know what changed since 50 Below bought the team and moved them here.
Was it "just" the pandemic / economic downturn?

They were going to build an arena for them but haven't been able to.

 

[lanky]

They were going to build an arena for them but haven't been able to.

Right. Why not though?

 

[jetsmooseice]

I'm interested to know what changed since 50 Below bought the team and moved them here.
Was it "just" the pandemic / economic downturn?

In terms of factors not specific to the ICE ownership group (like their falling out with The Rink's ownership), the pandemic had to be a big hit on its own. But follow that up with significant inflation and interest rate increases and the cost of an arena project has probably gone up a ton as compared to 2019.

I think a scaled down arena proposal (like expanding and renovating Wayne Fleming), or finding some way to use CLC may be their only hope at this point .... I think the ship may have sailed on a brand new, purpose built arena for the ICE.

 

[Al Camino]

Right. Why not though?

In no particular order; there are issues with the RM were the building was supposed to go. Last reporting was the RM has not heard from 50 below in nearly 2 years. They are also being sued by Cranbrook for breaking a lease. There was supposed to be some partnership with the RINK Academy but depending on who you talk to that's unlikely. I'm starting to wonder how much money this group has. I had heard the MJHL Blues and Freeze got tossed of the Ice-Plex for unknow reasons and that players on the Freeze were charged $12,000 to play.
If nothing else they have been a great source of speculation. I suspect if/when they relocate all will be revealed.

 

[jetsmooseice]

In no particular order; there are issues with the RM were the building was supposed to go. Last reporting was the RM has not heard from 50 below in nearly 2 years. They are also being sued by Cranbrook for breaking a lease. There was supposed to be some partnership with the RINK Academy but depending on who you talk to that's unlikely. I'm starting to wonder how much money this group has. I had heard the MJHL Blues and Freeze got tossed of the Ice-Plex for unknow reasons and that players on the Freeze were charged $12,000 to play.
If nothing else they have been a great source of speculation. I suspect if/when they relocate all will be revealed.

Point of order, but I don't think that "50 Below" is the entity that owns the ICE anymore. In the WHL directory, and in legal documents used in various lawsuits against junior hockey teams (Carcillo, etc.) it always references ICE Sports and Entertainment and not 50 Below, which is probably good since that was a dumb name anyway. Not sure if anything changed with regard to actual ownership, I assume it's still Fettes with Cockell having some undisclosed interest?

From all accounts the relationship between the ICE and The Rink has effectively been severed. The ICE have all their facilities there so they continue to use it for that purpose, but that is basically it. There is no realistic hope that a WHL arena will be built out by The Rink.

And since you mentioned it, I wonder where the MJHL teams are in all of this? If the ICE are sold and moved, I assume the MJHL will want to maintain a presence in the city so they'll find another owner if Fettes and Cockell are no longer interested. But what about the Freeze? Do they just die at that point? That second MJHL team always seemed like such an awkward fit for the ICE group. They have been consistently terrible (can't believe kids are paying 12 grand to get drilled every night), although with the number one pick in the MJHL draft last week maybe they'll get better.

 

[RetroWinnipeg]

And since you mentioned it, I wonder where the MJHL teams are in all of this? If the ICE are sold and moved, I assume the MJHL will want to maintain a presence in the city so they'll find another owner if Fettes and Cockell are no longer interested. But what about the Freeze? Do they just die at that point? That second MJHL team always seemed like such an awkward fit for the ICE group. They have been consistently terrible (can't believe kids are paying 12 grand to get drilled every night), although with the number one pick in the MJHL draft last week maybe they'll get better.

For those who may have forgotten, the Winnipeg Freeze's sole reason for existence was to provide balanced divisions for what quickly turned into a failed 2020-21 MJHL season. The Freeze were literally created out of thin air weeks before the season started, and it showed in their putrid showings over the past three years.