Winnipeg Ice coach says Jets dressing room has been divided for "years"

[DRW204]

Multiple parties have some blame for the situation. But only one person is responsible to address lingering, unresolved situations that affect the team performance like this. Chevy. All of the named individuals are chosen by one person, the GM. He is the one that should be held accountable for these festering issues involving the coach and players, while wasting our best years. In Winnipeg, accountability comes in the form of a new 3 year contract!

agreed. if scheifele/wheeler were causing huge issues or divide it should've been nipped at the bud years ago, either by maurice or chevy. both are good players but i really am wondering how good/bad they truly are as leaders.

i have no doubt there's stuff like cliques and whatnot in every locker room. however, how often does it turn into this sort of turmoil? buff retiring, maurice quitting, many players throwing damning shots at motivation/leadership/accountability/culture through public-media, players glad they get traded out of here...all in a few years time period.

some of this lockerroom/culture/leadership stuff might be being exaggerated, but at the same time it was perhaps underplayed or under-reported for years prior.

 

[surixon]

I had heard stories of our locker room in years prior, basically that there was a big divide between the Scheifele/Wheeler side and then everyone else. Never posted because they are just that, stories and not directly from those involved. Looking back at it now, it seems like it was definitely true.

Basically just that Scheifele/Wheeler were militant, not fun, try hard type people who would get on the other players at any time. Some players were okay with this but others and especially the younger players still wanted to be able to have some fun in the locker room/on the ice.

Well i dont think it's speculation any longer. We have heard right from Blake that he can get too hard on younger players and is intense. Mark for years just did nothing but eat, sleep and drink hockey. I can understand how there was a disconnect between those two and players that had a different off and on ice value system.

I think there always needs to be some fun in the room and on the ice and many players need their down time to reset. I think this is where Buff is really missed, he had the presence to counteract Blake and Mark and kept the room more fun.

My guess is the room has been far more business like since Buff left as it is now the Blake/Mark show and they are too similar as leaders.

Maybe with Dubois/Morrissey/Ehlers and Conner finding their voices and taking more control a new direction will be set in the room and more fun and accountability will be had.

 

[Jack7222]

Well i dont think it's speculation any longer. We have heard right from Blake that he can get too hard on younger players and is intense. Mark for years just did nothing but eat, sleep and drink hockey. I can understand how there was a disconnect between those two and players that had a different off and on ice value system.

I think there always needs to be some fun in the room and on the ice and many players need their down time to reset. I think this is where Buff is really missed, he had the presence to counteract Blake and Mark and kept the room more fun.

My guess is the room has been far more business like since Buff left as it is now the Blake/Mark show and they are too similar as leaders.

Maybe with Dubois/Morrissey/Ehlers and Conner finding their voices and taking more control a new direction will be set in the room and more fun and accountability will be had.

Plenty of research showing that high performance requires intrinsic motivation, and that extrinsic factors (money, incentives, punishments, etc) can actually hurt performance because of how they narrow mental focus and limit mental freedom. I'd wager that most athletes play far better when they're having fun (not 'gripping their stick so tight', so to speak). I think that Laine was definitely like that, and his cocky gamer persona was all part of how he liked to vibe with hockey and get in the zone. I think him getting loaded up with a bunch of serious-seeming baggage ended up hurting his game.

Notice how much better we always play in garbage time, notice how much better we played when certain players were not around, etc.

 

[bumblebeeman]

So what did this guy say?

 

[surixon]

Plenty of research showing that high performance requires intrinsic motivation, and that extrinsic factors (money, incentives, punishments, etc) can actually hurt performance because of how they narrow mental focus and limit mental freedom. I'd wager that most athletes play far better when they're having fun (not 'gripping their stick so tight', so to speak). I think that Laine was definitely like that, and his cocky gamer persona was all part of how he liked to vibe with hockey and get in the zone. I think him getting loaded up with a bunch of serious-seeming baggage ended up hurting his game.

Notice how much better we always play in garbage time, notice how much better we played when certain players were not around, etc.

I 100% agree, even in my own professional life I find being in a department that has more levity improves the productivity of everyone.

I think we need to see the same for this group next year.

 

[JetsUK]

Plenty of research showing that high performance requires intrinsic motivation, and that extrinsic factors (money, incentives, punishments, etc) can actually hurt performance because of how they narrow mental focus and limit mental freedom. I'd wager that most athletes play far better when they're having fun (not 'gripping their stick so tight', so to speak). I think that Laine was definitely like that, and his cocky gamer persona was all part of how he liked to vibe with hockey and get in the zone. I think him getting loaded up with a bunch of serious-seeming baggage ended up hurting his game.

Notice how much better we always play in garbage time, notice how much better we played when certain players were not around, etc.

Excellent post with some really interesting perspectives.

I'd only add that at least with Maurice, garbage-time hockey was when the young 'uns used to get their shot. We've heard for years about how much "risk" was involved with integrating young players, and how long they would have to work to earn the trust of the senior team and coaching staff (and, according to Wheeler, ideally hit the age of 30 first).

Maybe that young blood, even when it was prone to mistakes (unlike, say, gud vets like Thorbs or Beaulieu) was able to add freshness and dynamism to a stale core with a specific game style preference to cycle, pick the perfect spot, n/s, etc. Maybe an earlier delegation of locker-room power to that younger core might have made for a more democratic and even meritocratic team where strong play and effort was better rewarded and a next man up philosophy ensured that everyone always had something to play for. Maybe we'll start to see that with a new coaching team.

If I'm TNSE, and I'm hearing from the younger core that they're no longer interested in the status quo, and from PLD that he's waiting to see a clear vision before he signs longterm, and I know how a player like Perfetti is going to want to contribute, I'm starting a deep-down rethink on how this team prepares and plays, and I'm looking to be a lot more proactive going forward.

 

[Guffman]

You are right this could all be bullshit but what does Patrick have to gain by saying what he said? Actually he probably hurt his chances of being the head coach here. I don't really want any of this to be true either but where there is smoke there usually is fire.

Oh, for sure there seems to be some locker room issues. Is it worse than the typical locker room? Is the room fine for most players and it’s just some edge cases? Hard to say.

 

[Guffman]

Well i dont think it's speculation any longer. We have heard right from Blake that he can get too hard on younger players and is intense. Mark for years just did nothing but eat, sleep and drink hockey. I can understand how there was a disconnect between those two and players that had a different off and on ice value system.

I think there always needs to be some fun in the room and on the ice and many players need their down time to reset. I think this is where Buff is really missed, he had the presence to counteract Blake and Mark and kept the room more fun.

My guess is the room has been far more business like since Buff left as it is now the Blake/Mark show and they are too similar as leaders.

Maybe with Dubois/Morrissey/Ehlers and Conner finding their voices and taking more control a new direction will be set in the room and more fun and accountability will be had.

It doesn’t make much sense for these guys to be hard arses when they don’t lead by example anymore. They have probably lost some respect from some of their teammates.

 

[Weezeric]

It doesn’t make much sense for these guys to be hard arses when they don’t lead by example anymore. They have probably lost some respect from some of their teammates.

On the other hand, you could see how Scheifele could be frustrated at being told to take it easy and not be so intense. You could easily throw your hands up in the air and say fine, let’s just go out there and have fun.

 

[surixon]

It doesn’t make much sense for these guys to be hard arses when they don’t lead by example anymore. They have probably lost some respect from some of their teammates.

Well I think Scheifele in particular has seen his in the room stock plummet. I think Blake's has taken a hit as well given the culture comments.

 

[djc]

Now we know why Buff left.

How so? If Buff 'retired' from hockey to avoid playing for the Jets then why did he not take the Wild up on their offer to play for them? Minnesota spent a bit of time and energy trying to get him to come out of retirement and he declined. Would Buff not have taken an offer from another team if he just 'left' to get away from a 'toxic' locker room?

 

[kanadalainen]

Plenty of research showing that high performance requires intrinsic motivation, and that extrinsic factors (money, incentives, punishments, etc) can actually hurt performance because of how they narrow mental focus and limit mental freedom. I'd wager that most athletes play far better when they're having fun (not 'gripping their stick so tight', so to speak). I think that Laine was definitely like that, and his cocky gamer persona was all part of how he liked to vibe with hockey and get in the zone. I think him getting loaded up with a bunch of serious-seeming baggage ended up hurting his game.

Notice how much better we always play in garbage time, notice how much better we played when certain players were not around, etc.

^^^ You nailed it!

 

[surixon]

How so? If Buff 'retired' from hockey to avoid playing for the Jets then why did he not take the Wild up on their offer to play for them? Minnesota spent a bit of time and energy trying to get him to come out of retirement and he declined. Would Buff not have taken an offer from another team if he just 'left' to get away from a 'toxic' locker room?

Yup, I'm sure the state of the room was low on the list of reasons to hang them up.

 

[Jimmyjets]

So what did this guy say?

That Cody Eakin and Kevin Hayes said that the Jets dressing room was one of the worst they've ever been in and that it had been that way for years.

 

[bumblebeeman]

That Cody Eakin and Kevin Hayes said that the Jets dressing room was one of the worst they've ever been in and that it had been that way for years.

Did they say what was bad about it?

 

[Howard Chuck]

Well, I won't claim to know anything about 'the room', but there is far too much smoke for there not to be a good amount of fire.

Whatever it is, whoever it is, Chevy better figure it out and fix it. We have very good roster and some very good talent waiting in the wings, there will be no excuse for not being a much better team going forward.

It really boggles my mind how successful business people such as Chipman, can throw away their team like they have, without making the necessary changes. If I had personality issues at my place of business that were casting a large dark cloud over the name and the bottom line, you can bet your ass there would be changes. We all saw it over the past few years, the media has seen it, everyone has seen it.

I just don't understand how you can watch hundreds of millions of dollars languish and threaten to disappear.

 

[jiho]

Well, I won't claim to know anything about 'the room', but there is far too much smoke for there not to be a good amount of fire.

Whatever it is, whoever it is, Chevy better figure it out and fix it. We have very good roster and some very good talent waiting in the wings, there will be no excuse for not being a much better team going forward.

It really boggles my mind how successful business people such as Chipman, can throw away their team like they have, without making the necessary changes. If I had personality issues at my place of business that were casting a large dark cloud over the name and the bottom line, you can bet your ass there would be changes. We all saw it over the past few years, the media has seen it, everyone has seen it.

I just don't understand how you can watch hundreds of millions of dollars languish and threaten to disappear.

I am sure Chevy never knew what was going on in the room .....just like he knew nothing going on with Kyle Beach. If he does not know what is going on with his teams or ignores things because he does not want to make tough decisions he should not be a GM

 

[tbcwpg]

Did they say what was bad about it?

Just that some players were above the team. I'm sure you can find the clip if you want, it's on this board in about 5 different spots.

 

[surixon]

Well, I won't claim to know anything about 'the room', but there is far too much smoke for there not to be a good amount of fire.

Whatever it is, whoever it is, Chevy better figure it out and fix it. We have very good roster and some very good talent waiting in the wings, there will be no excuse for not being a much better team going forward.

It really boggles my mind how successful business people such as Chipman, can throw away their team like they have, without making the necessary changes. If I had personality issues at my place of business that were casting a large dark cloud over the name and the bottom line, you can bet your ass there would be changes. We all saw it over the past few years, the media has seen it, everyone has seen it.

I just don't understand how you can watch hundreds of millions of dollars languish and threaten to disappear.

Its funny isn't it but at the same time hardly that surprising. The reason it hasn't been "dealt with" is that it appears the problem spot is the two most influential players in the market. Scheifele was an elite top 10 center and is still an elite offensive ppg player with defensive issues. Wheeler was the captain that lead you to the highest finish in franchise issue. TNSE is hardly the first org to turn a blind eye to players with elite talent causing issues, instead seeking to make things work with them. This isn't just a Winnipeg thing, look at how many chances Evander Kane gets. Sports teams turn a blind eye if they believe the talent will help them win. Look at some of those NFL receivers with massive egos that cause issues, they keep getting jobs. It happens all the time and in a good many markets and orgs. It just came to a head here.

It has now reached a point here were the success is no longer coming so it issues don't out way the benefits so you will see it being dealt with imo.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Well, I won't claim to know anything about 'the room', but there is far too much smoke for there not to be a good amount of fire.

Whatever it is, whoever it is, Chevy better figure it out and fix it. We have very good roster and some very good talent waiting in the wings, there will be no excuse for not being a much better team going forward.

It really boggles my mind how successful business people such as Chipman, can throw away their team like they have, without making the necessary changes. If I had personality issues at my place of business that were casting a large dark cloud over the name and the bottom line, you can bet your ass there would be changes. We all saw it over the past few years, the media has seen it, everyone has seen it.

I just don't understand how you can watch hundreds of millions of dollars languish and threaten to disappear.

Well said.

 

[Guffman]

On the other hand, you could see how Scheifele could be frustrated at being told to take it easy and not be so intense. You could easily throw your hands up in the air and say fine, let’s just go out there and have fun.

I always thought the first part of the season (until All-Star Break) is a time for players to pad their stats and have fun. The latter part of the season is to get serious (“flip the switch”) and play a more disciplined, team game.

Maybe he was being too intense too early. That can burn people (players) out.

 

[Huffer]

Its funny isn't it but at the same time hardly that surprising. The reason it hasn't been "dealt with" is that it appears the problem spot is the two most influential players in the market. Scheifele was an elite top 10 center and is still an elite offensive ppg player with defensive issues. Wheeler was the captain that lead you to the highest finish in franchise issue. TNSE is hardly the first org to turn a blind eye to players with elite talent causing issues, instead seeking to make things work with them. This isn't just a Winnipeg thing, look at how many chances Evander Kane gets. Sports teams turn a blind eye if they believe the talent will help them win. Look at some of those NFL receivers with massive egos that cause issues, they keep getting jobs. It happens all the time and in a good many markets and orgs. It just came to a head here.

It has now reached a point here were the success is no longer coming so it issues don't out way the benefits so you will see it being dealt with imo.

I agree with what you are saying here. But I also hope there is a major lesson learned here in TNSE.

By that I mean, I really hope they take the approach of, Team success is the only thing that matters here. If you're not helping us move in that direction, you are not part of the solution. And that not only includes on ice results, but off ice issues as well. If you're not pulling us forward, you're holding us back.

Where the rubber hits the road is when a GM has to make the tough call. If it was indeed years where this room wasn't cohesive, that's a black mark on the coaching staff and Chevy IMO. I'm not sure what the appropriate amount of time is (half season, full season), but if you have a problem, a clear divide, and it's holding the team back, IMO you have to make a change. And if it's your captain, so be it. If it's your #1C, so be it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Not sure about that 'Unlike other teams" stuff.

I've been on several teams, both hockey and football, over the years and it was always understood that the young players didn't have a voice. Remember one dressing room where I piped up about something and this big LB called back "Rookies keep their gawdam mouths shut".

Never been on a team where the young guys had much say before their soph seasons.

And how do they get beyond that 'rookie' stage when all they get is PB or down to the AHL?

I don't know the degree to which it is on Scheif and Wheeler. Must be some. But in the end it is down to coaching. The coach chooses, or at least approves of where the letters go. He let this situation develop and then let it fester.

 

[surixon]

I agree with what you are saying here. But I also hope there is a major lesson learned here in TNSE.

By that I mean, I really hope they take the approach of, Team success is the only thing that matters here. If you're not helping us move in that direction, you are not part of the solution. And that not only includes on ice results, but off ice issues as well. If you're not pulling us forward, you're holding us back.

Where the rubber hits the road is when a GM has to make the tough call. If it was indeed years where this room wasn't cohesive, that's a black mark on the coaching staff and Chevy IMO. I'm not sure what the appropriate amount of time is (half season, full season), but if you have a problem, a clear divide, and it's holding the team back, IMO you have to make a change. And if it's your captain, so be it. If it's your #1C, so be it.

I don't disagree. Hard to know how long things have been really bad though. Was it the dressing room or poor defense the two prior years? I'm not sure but I think there will always be issues in a room full of a bunch of alphas that all want as much as possible. I think you need to be able to manage room turbulence to some extent in pro sports. Obviously what happened this year looks to be well beyond what is normal. How long it's been like this though is certainly up for debate.

 

[Stumbledore]

And how do they get beyond that 'rookie' stage when all they get is PB or down to the AHL?

Well I dont know if that's all they get. And you go beyond rookie stage by showing up for a second or third year and contributing to the team's success.