Winnipeg Attendance

[Aphid]

I can't recall one time where I had the urge to look up other teams attendance figures. Does it really matter so much to care about the finances of a team you have no investment in whether it is financial or emotional? I hope not.

 

[MessierII]

The blue bombers had a big game the same night with over 30k people.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Because, like it or not, that's what keeps a team around...hard to be a fan when the team no longer exists.

But would it really be much different for the team's overall finances at only 95% capacity? Explain please.

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

The blue bombers had a big game the same night with over 30k people.

That was the season opener on Friday, which overlapped with the Bomber game. A 33,000+ sellout for the Bombers and 14,564 at the Jets game. This thread is about disappointing attendance at the second game that happened during thanksgiving dinner, and is ridiculously overblown.

 

[Ossific]

Hi. I'm from Winnipeg. I had to host a Thanksgiving family dinner at 5:00PM. Everyone wanted to watch the Bombers game after. Just a bad time to have a Jets game, we'll be fine.

 

[King In The North]

View attachment 916924
Sub 13k during a long weekend coming off a successful season + playoffs. What gives Winnipeg? The media keeps harping on how Quebec city deserves a team but given that Winnipeg is in the smallest arena and cannot sell out consistently with a good team in a larger market - I don't see any further teams in Canada.

You're wondering why, on Canadian Thanksgiving, people may not attend a dinner-time game?

 

[NVious]

Wow they nearly tripled Phoenix's attendance last year? Maybe time for a 2nd team?

 

[Jovavic]

Oh look, it's this thread again

 

[OG6ix]

Wow they nearly tripled Phoenix's attendance last year? Maybe time for a 2nd team?

Or since Arizona had to relocate....

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

Or since Arizona had to relocate....

…because they had no arena? I don't think we have a better rink for a second team than what they were playing in. We’re not greedy, Utah can have some hockey too.

 

[OG6ix]

…because they had no arena? I don't think we have a better rink for a second team than what they were playing in. We’re not greedy, Utah can have some hockey too.

Didn't pick up my sarcasm clearly.

 

[MMC]

This is still much better than what they were drawing when this thread was made last year (a bit over 11k)

 

[tantalum]

But would it really be much different for the team's overall finances at only 95% capacity? Explain please.

If they were at 95+% capacity this isn't a discussion. But they aren't. Last year they were close to 85%. And the real issue is the dwindling season ticket base. It's at ~10,000 people right now when it needs to be closer to 13,000. They reduced prices by 10-15% for season ticket packages and saw a gain of only 500 (~5% gain). By lowering those prices they may be bringing in less season ticket money this year. If the average ticket price was $100 last year and $90 this year they lose 50k of revenue per game compared to last year.

Plus, there is a massive difference in getting 5000 mores people in the building every night compared to 2000. Businesses plan most around guaranteed income and that isn't where it needs to be. Winnipeg as a locale also will have less corporate sponsorship which does put extra pressure on fans to fill the seats.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Please tell me why I, as s fan, am better off with every-game sellouts and ridiculous ticket prices.

Thanks in advance.

I said this exact same thing when I lived in AZ. Tickets were cheap because people didn't go to the games(and honestly, when I had season tickets, I didn't go to half the games because I didn't want to drive all the way out there). This forum has a hard on for full arenas. If the league was more popular, it wouldn't matter who showed up to the games, because they'd be financially fine because of TV money.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

If they were at 95+% capacity this isn't a discussion. But they aren't. Last year they were close to 85%. And the real issue is the dwindling season ticket base. It's at ~10,000 people right now when it needs to be closer to 13,000. They reduced prices by 10-15% for season ticket packages and saw a gain of only 500 (~5% gain). By lowering those prices they may be bringing in less season ticket money this year. If the average ticket price was $100 last year and $90 this year they lose 50k of revenue per game compared to last year.

Plus, there is a massive difference in getting 5000 mores people in the building every night compared to 2000. Businesses plan most around guaranteed income and that isn't where it needs to be. Winnipeg as a locale also will have less corporate sponsorship which does put extra pressure on fans to fill the seats.

Yeah, but the Jets' owner has like $60+B so this difference wouldn't even be a noticeable rounding error.

If the Jets were owned by the Poor Sisters of the Downtrodden who were using the business profits to buy their daily macaroni & cheese these attendance figures might be a big deal, but such is not the case.

Also, for all the owners, the real profit is in franchise appreciation. Just look at Meruelo and that mess that he had in Phoenix with the Coyotes playing their last years in a college stadium with limited seating. At the end of the day, Meruelo paid $425M for the franchise and sold it for a cool $1B -- a profit of $575M.

 

[I am not exposed]

Move them to Orlando.

 

[Tasteless Beaver]

If they were at 95+% capacity this isn't a discussion. But they aren't. Last year they were close to 85%. And the real issue is the dwindling season ticket base. It's at ~10,000 people right now when it needs to be closer to 13,000. They reduced prices by 10-15% for season ticket packages and saw a gain of only 500 (~5% gain). By lowering those prices they may be bringing in less season ticket money this year. If the average ticket price was $100 last year and $90 this year they lose 50k of revenue per game compared to last year.

Plus, there is a massive difference in getting 5000 mores people in the building every night compared to 2000. Businesses plan most around guaranteed income and that isn't where it needs to be. Winnipeg as a locale also will have less corporate sponsorship which does put extra pressure on fans to fill the seats.

One game data sample. On thanksgiving. Don’t blame Winnipeggers for the NHL’s incompetence in scheduling. The NHL doesn’t even schedule games on US thanksgiving because turnout is going to be awful - but for us with our slightly reduced ticket prices, it means we’re a terrible hockey market? Get lost.

 

[Cup or Bust]

It is unfortunate. It really depends on the owner and how he sees it. If he thinks he can make more money in another market, then it will become a real problem.

 

[winnipegger]

The Toronto Leafblowers would be a fun team. Charge half the price for tickets and fans can bring foam leaf blowers to every game.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Ontario can easily support another team.

Yeah but that would destroy what little attendance is left in Buffalo, and probably cause them to do worse than WPG and eventually fold. I believe Buffalo's owner would need to approve something like that, which is why it hasn't happened. Toronto needs to approve it too, which is also unlikely.

 

[SUX2BU]

View attachment 916924
Sub 13k during a long weekend coming off a successful season + playoffs. What gives Winnipeg? The media keeps harping on how Quebec city deserves a team but given that Winnipeg is in the smallest arena and cannot sell out consistently with a good team in a larger market - I don't see any further teams in Canada.

That’s what gives

 

[Channelcat]

The Jets have no debt. Might be the only team in the league that can say so. Edmonton has high revenues because a hotdog costs 50$ and they have a 500,000,000$ building to pay for.

 

[tarheelhockey]

But would it really be much different for the team's overall finances at only 95% capacity? Explain please.

It might really make that much of a difference, given the size of the arena. Sellouts are what drive the value of season tickets. You can get away with 95% capacity in a large building because the volume means the organization isn’t completely dependent on selling every single ticket. But in a much smaller building, you’re really relying on selling out in order to drive up pressure and prices.

This is especially true of season ticket sales. In a small building, you absolutely need to sell out your season ticket supply. If that doesn’t happen, supply pressure goes away and seasons ticket holders start bailing. It’s one thing for that to happen when you have 16K season ticket holders and they’re just going to turn around and buy nosebleed seats instead. When the base is more like 10K and there are no nosebleeds, that’s a problem. It’s almost like having a completely empty upper deck and a partially empty lower bowl. There’s a point where the price pressure falls off a cliff and face value prices are suddenly WAY higher than resale value, which causes season ticket holders to flee in droves (especially if the team isn’t a contender, which is the other big reason to hold on to season tickets).

@tantalum said upthread that they reduced the prices of season tickets and still barely increased sales. I hadn’t heard of that before but if accurate, it’s a really bad sign that they are approaching the cliff. Reducing the price of tickets is damn near unheard of in the modern NHL, and the lack of response from the customer base suggests the prices are still beyond the actual market value of the tickets. Which means attendance will continue to drop, or the team needs to cut prices even more which is a non-option.

 

[tantalum]

One game data sample. On thanksgiving. Don’t blame Winnipeggers for the NHL’s incompetence in scheduling. The NHL doesn’t even schedule games on US thanksgiving because turnout is going to be awful - but for us with our slightly reduced ticket prices, it means we’re a terrible hockey market? Get lost.

My comment had nothing to do with one game. It had to do with 9500 season tickets last year. It had to do with 85% capacity last season. They dropped the prices 10-15% and gained only 5% more season tickets. Those are all numbers that can be found with a simple search,

I also made no comment on Winnipeg begin a "terrible" hockey market or the fans are bad or anything like that. What I said was, ya, if seats stay empty (and 85% capacity is empty) then ya a team can be at risk. That's not earth shattering news.

 

[sabremike]

Yeah but that would destroy what little attendance is left in Buffalo, and probably cause them to do worse that WPG and eventually fold. I believe Buffalo's owner would need to approve something like that, which is why it hasn't happened. Toronto needs to approve it too, which is also unlikely.

And you being in Brooklyn can see first hand what a second Tarannah area team would look like: The Brooklyn Nets: Team has no real fans (everyone roots for the Knicks) and people only buy tickets because they want to see NBA basketball but MSG is too expensive.