Post-Game Talk: Wings 4 - Jets 2

[Adam da bomb]

I haven't been really impressed with the Ehlers - Lowry - Perfetti experiments so far, but they haven't had enough minutes to really gel and develop an identity

When Arniel started doing that, I wondered if Lowry would be the "in house" 2C upgrade then they go out and find a an upgrade at 3C that doesn't cost them their 1st round pick

The issue with that is what kind of 3rd line are you left with? Do you try to trade for a Lowry clone, like say Frederic? Or do you try to make it more of an offensive line with a centre to compliment Nino and AI?

Then your 4th line is a mix of Barron, Names, Appleton, Kupari and Gus

I think 3rd line with ai, Nino and x have just been trucking along at same pace. Perfetti has been good defensively so u are hoping they can both score more, defend more and just get their numbers up so ehlers has more minutes.

 

[DRW204]

I was about to edit my previous point of I don’t even expect our first line to come out even as they have no superstar like a MacKinnon so will lose that competition.

I mean they have elite players. Kc is elite at scoring, but, he doesn’t have that take over the game aspect of a superstar just consistently gets his points.

I just keep thinking 2nd line just needs a Villardi/bunting/ Lowry player. Good defensively, digs pucks out of corner and then gets it to Ehlers who creates play or scores or even banks it off 3rd guy.

That he can do it the way Kane did for Chicago. I probably have unrealistic expectations of Ehlers. I just see Malkin making work in Pittsburgh with bums. Or many other superstars around the league getting good money on second line because the team can cheap out on their linemates and know they’ll continue to produce.

Yes Ehlers is not like two first ballot HOF/Hart level players like Malkin or Kane. Astute insight. Keep this same energy for other players too.

He's producing well, not to his career standard but vs the other Jets fwds this season still.
the line does get goals /solid in goal differential (ofc with Helle) but they aren't dangerous consistently offensively. Do you find namestnikov or perfetti having any consistent offensive juice?

 

[ps241]

The Jets have “147 goals for” so far this season which is 1st in the NHL. We do not have a goal scoring problem. Every team has holes, every team has weaknesses, and opportunities to get better. That is what the salary cap and parity brings.

As has been pointed out although our 2nd line could score more they have been very good defensively, that is what can happen when you use a defensive centre. It leads to a net positive result when that line is on the ice. I for one have less of a problem with it because they usually win their match ups.

Like I mentioned we are leading the league in goals for so scoring isn’t a team problem.

 

[Gm0ney]

But, not hurting us is different than winning us games.
The way I picture it is the first line matches up with theirs and draws even, our Lowry line neutralizes their 2nd line and Ehlers and Perfetti should be feasting on their 3rd line and winning us the game.

ENP's 70% goal share is amazing. Even their goals/60 rate is just a shade under CSV's. They are feasting.

But ENP's metrics are trash. If you take that Moneypuck chart and lower TOI to 140, there are 67 offensive lines...ENP is 63rd in xGF%, 61st in xGF/60, and 43rd in xGA/60.

There's something not clicking with that line...even though the results are good so far.

 

[NA Hockey]

He definitely shows a propensity for C. That one play last night where he scooped that centering pass in his zone was prime C positioning. I'd really love to see him slide to C

Just rewatched that sequence. On that play, Cole made the great d play to intercept the pass in front and skated to the wall and fired a 120 pass to Ehlers at the far blue which created a 2-1 with Lowry coming down the middle. Nik skated in and instead of making a simple pass to Lowry for a breakaway, he tried a wild 360 spinning pass that didn’t get through.

Nik is awesome at the spectacular but it is the simple plays and turnovers that make him frustrating and hard to play with.

 

[Jack7222]

On paper our 2nd line should be one of the strongest in league. Few teams have a player as strong as Ehlers on their 2nd line.
So, is it just the wrong combination?
Teams with good 2c don’t have wingers like ehlers on line.

I really just don't feel they have a lot of chemistry, so maybe they kind of default to staying on the right side of the puck. Or maybe Perfetti and Namest are overly aware of defensive responsibilities to the detriment of offense. Idk.

I like Perfetti but he does feel anemic at times and almost like he's always snakebitten. Just not sure the combo of these three together is getting the most out of them all.

Warnings about their goal share being excellent and swapping players around making for a flashier but less effective line are worth noting though

I haven't been really impressed with the Ehlers - Lowry - Perfetti experiments so far, but they haven't had enough minutes to really gel and develop an identity

When Arniel started doing that, I wondered if Lowry would be the "in house" 2C upgrade then they go out and find a an upgrade at 3C that doesn't cost them their 1st round pick

The issue with that is what kind of 3rd line are you left with? Do you try to trade for a Lowry clone, like say Frederic? Or do you try to make it more of an offensive line with a centre to compliment Nino and AI?

Then your 4th line is a mix of Barron, Names, Appleton, Kupari and Gus

Somehow I feel like Ehlers and Perfetti specifically don't mesh at all...

 

[johnnyonthspot]

they could have won both games and were not outplayed.
PK needs to improve hopefully once Samberg comes back plus without Morrissey the Jets are not a contender.

My biggest take away was their weak against the forecheck and secondary scoring is hard to find.

Agreed they likely won all periods but the first period yesterday and the last few minutes vs the ducks but PK is bad right now.

 

[WolfHouse]

5v5 P/60 this season:

Stanley: 1.16
Kovacevic: 0.90
Chisholm: 0.79

Looks like maybe Chevy kept the right guy

Love how the guy that rants about people bringing up Kova and Chisholm always seems to be the guy bringing up Kova and Chisholm hahahaa

Morrissey only has 1.1 P/60 this season - let's bump Stan up to the top pairing!!!

 

[johnnyonthspot]

I just wish that even the posters who tend to hold a more negative view towards the team would come in after losses and actually discuss WHY the team lost instead of just complaining about the fact that the team is shitty and the coach is shirty and the GM is shitty.

That game last night was very much winnable, but the PK let them down, and to some degree the PP also.

There's also the fact that Detroit started with 2 PPS in the first 5 or 6 minutes, which prevents your skilled guys from getting into a grthey oove. Then Morrissey was hit in the face, and then Miller leaves the game. That causes mishmashes of D pairings that can be chaotic

Mix in 4 goalposts and the game doesn't go our way. Just based on probabilities, games like that are bound to happen to teams throughout the season (and sometimes stretches) and it's nothing to get alarmed about.

I'm sure someone will come along and accuse me of "making excuses", but yeah. Sometimes teams lose and there are little bullshit reasons why. It's hockey

I have been accused of coming on only when they lose, which is not true. I never say fire this guy, trade that guy unless there is good reason not a few losses in a row. Lots of negative things happened last night and they still had a chance but they were undisciplined penalties, they stared slow right off the bat and look like a shell of the 16-1 team where everything was going right. I think the last 20 games gives us all an idea of what needs to change for them to contend. It is all easier said than done but still frustrating since they will likely never have a goalie like Helly again and are 50/50 at best to win a cup this year with him as they are currently constructed.

 

[WolfHouse]

Posts are deleted because they break forum rules, not because of what position they take. Also, posts from the people I suspect you're lumping into "pro org" do get deleted too sometimes when they cross lines.

Speaking as a poster and not as a moderator, discussing the posts at hand is often difficult because I find people come here (on both ends of many debates) with their minds made up and looking for confirmation from other people that they're right. When it comes to the "only posting when they lose", I don't think it's always true, I think some people post more when they lose but I still see them posting here during off days and wins. I'll say I don't see a group of people posting more only when the team wins, though.

Finally a sane post.

I have been accused of coming on only when they lose, which is not true. I never say fire this guy, trade that guy unless there is good reason not a few losses in a row. Lots of negative things happened last night and they still had a chance but they were undisciplined penalties, they stared slow right off the bat and look like a shell of the 16-1 team where everything was going right. I think the last 20 games gives us all an idea of what needs to change for them to contend. It is all easier said than done but still frustrating since they will likely never have a goalie like Helly again and are 50/50 at best to win a cup this year with him as they are currently constructed.

You're the biggest shit disturber on this site

 

[Buffdog]

I have been accused of coming on only when they lose, which is not true. I never say fire this guy, trade that guy unless there is good reason not a few losses in a row. Lots of negative things happened last night and they still had a chance but they were undisciplined penalties, they stared slow right off the bat and look like a shell of the 16-1 team where everything was going right. I think the last 20 games gives us all an idea of what needs to change for them to contend. It is all easier said than done but still frustrating since they will likely never have a goalie like Helly again and are 50/50 at best to win a cup this year with him as they are currently constructed.

There are specifically 3 or 4 posters I was talking about, and I don't consider you one of them

This post is entirely reasonable and there's not much I would disagree with

The one thing I'd maybe say is that we weren't as good as our 16-1 record, but I also don't think that we're as bad as our record over the last 20 games. For that reason, I think that our overall record is about indicative of what we are as a team

If we're gong to make a deep run in the spring, lots of things will have to go right for us. But that's true for every contender. The fun part is that there are maybe 10 fanbases that can even have the hope that it might happen (which still means that 9 fanbases won't see their team lift the cup)

 

[surixon]

I really just don't feel they have a lot of chemistry, so maybe they kind of default to staying on the right side of the puck. Or maybe Perfetti and Namest are overly aware of defensive responsibilities to the detriment of offense. Idk.

I like Perfetti but he does feel anemic at times and almost like he's always snakebitten. Just not sure the combo of these three together is getting the most out of them all.

Warnings about their goal share being excellent and swapping players around making for a flashier but less effective line are worth noting though



Somehow I feel like Ehlers and Perfetti specifically don't mesh at all...

I said last year that Cole was the one top 6 player Fly doesn't mesh with and vise versa. They do better apart then together as imo they want to do the same things on their respective lines albeit differently. Cole defers far too much to Fly and that is what Fly wants, he wants to be the one man show on his line and always has. Cole hasn't learned to play his game with him, instead taking on more of a defensive and passive offensive role.

He's better when he's more assertive with the puck and we saw that just a couple of weeks ago when he got to drive his line.

As @Buffdog stated scoring consistency is something that tends to develop later. His game has been more even this year but he's still working on burying those chances. The fact is that he's getting a lot of them and imo with further experience he'll learn to bear down and convert on them.

Also can't expect everyone on a team to be shooting the lights out. We have a number of players having career years with with seemingly almost everything going in for them.

 

[Jet]

I really just don't feel they have a lot of chemistry, so maybe they kind of default to staying on the right side of the puck. Or maybe Perfetti and Namest are overly aware of defensive responsibilities to the detriment of offense.

Somehow I feel like Ehlers and Perfetti specifically don't mesh at all...

I just don't get why they don't flip Nik and Gabe at the very least.

 

[Buffdog]

Somehow I feel like Ehlers and Perfetti specifically don't mesh at all

In a lot of ways, the two are very different types of players. Sometimes that works out really well and guys compliment each other, and other times it's oil and water

I don't think that they're BAD together, but they certainly don't have the type of chemistry that elevates each other

I just don't get why they don't flip Nik and Gabe at the very least.

Speed, I'd imagine

 

[ps241]

I have been accused of coming on only when they lose, which is not true. I never say fire this guy, trade that guy unless there is good reason not a few losses in a row. Lots of negative things happened last night and they still had a chance but they were undisciplined penalties, they stared slow right off the bat and look like a shell of the 16-1 team where everything was going right. I think the last 20 games gives us all an idea of what needs to change for them to contend. It is all easier said than done but still frustrating since they will likely never have a goalie like Helly again and are 50/50 at best to win a cup this year with him as they are currently constructed.

50-50 at best to win the cup? Moneypuck currently has us at a 6.2% chance to win the cup and I would say that is generous.

 

[voyageur]

I thought rantanen played on their first line with Mack.
Google told me it was middlestadt, Ross Colton lehk. So, typical 2nd line a stronger 2c and then two wingers worse than ehlers and perfetti. Every 2nd line generally has one guy who is supposed to carry the load, rantanen, in our case Ehlers and 2 secondary weaker pieces.

Nichushkin was playing top line. I guess he was injured for last game which broke their winning streak. Rantanen was playing 2nd line. And carrying it.

Ehlers had a nice goal last night. I didn't see the game but I noticed Nino was out there instead of Fetts. Line change, or line juggling.

 

[Jet]

In a lot of ways, the two are very different types of players. Sometimes that works out really well and guys compliment each other, and other times it's oil and water

I don't think that they're BAD together, but they certainly don't have the type of chemistry that elevates each other

I really feel like Nik though he is capable of great passes is a bit of a lone wolf out there. He does make some bad decisions that ends up going the other way, but he never quits defensively.

Maybe he should play with Lowry? That could mitigate some of the risk, and he gets more ice time. A lot of what he generates he creates by himself, and if he played with Lowry and Nino they could do the heavy lifting on the wall and get the puck to him in scoring positions, utilizing his shot.

Call up Chibrikov and then go

13 55 81
9 90 91
27 17 62
15 7 19

 

[WolfHouse]

Looking at the game again...

Stan really is not a good fit for our PK - we have been aggressive all season and when he is out there, he just doesn't have the acceleration to pressure guys so we get back into the collapsing box... Yes, he's been doing well with Pionk but holy fk those were ugly PK - he just reminds me a lot of Beaulieu where yes he's blocking shots and 'moving guys' but its a shooting gallery when he's out there...

What is the benefit of playing Names - he is clearly injured... call up Chibs or bump up Nino to second line...

Dunno sure looks like Perfetti-Ehlers have SOME chemistry - just CP is snake-bit for sure... then there the fact the play dies on Lowry's stick

Shitty break on the Pionk deflection but its REALLY noticeable how aggressive that PK is... Samberg cannot come back soon enough

Still think its crazy that Nino is not consistently in our top six

KFC had one of his worst games of the season - Ill chalk that up to a blip

Don't understand how you don't give Kupari or Gus a look at 2C while Names is knicked up - the 4th line was by far our best line yesterday

Will say it again - neither Stan or Heinola are good options for the playoffs

I really feel like Nik though he is capable of great passes is a bit of a lone wolf out there. He does make some bad decisions that ends up going the other way, but he never quits defensively.

Maybe he should play with Lowry? That could mitigate some of the risk, and he gets more ice time. A lot of what he generates he creates by himself, and if he played with Lowry and Nino they could do the heavy lifting on the wall and get the puck to him in scoring positions, utilizing his shot.

Call up Chibrikov and then go

13 55 81
9 90 91
27 17 62
15 7 19

He played with Lowry last night.

I said last year that Cole was the one top 6 player Fly doesn't mesh with and vise versa. They do better apart then together as imo they want to do the same things on their respective lines albeit differently. Cole defers far too much to Fly and that is what Fly wants, he wants to be the one man show on his line and always has. Cole hasn't learned to play his game with him, instead taking on more of a defensive and passive offensive role.

He's better when he's more assertive with the puck and we saw that just a couple of weeks ago when he got to drive his line.

As @Buffdog stated scoring consistency is something that tends to develop later. His game has been more even this year but he's still working on burying those chances. The fact is that he's getting a lot of them and imo with further experience he'll learn to bear down and convert on them.

Also can't expect everyone on a team to be shooting the lights out. We have a number of players having career years with with seemingly almost everything going in for them.

Ehlers set Cole up TWICE last night and he hit crossbars... convo is TOTALLY different today if those shots go in - then we are raving about the 2nd line chemistry haha

 

[Gm0ney]

50-50 at best to win the cup? Moneypuck currently has us at a 6.2% chance to win the cup and I would say that is generous.

Moneypuck has us at nearly 60% to advance to the second round and I'm saying "whoa...pump the brakes!"

 

[Buffdog]

I really feel like Nik though he is capable of great passes is a bit of a lone wolf out there. He does make some bad decisions that ends up going the other way, but he never quits defensively.

Maybe he should play with Lowry? That could mitigate some of the risk, and he gets more ice time. A lot of what he generates he creates by himself, and if he played with Lowry and Nino they could do the heavy lifting on the wall and get the puck to him in scoring positions, utilizing his shot.

Call up Chibrikov and then go

13 55 81
9 90 91
27 17 62
15 7 19

Chibs isn't a centre. Perfetti would have to play C there... or run Chibs Names Cole as a 3rd line vs softer matchups. I think Chibs would provide a grinding/physicality element to that line that Ehlers doesnt

I think there needs to be one upgrade in the middle 6, and ideally it's a centre

Moneypuck has us at nearly 60% to advance to the second round and I'm saying "whoa...pump the brakes!"

"Excuse me, moneypuck... but we don't do 'second rounds' (whatever those are) around here"

 

[gojetsgo]

we only have 4 legit top 6 players on this team atm, I really don't see any combo's that would work without bringing in another player and hoping perfetti starts producing more offensively

 

[voyageur]

There are specifically 3 or 4 posters I was talking about, and I don't consider you one of them

This post is entirely reasonable and there's not much I would disagree with

The one thing I'd maybe say is that we weren't as good as our 16-1 record, but I also don't think that we're as bad as our record over the last 20 games. For that reason, I think that our overall record is about indicative of what we are as a team

If we're gong to make a deep run in the spring, lots of things will have to go right for us. But that's true for every contender. The fun part is that there are maybe 10 fanbases that can even have the hope that it might happen (which still means that 9 fanbases won't see their team lift the cup)

I was listening to Todd Mc Lellan talk about the Jets on the radio in the pregame. And it was interesting because he identified them not by their talent but by their structure. Saying it was a team where everybody bought in, and that is what made them a tough out.

I think you can look around the league and find a lot more teams with more talent than the Jets. But that structure and the PP acumen, as well as a Vezina goalie, are key parts to the Jets success.
If the structure breaks, either through injury or chemistry, is there enough talent to win with this team?

 

[TS Quint]

To throw some crap at the wall.....I'd be curious to see what Barron could do between 27 & 91.

He's big, fast and it's a pretty garbage stat but he leads the team in takeaways. If he can find a way to chase down some pucks and know his role is to disrupt the net on offense there is some potential there.

 

[WolfHouse]

we only have 4 legit top 6 players on this team atm, I really don't see any combo's that would work without bringing in another player and hoping perfetti starts producing more offensively

CSV
Ehlers-Nino-Perfetti

Not ideal - but I'd rather see if it works before spending assets... Nino has looked good on faceoffs and he has the size

 

[Buffdog]

I was listening to Todd Mc Lellan talk about the Jets on the radio in the pregame. And it was interesting because he identified them not by their talent but by their structure. Saying it was a team where everybody bought in, and that is what made them a tough out.

I think you can look around the league and find a lot more teams with more talent than the Jets. But that structure and the PP acumen, as well as a Vezina goalie, are key parts to the Jets success.
If the structure breaks, either through injury or chemistry, is there enough talent to win with this team?

Very few teams have the talent to win if their structure breaks down (or is broken down)

In addition to buy in, I think that the Jets have great depth. Aside from Barron, Kupari and Gus (only 2 of whom would be in the line up if everyone is healthy), there aren't any offensive black holes in our forward group. Most teams have 5 or 6

In order to make a deep run in the spring, we need (in my opinion):

1. Playoff Helle to be as good as regular season helle
2. Win special teams battles (PK needs to improve)
3. Depth scoring

Honestly, if we get any combination of 2 of those on any given night, this team has a very good chance of winning games