Post-Game Talk: Wings 4 - Jets 2

[tbcwpg]

I think it's more pro-org people vs people who criticise the org. There are people around here who are among the rudest and least respectful posters but because they tend to be 'pro org', they rarely come under the wrath of the arbiters-of-whether-people-post-correctly. Sports are emotional and I think people often just have a hard time seeing their favourite teams and players receive criticism.

I personally get more exhausted with the constant commentary about what others are allowed to post (whether they post more after losses, after wins, say X about this player but not enough about Y player, are biased in this and that way, etc etc etc) and wish people would just discuss the posts at hand and leave it at that. But, there are all types around here I suppose.

Posts are deleted because they break forum rules, not because of what position they take. Also, posts from the people I suspect you're lumping into "pro org" do get deleted too sometimes when they cross lines.

Speaking as a poster and not as a moderator, discussing the posts at hand is often difficult because I find people come here (on both ends of many debates) with their minds made up and looking for confirmation from other people that they're right. When it comes to the "only posting when they lose", I don't think it's always true, I think some people post more when they lose but I still see them posting here during off days and wins. I'll say I don't see a group of people posting more only when the team wins, though.

 

[Jetabre]

Heinola looked pretty lost out there last night.

 

[Buffdog]

I just wish that even the posters who tend to hold a more negative view towards the team would come in after losses and actually discuss WHY the team lost instead of just complaining about the fact that the team is shitty and the coach is shirty and the GM is shitty.

That game last night was very much winnable, but the PK let them down, and to some degree the PP also.

There's also the fact that Detroit started with 2 PPS in the first 5 or 6 minutes, which prevents your skilled guys from getting into a groove. Then Morrissey was hit in the face, and then Miller leaves the game. That causes mishmashes of D pairings that can be chaotic

Mix in 4 goalposts and the game doesn't go our way. Just based on probabilities, games like that are bound to happen to teams throughout the season (and sometimes stretches) and it's nothing to get alarmed about.

I'm sure someone will come along and accuse me of "making excuses", but yeah. Sometimes teams lose and there are little bullshit reasons why. It's hockey

 

[Adam da bomb]

I just wish that even the posters who tend to hold a more negative view towards the team would come in after losses and actually discuss WHY the team lost instead of just complaining about the fact that the team is shitty and the coach is shirty and the GM is shitty.

That game last night was very much winnable, but the PK let them down, and to some degree the PP also.

There's also the fact that Detroit started with 2 PPS in the first 5 or 6 minutes, which prevents your skilled guys from getting into a groove. Then Morrissey was hit in the face, and then Miller leaves the game. That causes mishmashes of D pairings that can be chaotic

Mix in 4 goalposts and the game doesn't go our way. Just based on probabilities, games like that are bound to happen to teams throughout the season (and sometimes stretches) and it's nothing to get alarmed about.

I'm sure someone will come along and accuse me of "making excuses", but yeah. Sometimes teams lose and there are little bullshit reasons why. It's hockey

Feels weird the jets hit so many posts as it just felt like the offense never got going, which is ridiculous, because even then just a couple of inches and we would have multiple goals. Although, that is not uncommon and every team’s fans get the what if feelings every game.

 

[voyageur]

Great post. People demand 1st line production while getting 2nd line PP, and 3rd line minutes with a 4th line Center.

Most protected forward line in terms of zone starts and matchups. If you can't score against 3rd lines at home with the 2nd most o-zone starts there is an issue.

How serious is Miller's injury?

 

[Adam da bomb]

Most protected forward line in terms of zone starts and matchups. If you can't score against 3rd lines at home with the 2nd most o-zone starts there is an issue.

How serious is Miller's injury?

On paper our 2nd line should be one of the strongest in league. Few teams have a player as strong as Ehlers on their 2nd line.
So, is it just the wrong combination?
Teams with good 2c don’t have wingers like ehlers on line.

 

[voyageur]

Chib has 0 points in last 5 games and 2 in his last 11. That deserves a call up?

From what I saw when he was up yes. He got a point last game. Before that he was playing with Zhilkin i believe who hasn't emerged as much of a prospect. PP is still run by Dawson Barteaux.

On paper our 2nd line should be one of the strongest in league. Few teams have a player as strong as Ehlers on their 2nd line.
So, is it just the wrong combination?
Teams with good 2c don’t have wingers like ehlers on line.

Colorado has Rantanen on their 2nd line. Middlestadt got demoted there until the game he scored the GWG against us. I think Namestnikov's stats are better than Middlestadt's.

 

[Adam da bomb]

From what I saw when he was up yes. He got a point last game. Before that he was playing with Zhilkin i believe who hasn't emerged as much of a prospect. PP is still run by Dawson Barteaux.


Colorado has Rantanen on their 2nd line. Middlestadt got demoted there until the game he scored the GWG against us. I think Namestnikov's stats are better than Middlestadt's.

I thought rantanen played on their first line with Mack.
Google told me it was middlestadt, Ross Colton lehk. So, typical 2nd line a stronger 2c and then two wingers worse than ehlers and perfetti. Every 2nd line generally has one guy who is supposed to carry the load, rantanen, in our case Ehlers and 2 secondary weaker pieces.

 

[Jets 31]

Jets take an L. The PGT:
View attachment 956580

Now that's funny.

 

[TS Quint]

ok, let me recalculate, 2 + 2 +2 carry the 1, yup, still didn't put up a point, it's not just this game, he has like 4 goals in his past 33 games lol, but let me guess, it's that old dino coach boweness

Im with all those people who hate the Jets coaching and want that coach from the Stars who integrated so much young talent into their line up like Heiskenen, Robertson and Hintz. What was his name again?

 

[NA Hockey]

From what I saw when he was up yes. He got a point last game. Before that he was playing with Zhilkin i believe who hasn't emerged as much of a prospect. PP is still run by Dawson Barteaux.


Colorado has Rantanen on their 2nd line. Middlestadt got demoted there until the game he scored the GWG against us. I think Namestnikov's stats are better than Middlestadt's.

AHL stats say the last point Chibs got was December 7th.

 

[BoneDocUK]

To those suggesting substituting Perfetti and/or Namestnikov from the 2B line, may I suggest looking at that line as a shutdown line similar to the (2A) Lowry line .....and the problem goes away!!

PNE has allowed 6 goals against all season. Six! The Lowry line (NLA) has allowed 7 GA, while the Scheifele line (CSV) has allowed 24 GA. The difference really is, that the Scheifele line is high event (lots of goals for but also against), while the Namestnikov line is low event (less goals for but even fewer against). Both Namestnikov and Perfetti have excellent defensive awareness and positioning, and works well with Ehlers' oneman raids.
I am aware, they have primarily offensive zone starts (similar to the Scheifele line), while the opposite is true for the Lowry line, but with regards to playstyle they share the same ability to shutdown the opposition.

Be careful what you wish for! Instead of Namestnikov/Perfetti you may end up with defensively worse players.

Obviously, I would love more production from Perfetti/Namestnikov, but I am sure, Perfetti will learn to hit the goal instead of the absurd number of goal posts.

Interesting post -- thanks for the analysis. I think many have noticed some strong defensive and possession play from this line, but it's always useful to see some of that quantified.

I wonder if that line needs a flat-out shooter to take that last pass and turn it into a shot on net -- haven't been able to watch as many games this year but when I've tried to watch that line carefully I've noticed plenty of creation but not often from ideal shooting positions. Ehlers has a wicked shot and we've seen some snipes from Cole and Names at times, but maybe there's an argument for letting Perfetti shift to centre to open up more ice for Nik and to then provide shooting lanes for he and Ehlers and rely on Names more for digging out pucks and feeding them in.

Perfetti has always played like a centre, and given his IQ, D play and passing his relative lack of speed may be less an issue there. Names has done a good job there but can miss setups another player might convert. Now seems like a good time to try it out. given the schedule and run of games. I'd also look at bringing Chibby back up, maybe rotating him through alongside Barron, etc. Provides some scoring spark and also that element of disruption that can fluster, draw penalties and buy time for linemates.

Anyway, this team has shown all year that they can turn things around, and I'd bet on them doing so, especially with Samberg and Fleury looking like returning soon.

 

[TS Quint]

Seems like no matter what Stan does he will never be well liked around here. Cross-bar, big hits assists, yeah but he cost us kov, chis, and soon Heinola.

To be fair, it was Heinola who cost the Jets Chisholm.

 

[mondo3]

Now this could be totally wrong, but has Connor’s production dropped ever since the black eye incident?

 

[gojetsgo]

Now this could be totally wrong, but has Connor’s production dropped ever since the black eye incident?

he has 15 points in his last 10 games

 

[Moloch]

I just wish that even the posters who tend to hold a more negative view towards the team would come in after losses and actually discuss WHY the team lost instead of just complaining about the fact that the team is shitty and the coach is shirty and the GM is shitty.

That game last night was very much winnable, but the PK let them down, and to some degree the PP also.

There's also the fact that Detroit started with 2 PPS in the first 5 or 6 minutes, which prevents your skilled guys from getting into a groove. Then Morrissey was hit in the face, and then Miller leaves the game. That causes mishmashes of D pairings that can be chaotic

Mix in 4 goalposts and the game doesn't go our way. Just based on probabilities, games like that are bound to happen to teams throughout the season (and sometimes stretches) and it's nothing to get alarmed about.

I'm sure someone will come along and accuse me of "making excuses", but yeah. Sometimes teams lose and there are little bullshit reasons why. It's hockey

couldnt have said it better

 

[Buffdog]

On paper our 2nd line should be one of the strongest in league. Few teams have a player as strong as Ehlers on their 2nd line.
So, is it just the wrong combination?
Teams with good 2c don’t have wingers like ehlers on line.

I guess it depends how you define "strong". They could be chipping in more at 5v5 but they aren't hurting us

Feels weird the jets hit so many posts as it just felt like the offense never got going, which is ridiculous, because even then just a couple of inches and we would have multiple goals. Although, that is not uncommon and every team’s fans get the what if feelings every game.

The Jets had probably 6 really good stretches of extended O-zone time where the wings were running around badly

 

[Jets 31]

I just wish that even the posters who tend to hold a more negative view towards the team would come in after losses and actually discuss WHY the team lost instead of just complaining about the fact that the team is shitty and the coach is shirty and the GM is shitty.

That game last night was very much winnable, but the PK let them down, and to some degree the PP also.

There's also the fact that Detroit started with 2 PPS in the first 5 or 6 minutes, which prevents your skilled guys from getting into a groove. Then Morrissey was hit in the face, and then Miller leaves the game. That causes mishmashes of D pairings that can be chaotic

Mix in 4 goalposts and the game doesn't go our way. Just based on probabilities, games like that are bound to happen to teams throughout the season (and sometimes stretches) and it's nothing to get alarmed about.

I'm sure someone will come along and accuse me of "making excuses", but yeah. Sometimes teams lose and there are little bullshit reasons why. It's hockey

Totally agree, playing with 5 defenseman basically all game is going to eventually tire a team out, any team , not just the Jets.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I guess it depends how you define "strong". They could be chipping in more at 5v5 but they aren't hurting us

View attachment 956655


The Jets had probably 6 really good stretches of extended O-zone time where the wings were running around badly

But, not hurting us is different than winning us games.
The way I picture it is the first line matches up with theirs and draws even, our Lowry line neutralizes their 2nd line and Ehlers and Perfetti should be feasting on their 3rd line and winning us the game.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Now this could be totally wrong, but has Connor’s production dropped ever since the black eye incident?

It seems like goal scorers are streaky that he was in a hot period, now a cold period, but, if history has taught us anything he should get hot again.

He has always got his points so hoping more points from him imo is not where points will come from. Though by his standards he has been cold. It is super frustrating.

 

[DRW204]

But, not hurting us is different than winning us games.
The way I picture it is the first line matches up with theirs and draws even, our Lowry line neutralizes their 2nd line and Ehlers and Perfetti should be feasting on their 3rd line and winning us the game.

Becuase 2/3s of the second line are playing below that level
Namestnikov is usually a bottom 6 guy with one 40 pt season under his belt nearly 10 years ago which was with Kucherov. he was fine at 2c last year but this is closer to his career. Think about that..... the one time he hit 40+ pts was primarily next to Kucherov.

And perfetti other than a hot couple months to start last year has been a sub 0.5 ppg player since.

I think they can get away with one of Perfetti or Namestnikov on that line if they're the line's third best player rather than second.

 

[Buffdog]

But, not hurting us is different than winning us games.
The way I picture it is the first line matches up with theirs and draws even, our Lowry line neutralizes their 2nd line and Ehlers and Perfetti should be feasting on their 3rd line and winning us the game.

I agree. I think you need an upgrade on Names... he's a great Swiss Army knife but we're asking him to do some heavy chopping, so to speak.

The play early to the back door last night was an example. It was a great save, but him burying that would have changed the early part of the game

 

[Jets 31]

The Jets lost the last 2 games because i didn't post our lucky girl, all my fault i apologize and it won't happen again.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I agree. I think you need an upgrade on Names... he's a great Swiss Army knife but we're asking him to do some heavy chopping, so to speak.

The play early to the back door last night was an example. It was a great save, but him burying that would have changed the early part of the game

I was about to edit my previous point of I don’t even expect our first line to come out even as they have no superstar like a MacKinnon so will lose that competition.

I mean they have elite players. Kc is elite at scoring, but, he doesn’t have that take over the game aspect of a superstar just consistently gets his points.

I just keep thinking 2nd line just needs a Villardi/bunting/ Lowry player. Good defensively, digs pucks out of corner and then gets it to Ehlers who creates play or scores or even banks it off 3rd guy.

That he can do it the way Kane did for Chicago. I probably have unrealistic expectations of Ehlers. I just see Malkin making work in Pittsburgh with bums. Or many other superstars around the league getting good money on second line because the team can cheap out on their linemates and know they’ll continue to produce.

Also last year when we were on our streak ajf, Toni contributed points from 4th line on a more regular basis.

 

[Buffdog]

I was about to edit my previous point of I don’t even expect our first line to come out even as they have no superstar like a MacKinnon so will lose that competition.

I mean they have elite players. Kc is elite at scoring, but, he doesn’t have that take over the game aspect of a superstar just consistently gets his points.

I just keep thinking 2nd line just needs a Villardi/bunting/ Lowry player. Good defensively, digs pucks out of corner and then gets it to Ehlers who creates play or scores or even banks it off 3rd guy.

That he can do it the way Kane did for Chicago.

I haven't been really impressed with the Ehlers - Lowry - Perfetti experiments so far, but they haven't had enough minutes to really gel and develop an identity

When Arniel started doing that, I wondered if Lowry would be the "in house" 2C upgrade then they go out and find a an upgrade at 3C that doesn't cost them their 1st round pick

The issue with that is what kind of 3rd line are you left with? Do you try to trade for a Lowry clone, like say Frederic? Or do you try to make it more of an offensive line with a centre to compliment Nino and AI?

Then your 4th line is a mix of Barron, Names, Appleton, Kupari and Gus