wingedwheelpod : gavrikov , byram , other dman options

[jkutswings]

Ehh... In theory, but I think it's an over simplification.

Team building isn't an NHL video game. 31 other teams are competing for the talent, UFAs have their own priorities, dreams and aspirations. And that doesn't even touch on why the hell a better player would have wanted to come to Detroit over the last 5 years.

I also, think we're not privy to everything he's attempted. Someone recently brought up the reports that he went after Carlo at the TDL and got outbid. It was widely reported he wanted Stamkos last summer. I'd be shocked if there weren't similar attempts for other players. I'd bet money he checked in on Rantanen.

You can want these kinds of moves but life isn't that simple.

Fair. But that's justification for a single particular move not happening. When you have multiple low-end additions each year for several years, that's a pretty strong trend that you're only willing to commit to that tier of player.

I just posted this in the free agency thread, but these examples apply here to show the guys in between the top and bottom tiers that I mean:

For 2025, remove Marner and Bennett as the top forwards and remove Gavrikov and Ekblad on defense. There are still guys who are under 30 and would absolutely improve the roster (Ehlers, Boeser, Provorov, Fabbro).

And that doesn't count the handful of significant RFAs out there (Dobson, Bouchard, Byram, McTavish, Romanov, Hague, Rossi).

The point is: I find it very hard to believe that absolutely zero meaningful players would come to Detroit...if they're willing to pay more than KMart blue light special prices and terms.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

I've repeatedly given Yzerman kudos for his first round picks. I'm just tired of the scrub players he keeps adding in free agency. There's a lot of room in between going all in prematurely and repeatedly adding lousy plugs.

If this summer he makes an impactful trade or ponies up for a better quality of UFA, I'll say it's a good move. But if he keeps bargain bin shopping to tread water for yet another year or two, I'll keep saying that's bad decision making.

I been shitting on all his free agent signings as well since day 1. I even didn’t like the debrincat trade when it happened only because I thought that 1st round pick could have been where it is this year but bruins held on a few more yrs before they broke down so I was obviously wrong there

We can’t force people to come here and Yzerman didn’t want to give bigger $ and 7 yr terms to other scraps so he settled for 5x5 a few times and 2 yr deals to holl tarasenko etc..

All the rookies he drafted weren’t ready outside of raymond and seider and they just been in the league a few years so no one was going to come here and Yzerman wasn’t gonna go big game hunting at that time.

If it’s not this summer it’ll be next but he’s making moves now and we’ll be adding asp nygard cossa lombardi etc.. by 2026 season. I’d rather go the trade route there’s not much in free agency so don’t expect miracles

Marner goes elsewhere who else you want? Ehlers? Ppl will complain after he’s never healthy ... I’d be targeting likes of lafraniere,Romanov etc.. who can be here longterm or a big body like kreider who’s only short term so won’t affect us longterm. We need a guy who can crash the net, already heard somewhere leafs were interested in him

To be honest part of me is hoping he signs scrubs to one year deals so we can be in the running for McKenna Stenberg, that Canadian Dman forget his name and then sign Connor etc.. in 2026 and another part of me wants to just go for it now but i don’t want to just sign anyone cause fans are fed up of losing

Once we get in the playoffs I never want to look back again for a nice long while

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

Fair. But that's justification for a single particular move not happening. When you have multiple low-end additions each year for several years, that's a pretty strong trend that you're only willing to commit to that tier of player.

I just posted this in the free agency thread, but these examples apply here to show the guys in between the top and bottom tiers that I mean:

For 2025, remove Marner and Bennett as the top forwards and remove Gavrikov and Ekblad on defense. There are still guys who are under 30 and would absolutely improve the roster (Ehlers, Boeser, Provorov, Fabbro).

And that doesn't count the handful of significant RFAs out there (Dobson, Bouchard, Byram, McTavish, Romanov, Hague, Rossi).

The point is: I find it very hard to believe that absolutely zero meaningful players would come to Detroit...if they're willing to pay more than KMart blue light special prices and terms.

He cap space is going up for everyone so getting an rfa through an offersheet is a pipe dream. Been wishing for mctavish for a while but ducks just won’t let him go. Maybe Hague if you offer 7.5 x 7 but I wouldn’t. I think he can be had by trade and he’s been a target of mine with Romanov for a long time

Bouchard if you offer him 11 I think edm let’s him go but we’d be shitting on him for his defensive play. Anyways getting someone through an offersheet is near impossible

 

[jkutswings]

He cap space is going up for everyone so getting an rfa through an offersheet is a pipe dream. Been wishing for mctavish for a while but ducks just won’t let him go. Maybe Hague if you offer 7.5 x 7 but I wouldn’t. I think he can be had by trade and he’s been a target of mine with Romanov for a long time

Bouchard if you offer him 11 I think edm let’s him go but we’d be shitting on him for his defensive play. Anyways getting someone through an offersheet is near impossible

I don't see Bouchard or McTavish as realistic for exactly the reasons you note. But there are other interesting situations that might lead to guys being more suceptible than expected:

What do the Islanders do now that they have the #1 pick? Do any players get moved as part of a retool?

How does Vegas approach this summer after several years of being aggressive?

What does Buffalo do after spinning their wheels for so long?

Yes, offer sheets are rare. And the cap going up should make them even less common. But I think there are still enough rocks to turn over that a deal could be found if somebody is really looking.

 

[SirloinUB]

Fair. But that's justification for a single particular move not happening. When you have multiple low-end additions each year for several years, that's a pretty strong trend that you're only willing to commit to that tier of player.

I just posted this in the free agency thread, but these examples apply here to show the guys in between the top and bottom tiers that I mean:

For 2025, remove Marner and Bennett as the top forwards and remove Gavrikov and Ekblad on defense. There are still guys who are under 30 and would absolutely improve the roster (Ehlers, Boeser, Provorov, Fabbro).

And that doesn't count the handful of significant RFAs out there (Dobson, Bouchard, Byram, McTavish, Romanov, Hague, Rossi).

The point is: I find it very hard to believe that absolutely zero meaningful players would come to Detroit...if they're willing to pay more than KMart blue light special prices and terms.

I definitely support a move in the vein of what you are discussing but I also its important to have enough nuance to understand that it simply might not work out. We also need to be responsible and shouldn't overpay. IMO, that next tier is going to get contracts that they can't live up to...

I also, don't think we had enough of a foundation to make an aggressive high cost move until now. I mean prior to this year we had two young players making meaningful contributions. This year, that number doubled to 4, maybe 5/6 depending on how you view Soderblom/AlJo.

 

[Konnan511]

American Coney Island chili is the best and if you say otherwise I will fight you.

Whoa whoa whoa! I'm not attacking on the food chili, I'm attacking you on your thoughts of the great American restaurant chain, Chili's.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

I don't see Bouchard or McTavish as realistic for exactly the reasons you note. But there are other interesting situations that might lead to guys being more suceptible than expected:

What do the Islanders do now that they have the #1 pick? Do any players get moved as part of a retool?

How does Vegas approach this summer after several years of being aggressive?

What does Buffalo do after spinning their wheels for so long?

Yes, offer sheets are rare. And the cap going up should make them even less common. But I think there are still enough rocks to turn over that a deal could be found if somebody is really looking.

I think they add Schaefer ... rumours of marner now with Shanahan possibly going. Who knows

Vegas will definetly be agressive. Hague will need a new deal and they already have Theodore, pietrangelo etc.. I think he’s someone we can realistically target and he’d be my #1 target in a trade. I don’t know if anyone’s offering a 1st for him but a 2nd , wallinder +? Maybe throw in chiarot 50% retention to be a cheaper replacement for Vegas on a one year deal

Sabres I wouldn’t count much with them. Peterka will stay , Byram might be the only option but is he what we really need? He’s been averaging what 40 pts a year and supposedly wants 7+? I don’t think I do that. Jack quinn? I think sabres match 4 mill per offer sheet

I think the best move is through trades . Vegas makes big deals maybe Hague , Barbashev become expendable

Ken Holland wants to make moves maybe he does stupid holland stuff and signs marner and deals a byfield

Just off the top of my head if it were possible to make a deal for byfield involving debrincat I would do it in a second. Gives us a big body down the middle and Kasper can play he wing. Wouldn’t need pat kane now and he can follow his buddy in l.a

Trade for kreider and bring up nygard who I think would be able to handle himself

Kreider larkin raymond
kasper byfield nygard
Soderblom danielson copp
Mazur compher rasmussen

Don’t hate it , byfield not realistic and I know a lot of fans would scream cause we traded debrincat but I wouldn’t hate it

 

[izlez]

Whoa whoa whoa! I'm not attacking on the food chili, I'm attacking you on your thoughts of the great American restaurant chain, Chili's.

Did a search to see if I could find what this was referencing. And, you've just been randomly talking to Ogee about Chili's for years and years?


...not sure I captured the whole picture, but laughed my ass off either way

 

[jkutswings]

I also don't think we had enough of a foundation to make an aggressive high cost move until now. I mean prior to this year we had two young players making meaningful contributions. This year, that number doubled to 4, maybe 5/6 depending on how you view Soderblom/AlJo.

Agreed, but I must have a different definition of "aggressive high cost move" than most.

I see a Rantanen or a Marner as an aggressive high cost move.

I see one of the next tier of players I mentioned as part of the cost of doing business in the NHL when you don't want your roster to suck.

In hindsight, Detroit could have gone even leaner on adding vets to ensure that they picked in the top five for another year or two. But that toothpaste is well out of the tube, so if you're firmly done with the best tier of the lottery, don't add vets that stink.

 

[FMichael]

Fair. But that's justification for a single particular move not happening. When you have multiple low-end additions each year for several years, that's a pretty strong trend that you're only willing to commit to that tier of player.

I just posted this in the free agency thread, but these examples apply here to show the guys in between the top and bottom tiers that I mean:

For 2025, remove Marner and Bennett as the top forwards and remove Gavrikov and Ekblad on defense. There are still guys who are under 30 and would absolutely improve the roster (Ehlers, Boeser, Provorov, Fabbro).

And that doesn't count the handful of significant RFAs out there (Dobson, Bouchard, Byram, McTavish, Romanov, Hague, Rossi).

The point is: I find it very hard to believe that absolutely zero meaningful players would come to Detroit...if they're willing to pay more than KMart blue light special prices and terms.

If any signings/trades are made this summer - please let them be more meaningful that what we've witnessed these past handful of seasons...I get it - we're desperate for something that resembles NHL talent (while the kids mature), but damn I can only endure so much low-end quality hockey for so long.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Whoa whoa whoa! I'm not attacking on the food chili, I'm attacking you on your thoughts of the great American restaurant chain, Chili's.

Oh, yeah I forgot about that place.
I think your love of the restaurant chain chilis explains your poor judgement and love of Hronek.

 

[Konnan511]

Oh, yeah I forgot about that place.
I think your love of the restaurant chain chilis explains your poor judgement and love of Hronek.

 

[Astyanax]

Skyline.

*snicker*
*starting to break*

Ok I couldn't even get through my own post without laughing at that one.

Yeah, I live in Cincinnati now and skyline is garbage.i wouldn't feed it to a dog I hate, or any cat!!

 

[jkutswings]

Yeah, I live in Cincinnati now and skyline is garbage.i wouldn't feed it to a dog I hate, or any cat!!

Yeah. There are lots of variations on chili, and several varieties of meat sauce. But don't call yourself one thing while masquerading as another.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

Apparently Tavares wants 7-7.5 and leafs offering 5 .... anyone be against a 15 mill deal for 2 yrs? Kane would have to drop a line

Kasper larkin raymond
Debrincat Tavares nygard?

 

[jkutswings]

Apparently Tavares wants 7-7.5 and leafs offering 5 .... anyone be against a 15 mill deal for 2 yrs? Kane would have to drop a line

Kasper larkin raymond
Debrincat Tavares nygard?

He's 34 years old. Why would I want to add a player that could not possibly have a future with the team when they're in Cup contention?

I'm 100 percent on board with a trade or a signing to move this forward. But it can't be THAT short term.

 

[deca guard]

He's 34 years old. Why would I want to add a player that could not possibly have a future with the team when they're in Cup contention?

I'm 100 percent on board with a trade or a signing to move this forward. But it can't be THAT short term.

the reason for adding a talented short term contract is 1 - he teaches kids and improves team . 2- is his CAP HIT IS GONE IN 2 YEARS WHEN WE NEED THAT SPACE FOR EDDIE / KASPER / ETC . as opposed to signing a mediocre player long term like a provorov or bennet thatll be beyond prime but still a big cap hit preventing us from locking up young guns like asp and dannysion long term like we locked up sidez n rayz . salaray cap has to be managed

 

[deca guard]

Apparently Tavares wants 7-7.5 and leafs offering 5 .... anyone be against a 15 mill deal for 2 yrs? Kane would have to drop a line

Kasper larkin raymond
Debrincat Tavares nygard?

im all for it because the cap hits gone when we need the space for kids . jt teaching kasper n dannyson how to get shots off would be excellent = kane n jt teaching shooting to youngsters is dream stuff . then there hits are gone in 2 years when the kids can then be payed with that cap space as we turn into long running contenders

 

[Gniwder]

Yeah, I live in Cincinnati now and skyline is garbage.i wouldn't feed it to a dog I hate, or any cat!!

Concept is great, but the execution is horrible. It's barely on par with high school cafeteria food. Public high school at that.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

He's 34 years old. Why would I want to add a player that could not possibly have a future with the team when they're in Cup contention?

I'm 100 percent on board with a trade or a signing to move this forward. But it can't be THAT short term.

That’s why it’s a 2 year deal. And everyone seems obsessed with just getting in the playoffs and not worried about winning so he’s perfect

Gives time for Kasper to further develop on the top line

He wants to win a cup so don’t worry I think there’s a 0% chance he’d sign here

 

[jkutswings]

the reason for adding a talented short term contract is 1 - he teaches kids and improves team . 2- is his CAP HIT IS GONE IN 2 YEARS WHEN WE NEED THAT SPACE FOR EDDIE / KASPER / ETC . as opposed to signing a mediocre player long term like a provorov or bennet thatll be beyond prime but still a big cap hit preventing us from locking up young guns like asp and dannysion long term like we locked up sidez n rayz . salaray cap has to be managed

I guess I'm just wildly more pessimistic about what Tavares would bring to the table. On this roster I'd expect him to score 40-50 points and be just another Copp/Compher meh forward. I don't see the point of spending when it's on a player that has nosedive written all over him.

 

[wingsfannnn9191]

I guess I'm just wildly more pessimistic about what Tavares would bring to the table. On this roster I'd expect him to score 40-50 points and be just another Copp/Compher meh forward. I don't see the point of spending when it's on a player that has nosedive written all over him.

You think marner will come here get 100 pts with this roster but you think Tavares who’s been a top guy for most of his career will come here and suddenly be a copp and get 40 pts ... ok

 

[deca guard]

I guess I'm just wildly more pessimistic about what Tavares would bring to the table. On this roster I'd expect him to score 40-50 points and be just another Copp/Compher meh forward. I don't see the point of spending when it's on a player that has nosedive written all over him.

my angle is we arent going to challenge with this roster yet anyway . so improve a little without spending long term cap , while jt teaches kids . im not worried about making playoffs with a non contender just to get crushed , all i care about is what are the best moves in effort to build a long term contender = save long term cap so we can long term sign our great pool of developing prospects . i dont want to waste one cent on a bennet or ehlers thatll be beyond prime when our window opens . i want that cap space ready to sign our own prospects scouted by yzerman , i believe in yzermans scouting . HE WILL BUILD A DYNASTY !

 

[jkutswings]

You think marner will come here get 100 pts with this roster but you think Tavares who’s been a top guy for most of his career will come here and suddenly be a copp and get 40 pts ... ok

Where did I say that? I guessed that Marner would score around 80 points if he came to Detroit. And he's 28, while Tavares is 34. I'd expect a decline from John on ANY roster, let alone stepping down to this one.

Subtract 20 points from each player and my 40-50 total for Tavares isn't far off without the decline.

 

[jkutswings]

my angle is we arent going to challenge with this roster yet anyway . so improve a little without spending long term cap , while jt teaches kids . im not worried about making playoffs with a non contender just to get crushed , all i care about is what are the best moves in effort to build a long term contender = save long term cap so we can long term sign our great pool of developing prospects . i dont want to waste one cent on a bennet or ehlers thatll be beyond prime when our window opens . i want that cap space ready to sign our own prospects scouted by yzerman , i believe in yzermans scouting . HE WILL BUILD A DYNASTY !

If they're not going to move it forward yet to make the playoffs and grow into contention, then don't sign anybody and just suck for a year or two to land another top five pick. Yet another 80 point season is just a waste of time with mediocre draft positioning to show for it.