Windsor Spitfires 2017-18 Season Thread (Part 1)

[ohloutsider]

Part of the problem is that their past drafting and development wasn't great. They had to move Auger a high pick to acquire Nattinen. You can say Auger was never going to develop and that's probably true but both are gone now. They had to move Carter and Burns to get Bracco. They traded a highly talented guy in Ho-Sang but McCool didn't develop precipitating acquisitions of guys like Knott/Bracco/Nattinen/Laishram. Guys like D'Amico and Henault are going to get games in the OHL how many is the question. If you think the Spits hired Evola, promoted Bowler, and hired Roeszeler just to fill spots in the organization you would be lying to yourself. Rychel knows they need to get a lot better at drafting and developing. If you were to look at the western conference Windsor isn't a top 4 drafting team in the conference, they might be 5th or right around there. There's a huge gap between the top 4 in the conference and everybody else at the moment.

^ ^^^ you never take the sanctions into account - you grade the teams as being better at drafting but never elude to the fact the Spits have lost 5 top end draft picks in the last few years - lets jump over to any of the other 19 teams and pluck their 5 best draft picks from the last few years and see where they stand???? If your going to use drafting as some kind of argument then use all of the facts not selective ones. The argument Warren is bad at drafting is weak at best considering what rounds he had no pick - not trying to defend the sanctions - the Spits lost them for a reason but don't be critical of their draft picks when they lost so many high end picks. IMO he did a great job considering his options.

 

[OHL4Life]

^ ^^^ you never take the sanctions into account - you grade the teams as being better at drafting but never elude to the fact the Spits have lost 5 top end draft picks in the last few years - lets jump over to any of the other 19 teams and pluck their 5 best draft picks from the last few years and see where they stand???? If your going to use drafting as some kind of argument then use all of the facts not selective ones. The argument Warren is bad at drafting is weak at best considering what rounds he had no pick - not trying to defend the sanctions - the Spits lost them for a reason but don't be critical of their draft picks when they lost so many high end picks. IMO he did a great job considering his options.

but we only lost like 2 picks the last two years? at this point sanctions sound be managed and delt with, it's not like we are losing 3-4 picks a year. as a fan im worried that we didn't have better 17 year old players ready to go. like I said, i can only look at oshawa and londons teams after they won, they didnt need other teams waiver cuts to fill a roster. that's not a good sign for the next few years. now we may have to force 16 year olds who may not be ready to play more then they should and hurt their development.it just seems like a bad mix of circumstances

 

[cub]

but we only lost like 2 picks the last two years? at this point sanctions sound be managed and delt with, it's not like we are losing 3-4 picks a year. as a fan im worried that we didn't have better 17 year old players ready to go. like I said, i can only look at oshawa and londons teams after they won, they didnt need other teams waiver cuts to fill a roster. that's not a good sign for the next few years. now we may have to force 16 year olds who may not be ready to play more then they should and hurt their development.it just seems like a bad mix of circumstances

I feel Windsor management is in good hands, and will have a competitive team soon enough. They have great track record. Ddozen

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Not surprised you would be negative at this time,though the evidence is pretty damaging regarding player drafting and development when you see guys like Vilardi, Sergachev, Stanley,Brown,Day,Knott, Addison, Chatfield, Dipietro, all get drafted or signed to NHL deals,with the picks they have had over the last 3 seasons can't complain about the results Mem Cup for the team,contracts for many players,in fact 4 D signed deals this year alone,there isn't a fan except you and maybe one or 2 others who can complain about the results.
Roezler basically replaces Letowski,
Evola replaces Teakle who couldn't go full time,and Bowler gets added duties,they have added to their scouting staff as well.
I liked what I saw at camp and throughout the exhibition weekend,still the best in the league in goaltending,the young D looks promising and I am not concerned, willing to be patient moving forward,the Euros look real good,ditto MacDougall, Playfair looks like he will play a regular role this year,some nice looking youngsters upfront, here and not far away, including Brimmer, Desanctis, Taylor, Paterson,Andrews, D'amico,Frasca.
Bottom line to me 3 Mem Cups in 9 years is something no one in the league can match up to,most would kill for 1 let lone 3, including your bridesmaid Hounds.
I can think of no other team losing potentially 5 underage players,I am including Stanley,plus Brown, Vilardi,Day and Sergachev from last year and be considered a top team.
You honestly think that SSM, Owen Sound, London or Kitchener were to lose that many they would be contenders,I doubt it,is what it is, certainly hampers rebuilding,but hey that's what development does right.

This is a drafting and developing discussion. If you want to talk about the development of certain players fine. They didn't draft Brown/Addison/Knott/Day and they cost valuable assets moving forward which just boils down to robbing peter to pay paul.

You're so disingenuous it's ridiculous you talk about 3 Memorial Cups but ignore 4 playoff wins in 6 seasons. Since you love to pick and choose certain metrics I would appreciate it moving forward if you tell me what's fair game to discuss and what isn't fair game to discuss because you love to decide what points are valid and not.

You mean the year the Soo graduated Tolchinsky/DeAngelo/Ritchie/Bunting/Bailey/Moore/Nurse and still came back the next year and won a playoff series? Don't give me that stuff after the Soo lost that talent they did something Windsor hasn't done in 6 seasons.

Stop acting like the Spits are the only team who ever loses talent. Please tell me what we can discuss about the team this year and what we can't since you try and shout down anyone who doesn't share your view.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

^ ^^^ you never take the sanctions into account - you grade the teams as being better at drafting but never elude to the fact the Spits have lost 5 top end draft picks in the last few years - lets jump over to any of the other 19 teams and pluck their 5 best draft picks from the last few years and see where they stand???? If your going to use drafting as some kind of argument then use all of the facts not selective ones. The argument Warren is bad at drafting is weak at best considering what rounds he had no pick - not trying to defend the sanctions - the Spits lost them for a reason but don't be critical of their draft picks when they lost so many high end picks. IMO he did a great job considering his options.

The sanctions only have an impact on the 1st round pick they lost in 2016 for this current cycle. People act like the sanctions were a death sentence for the organization it became that way because the team treated as such. Having picks taken away doesn't preclude you from still drafting well. You just need to have good scouts to find those players, maybe move some players to get other picks to use in those years.

In 2015 here are 4 players that were selected within 7 picks after Verity. Caamano/Hague/Bunnaman/Katchouk, all 4 NHL draft picks and all have signed I believe which some people really value. The Spits took Keller 40th overall that's not on sanctions that's on the Spits for not getting him to report.

So in 2015 they had their 1st rounder and 2 2nds why didn't they hit it out of the park? Stanley good 1st round pick after that it was really bad.

If Staois isn't up to snuff as a 1st round pick is that fair to blame the scouts and Rychel?

 

[OHL4Life]

You honestly think that SSM, Owen Sound, London or Kitchener were to lose that many they would be contenders,I doubt it,is what it is, certainly hampers rebuilding,but hey that's what development does right.

all those teams cut 17 year old players who would have made our team better, isnt that better drafting? like I said, the last time ohl teams won the cup they didnt need to rely on other teams cuts to fill the roster. I don't care about you and razars complaining at each other and twisting stats, I'm just looking at the lineup right now, we dropped them all by not having better 17 yr olds to come in and take roster spots. no team is perfect, it's ok to say we screwed something up, I just worry that we will have to wait another year because we don't have the prospect depth to step into the lineup.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

all those teams cut 17 year old players who would have made our team better, isnt that better drafting? like I said, the last time ohl teams won the cup they didnt need to rely on other teams cuts to fill the roster. I don't care about you and razars complaining at each other and twisting stats, I'm just looking at the lineup right now, we dropped them all by not having better 17 yr olds to come in and take roster spots. no team is perfect, it's ok to say we screwed something up, I just worry that we will have to wait another year because we don't have the prospect depth to step into the lineup.

You will probably have to wait another 2+ years. Those 19 year old fa's are going to play games just as a couple of those kids will play. The biggest thing that could move this rebuild along a little quicker and by that a little is if when/if they move DiPietro/Brown/Vilardi. Maybe you get another 16 year old from 2017, maybe you get a top tier 17 year old from the 2016 draft. Of course last year the only 16 year old that was dealt at the deadline was McShane. Saginaw all they got in return were picks for Stephens. Kitchener was able to get picks a couple players and Stanley(1 yr) for Bracco. If all the Spits can get are picks it will be a 2-3 year rebuild.

 

[OHL4Life]

You will probably have to wait another 2+ years. Those 19 year old fa's are going to play games just as a couple of those kids will play. The biggest thing that could move this rebuild along a little quicker and by that a little is if when/if they move DiPietro/Brown/Vilardi. Maybe you get another 16 year old from 2017, maybe you get a top tier 17 year old from the 2016 draft. Of course last year the only 16 year old that was dealt at the deadline was McShane. Saginaw all they got in return were picks for Stephens. Kitchener was able to get picks a couple players and Stanley(1 yr) for Bracco. If all the Spits can get are picks it will be a 2-3 year rebuild.

if they trade dipietro brown vilardi this year, they can jump start it.

i will give the new guys benefit of the doubt, some guys say bowler was more of a friends with the savages hire, not sure that fair, I just hope they know they can't win this year and maximize vet trades.

 

[OHLTG]

but we only lost like 2 picks the last two years?

When you lose multiple first-and-second round picks, it's going to hurt.

it's not like we are losing 3-4 picks a year.

Would you rather lose 3-4 mid-round picks or a 1st round pick?

The sanctions only have an impact on the 1st round pick they lost in 2016 for this current cycle.

Not necessarily. If we had the first round from Ryan Moore's year, things may have shaped out different given the player would have been a 97. You might not deal Carter and it's looking much different now.

People act like the sanctions were a death sentence for the organization it became that way because the team treated as such. Having picks taken away doesn't preclude you from still drafting well. You just need to have good scouts to find those players, maybe move some players to get other picks to use in those years.

Death sentence? No. Hurt? Definitely. You take away multiple high-end picks from a club and you're going to have issues. It's inevitable. Sure, drafting NHL-potential talent in the later rounds would be helpful, but it's not realistic every year.

like I said, the last time ohl teams won the cup they didnt need to rely on other teams cuts to fill the roster.

I'd say DiGiacinto, Culina, Chatfield, and McEneny worked out pretty well for us. People can criticize if they want but picking up productive free agents has been a staple of the Spitfires for a while now.

 

[punch1943]

Vilardi to miss L.A. Kings Rookie Camp

#LAKings announce 2017 first-rounder Gabriel Vilardi will miss rookie camp due to a back sprain.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

#LAKings announce 2017 first-rounder Gabriel Vilardi will miss rookie camp due to a back sprain.

He's also missing the main training camp as well.

 

[OHL4Life]

DiGiacinto, Culina, Chatfield, and McEneny worked out pretty well for us. People can criticize if they want but picking up productive free agents has been a staple of the Spitfires for a while now.

there's a very big difference between guys who sign out out of midget and are underrated and guys who are 19 and cut from other teams.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Spits

there's a very big difference between guys who sign out out of midget and are underrated and guys who are 19 and cut from other teams.

Actually Chatfield was signed as an 18 year old and McEneny was signed as a 19 year after being waived from the Q.

 

[OHL4Life]

Actually Chatfield was signed as an 18 year old and McEneny was signed as a 19 year after being waived from the Q.

And McEneny was a decent 6/7 on a good team. the kids where not good enough for average teams last year, whats wrong with being upset we dont have better 17 year old in the system?

 

[hockeylegend11]

Rayzor

You got it wrong in 2015, they drafted Vilardi in the 1st, Dipietro in the 2nd and Sergachev in the 1st in the Euro draft, that's good drafting and was huge in winning another cup.And they won by the way without the benefit of a 1st Rd pick for trade or play, something u said would be difficult, course I pointed out the same in 2009,when Fowler who was picked in 2008, and didn't play.
Bottom line for me is you can complain about drafting,yet they have won twice now without the benefit of a 1st rounder,and 3 times when a player has graduated early, Fischer, Loktionov and Bailey.
No other team has done this,won a cup under sanctions,or players leaving early 3 times.As in Oshawa with their win didn't lose a guy early,nor did London in the 2 times they won.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Spits

And McEneny was a decent 6/7 on a good team. the kids where not good enough for average teams last year, whats wrong with being upset we dont have better 17 year old in the system?

And before they got Day and Sergachev he was a decent 4

 

[hockeylegend11]

Spits

And McEneny was a decent 6/7 on a good team. the kids where not good enough for average teams last year, whats wrong with being upset we dont have better 17 year old in the system?

Don't see your issue with 17 year olds in system, when Angle, Playfair, Corcoran,plus Baier who was drafted in the 10th will be on the club.
When u consider they did not have a selection in the 1st,3rd,5th,7,8,9 in 2016 draft,this is not bad.
Also they traded for McDougall a 1
7 year old whom they rated in the
1st,has played very well,offered a contract to 17 year old Hunter Carrick and he turned it down, other players they may have been attracted to maybe 17 year old Americans who can't be sent to B, compounds things.Toss in the fact
of the uncertainties of the Big 4,Brown, Vilardi, Sergachev and Day,all underagers,and one should why they are looking at players from everywhere,they signed an o/a from the Q in Jake Smith, knowing Laishram wasn't coming back,plus looking at Larionov,Latta and Mizzi,I see no problem myself.The have
signed 4-16 year olds,2D and 2F, and believe me there were 3-5 more impressive ones at camp,5 players from the 2015 draft will be on the team,Purboo, Vilardi, Dipietro,Sirman, Stevenson,they have traded Auger and Carter,got assets to help win a cup.
Should also note Windsor had no picks in the 2nd,3rd and 4th in this year's draft,but still signed guys from 1,5,6,7.
I see no real concerns at this time,Both Euros look good, goaltending best in the league,a young D,4 rookies,u should enjoy the rebuild.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

And McEneny was a decent 6/7 on a good team. the kids where not good enough for average teams last year, whats wrong with being upset we dont have better 17 year old in the system?

There's nothing wrong with that view. Mizzi has been waived by a couple teams Hamilton/Cape Breton. Same can be said for Larionov even though one person did chalk it up to the inability to stay healthy which is fair. Latta who didn't perform well in Sarnia either. The narrative this year is rebuild and that's partially right. Next year if those 3 aren't around hopefully replaced by more talented guys you should ask the question why those 3 were even around in a rebuild. They're desperately trying to find veterans to hopefully sneak into the playoffs, that's what I've been told as well.

 

[OHLTG]

there's a very big difference between guys who sign out out of midget and are underrated and guys who are 19 and cut from other teams.

Windsor had success with both. DiGi was young when Windsor signed him; McEneny was older. Chatfield/Culina were in-between.

And McEneny was a decent 6/7 on a good team. the kids where not good enough for average teams last year, whats wrong with being upset we dont have better 17 year old in the system?

McEneny was a solid 4/5 guy on our team. He just got bumped down after acquisitions.

Legend - what happened with Hunter Carrick? He turned down a contract??

Next year if those 3 aren't around hopefully replaced by more talented guys you should ask the question why those 3 were even around in a rebuild.

Experience. Leadership.

 

[SpItFiReZ]

Why did Carrick turn down a deal after being so excited about the trade?

 

[hockeylegend11]

Yes, apparently Carrick turned down a contract offered by Windsor, spoke to him after blue/ white game, said he was going to think about it,at the time not sure if it meant going home as I don't think his parents were here,he didn't make the trip or the practice the day Windsor left for Buffalo.
If he is not going to show,why not make a deal with,his brother played in Plymouth which is now Flint,Joe Stephan was in Plymouth with Carrick's brother in Plymouth,maybe something can work here, Spits will save a 4th round pick if he doesn't suit up for Windsor.

 

[ohloutsider]

May be old news but I see that Nick Ebert has signed a KHL deal - interesting where some players end up playing.

 

[Crease Master]

I don't think Windsor's drafting has been bad, they did just win a cup thanks to guys like Stanley, Vilardi, Luchuk, Sergachev and DiPietro who were all Windsor drafted. I think it's foolish to pretend the sanctions haven't impacted Windsor's ability to replenish the roster with young talent, the direct price of losing what should be a top player for each sanctioned pick is steep to begin with, but then to compensate you then end up trading more picks to get players who can replace them. That being said, their drafting hasn't been perfect. There have been plenty of misses for sure, your Grant Webermins and such that give Rayzor an opportunity to make a decent case for questioning things, but it's not enough to say that it's poor or even average. Windsor is still an above average drafting team.

 

[hockeylegend11]

Spits

I don't think Windsor's drafting has been bad, they did just win a cup thanks to guys like Stanley, Vilardi, Luchuk, Sergachev and DiPietro who were all Windsor drafted. I think it's foolish to pretend the sanctions haven't impacted Windsor's ability to replenish the roster with young talent, the direct price of losing what should be a top player for each sanctioned pick is steep to begin with, but then to compensate you then end up trading more picks to get players who can replace them. That being said, their drafting hasn't been perfect. There have been plenty of misses for sure, your Grant Webermins and such that give Rayzor an opportunity to make a decent case for questioning things, but it's not enough to say that it's poor or even average. Windsor is still an above average drafting team.

Solid post,and yes Grant Webermin drafted in 2010, didn't pan though the same year did acquire fellow 1st rounders in separate deals Nick Ebert and Kerby Rychel.
I am sure every team has had a 1st rounder who didn't pan out.

 

[OHL4Life]

Don't see your issue with 17 year olds in system, when Angle, Playfair, Corcoran,plus Baier who was drafted in the 10th will be on the club.
When u consider they did not have a selection in the 1st,3rd,5th,7,8,9 in 2016 draft,this is not bad.
Also they traded for McDougall a 1
7 year old whom they rated in the
1st,has played very well

right but only 3? most teams get 5-6 per year. if they didnt have the picks, why not? they knew they needed 17 year olds coming in this year, plus baier is a backup goalie, im not sure thats really that important. maybe he becomes more, but an 18 year old backup when your starter is 18? thats iffy, especially considering that dipietro will get over 50 games.

im surprised they say mcdougall was a 1st, hope they are right and have no reason do doubt htem, but usually those guys dont commit to places like umass, they go to michigan. problem is warren says every kid he signs is great and most never live up to the hype.