Player Discussion William Nylander

[Racer88]

You state the obvious.

There is no debate that a goal has higher value.

Of course but there appears to be with some. Some will go to any length to prop their guy up

 

[Stephen]

You state the obvious.

There is no debate that a goal has higher value.

The gold standard is aggregate points because you want your superstar player to score goals but also have the assists totals as receipts for facilitating those around him.

Goals on their own are more important than assists, but goal scorers are not necessarily as important as facilitators who can make use of teammates and turn them into goal scoring machines.

 

[ULF_55]

The gold standard is aggregate points because you want your superstar player to score goals but also have the assists totals as receipts for facilitating those around him.

Goals on their own are more important than assists, but goal scorers are not necessarily as important as facilitators who can make use of teammates and turn them into goal scoring machines.

No doubt assists have value.

Being able to pass the puck helps the finishers do their job, like the nurse handing the instrument to the surgeon. With luck the surgeon is Matthews not Kampf.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Some will go to any length to prop their guy up

Yeah, like dismissing the value of playmaking, against all evidence.

 

[ZEBROA]

If you pass the puck to Tavares or Matthews who would you bet on to score?

Nylander makes passes too. If the player is Matthews the chance of a assist to Nylander increase, big time vs Holmberg. Or kampf or even Tavares.

 

[Kiwi]

No doubt assists have value.

Being able to pass the puck helps the finishers do their job, like the nurse handing the instrument to the surgeon. With luck the surgeon is Matthews not Kampf.

Matthew's will do a keyhole surgery, Kampf will just chop off the leg

 

[ZEBROA]

Yeah, like dismissing the value of playmaking, against all evidence.

Great passing help the team very much. But the pass receiver is more important. Never heard of a snakebitten playmaker.

Marner is great at D to, as are Matthews. But if we only talk the playmaker part. Scoring is more important.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Marner is great at D to, as are Matthews. But if we only talk the playmaker part. Scoring is more important.

The shooting/tapping/deflecting action is not more important than everything that precedes it. Goals are not more valuable than primary assists. Studies have been done on this. People don't just get to decide that objective facts are wrong because they want to prop up the player they like.

And it's funny you mention defense, because quite frankly, a number of Nylander's goals are also "assisted" by other players playing defense for him and allowing him to cheat up ice, and they often don't even get any credit for it.

 

[ZEBROA]

The shooting/tapping/deflecting action is not more important than everything that precedes it. Goals are not more valuable than primary assists. Studies have been done on this. People don't just get to decide that objective facts are wrong because they want to prop up the player they like.

And it's funny you mention defense, because quite frankly, a number of Nylander's goals are also "assisted" by other players playing defense for him and allowing him to cheat up ice, and they often don't even get any credit for it.

It depend on wich studies you look at. Overall among all players bad as good is one thing. But i bet the studie aint made on a sniper that can score with no angels from everywere.

If Marner is valued more then Matthews the paycheck should show that.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It depend on wich studies you look at.

They all conclude pretty much the same thing. Goal = Primary assist > secondary assist.

If Marner is valued more then Matthews the paycheck should show that.

Marner isn't more valued than Matthews. Matthews is a better primary point producer than Marner. Marner is more valued than Nylander though, and the contract will reflect that, even with the overpayment to Nylander.

 

[ZEBROA]

They all conclude pretty much the same thing. Goal = Primary assist > secondary assist.

Marner isn't more valued than Matthews. Matthews is a better primary point producer than Marner. Marner is more valued than Nylander though, and the contract will reflect that, even with the overpayment to Nylander.

If you need a sniper Nylander is more valued. If you need a playmaker Marner is more valued. In a vacum Marner has more value. A elite playmaker/sniper has more value then both.

Nylander needs his playmaker and Marner need his sniper. Marner got a way better sniper then Nylander get playmakers.
Tavares is good. But the problem with a slow C as Tavares is the risk of the line getting to long apart. and Nylander having do atapt to Tavares aint the way to get the most out of every both players.

Thats why i want Marner with Nylander. Matthews need a ok playmaker , not fantastic so succede.
I belive the team would be more balanced.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If you need a sniper Nylander is more valued. If you need a playmaker Marner is more valued. In a vacum Marner has more value.

Yes, it's pretty simple.
Nylander is a better goal scorer.
Marner is a better playmaker.
Marner is a better player overall.
This is obvious. There is no debate, as they say.

 

[Confucius]

50 goal season is greater than a 50 assist season, come on it’s like arguing with flat earthers. lol!

 

[BraveCanadian]

50 goal season is greater than a 50 assist season, come on it’s like arguing with flat earthers. lol!

That is true in a vacuum but we generally compare more about players than goals.

 

[GoonieFace]

Willy can create his own offence, and can distribute as well, when given capable linemates. Marner solely relies on other people scoring goals to accumulate points. Maybe this is a result of him deferring all the time to Matthews. I would like to see more direct offence from him, as opposed to his usual curl back to the point.

 

[Dekes For Days]

50 goal season is greater than a 50 assist season

Yes, 50 goals > 50 assists, but 50 goals = 50 primary assists. 50 primary assists is actually a rarer achievement, as it has only happened 85 times in NHL history, compared to the 209 times a player has gotten 50 goals. In the cap era, that split is 14 to 35. Nylander hasn't achieved 50 goals anyway.

 

[IPS]

Yes, 50 goals > 50 assists, but 50 goals = 50 primary assists. 50 primary assists is actually a rarer achievement, as it has only happened 85 times in NHL history, compared to the 209 times a player has gotten 50 goals. In the cap era, that split is 14 to 35. Nylander hasn't achieved 50 goals anyway.

Yeah cause goals can be scored without assists there genius

Got anymore useless numbers/comparisons you'd like to share?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yeah cause goals can be scored without assists there genius

There aren't nearly enough goals that go unassisted to account for that discrepancy.

 

[Jojalu]

Yes, 50 goals > 50 assists, but 50 goals = 50 primary assists. 50 primary assists is actually a rarer achievement, as it has only happened 85 times in NHL history, compared to the 209 times a player has gotten 50 goals. In the cap era, that split is 14 to 35. Nylander hasn't achieved 50 goals anyway.

The only issue is sometimes the better play is made on the secondary assist. So you would have to go through all the tape to see what assist had more value to the play.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The only issue is sometimes the better play is made on the secondary assist. So you would have to go through all the tape to see what assist had more value to the play.

It's true that on an individual goal basis, any of the goal, primary assist, secondary assist, or something beyond that doesn't even pick up a point could be the most valuable contribution to the goal. But on average, goal = primary assist > secondary assist > no point.

 

[ACC1224]

Crazy how 'fans' will go to such great lengths to try and put down one of their own players who's leads the team in scoring by 18 points and currently sits 4th in the league.
Really can't think of anything more bizarre, so weird.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Crazy how 'fans' will go to such great lengths to try and put down one of their own players who's leads the team in scoring by 18 points and currently sits 4th in the league.
Really can't think of anything more bizarre, so weird.

View attachment 971824

Crazy how 'fans' will go to such great lengths to try and put down one of their own players who leads the team in goals by 50% and currently sits 4th in the league.
Really can't think of anything more bizarre, so weird.

 

[Stephen]

Crazy how 'fans' will go to such great lengths to try and put down one of their own players who's leads the team in scoring by 18 points and currently sits 4th in the league.
Really can't think of anything more bizarre, so weird.

View attachment 971824

Just me, but throwing out “crazy” and Marner stats in a Nylander thread does not come across as the friendliest of openings.