Will Mitch Marner become star?

Is Marner going to be a star

  • Yes

  • No

  • Already is


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
41,331
33,178
St. Paul, MN
Lets be honest here, he has 2 freaking goals. Try and sugar coat it all you want with this assist nonsense, the guy is not playing at an acceptable level. Borgman has more goals.

Will he come out of it and be fine? Probably and hopefully, but right now its unacceptable.

The term “unacceptable” seems unnecessarily harsh - we’re talking about a sophomore NHLer here, it should be expected that there’s still going to be a high degree of variance in his play. It’s not like he’s a 28 year old vet.

And as for his “assist nonsense”, the fact is, his playing style is that if a playmaker. I while yes we’d like (and should expect) his goal scoring to I’ve better in future, his main value will always come from setting up goals rather than putting them himself.
 

Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
11,156
3,662
Honestly, I don't see him play making or driving that line at all 5-vs-5. I think he changed his mindset and is trying to play like a responsible two way winger. this is the only excuse i can come up with.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,055
12,168
Leafs Home Board
Honestly, I don't see him play making or driving that line at all 5-vs-5. I think he changed his mindset and is trying to play like a responsible two way winger. this is the only excuse i can come up with.

He along with JVR are the worst +/- players on the team, and on for more goals against than for,despite Babcock sheltering them with 3rd line QofC and mainly Ozone starts to assist them defensively.
 

IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
15,694
25,123
We've yet to uncover a Kucherov, Parayko, Point, etc. with our mid round picks. Guys like Timashov, Bracco, Rasanen, and friends are still at a developmental level but don't look like they have that insane high potential. Need some guys like that if we want to be top 5.
It's yet to be seen if we've uncovered one or not.

Sometimes those guys can take a long time before they come out shining. Travis Dermott honestly might be one of them.
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,561
10,527
If you watched Nylander or Marner this year, neither are All Star players. Good players, yes but not Stars running with the assumption you are meaning All Star worthy.
 

Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
11,156
3,662
The bozak line has played the most 5-vs-5 minutes with:
  1. Borgman 153:18
  2. Gardiner 150:19 << this could maybe explain the weak GF% ?
Untitled.jpg

...........
 
Last edited:

LeafFever

Registered User
Feb 12, 2016
18,890
6,178
Exactly. People can try to spin it however they want. The proof is in the pudding. When you select a one dimensional, soft, forward at 4th OA he better be able to put the puck in the net.

Marner has a minor midget level shot and a pass first mentality. The kid is never going to crack 25 goals in this league. He doesn't have the IQ to be able to adapt.

Leafs passed on Provorov and Werenski.. 2 blue chip dmen for a guy that will never be a scorer. Inexcusable. Guys like Marner are available EVERY YEAR in FA. Stud dmen like Provorov and Werenski are not.

Goal numbers don't lie.. You either finish or you don't. 2 goals on the year. 2. Absolutely sickening.
Are you sure about that?
 

TMLeafs17

Why so salty?
Oct 5, 2017
1,696
1,014
Komarov the only forward with a negative GF%... hmmmm...

I still think he’s a good player, but he’s not good enough to be matched against other teams top two lines anymore.
 
  • Like
Reactions: usernamezrhardtodo

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
14,114
5,694
He along with JVR are the worst +/- players on the team, and on for more goals against than for,despite Babcock sheltering them with 3rd line QofC and mainly Ozone starts to assist them defensively.

Seriously?? Plays with Jvr and Bozak. Self explanatory in itself. Did you just devalue Jvr's goals... best get rid of them two once and for all. They teally are a black hole defensively when they had Kessel with them they managed to end up minus 111 combined forbthe season and all with cateer yeats at yhat point. They play for points.

Marner worked his sac off last year early with them with no help. I thonk he has been punished having to play with them.
Exactly. People can try to spin it however they want. The proof is in the pudding. When you select a one dimensional, soft, forward at 4th OA he better be able to put the puck in the net.

Marner has a minor midget level shot and a pass first mentality. The kid is never going to crack 25 goals in this league. He doesn't have the IQ to be able to adapt.

Leafs passed on Provorov and Werenski.. 2 blue chip dmen for a guy that will never be a scorer. Inexcusable. Guys like Marner are available EVERY YEAR in FA. Stud dmen like Provorov and Werenski are not.

Goal numbers don't lie.. You either finish or you don't. 2 goals on the year. 2. Absolutely sickening.

He will prove everything negative you believe about him wrong. Like i said to mess also, look who he plays with. These guys are not assist kings by any means either. One goes to the net and scores off tops and rebounds and isn't good 200 foot player. Bozak is a rush type generator of offense, not very physical. Enormous pressure on Marner to play defense with that combo.

I will just say that if you put Marnet at center( he basically plays like one anyways) its a differrnt player.

Marleau/ Marner/ kapanen
 
  • Like
Reactions: usernamezrhardtodo

Mr Hockey

Toronto
May 11, 2017
11,156
3,662
Strome will be a star, he just needs some time, he was going to easily win the AHL point title this season. Strome may end up the better player, who knows.
 

Antropovsky

Registered User
Jun 2, 2007
14,316
5,428
When I watch the game, I am unimpressed with Marner. I see a good top 6 player, but I definitely don't see a star player. Then I come to the board, read the comments about Marner and I think I must be crazy.... hopefully I end up being crazy.

I just find it hard to believe that a small player without elite speed/or breakaway speed for that matter, with a soft shot has the ability to be a star.

I see a much better skillset in Barzal to be honest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: usernamezrhardtodo

jaric1862

Registered User
Jan 14, 2014
4,032
1,779
Hindshight is 20/20. It is still way to early but we might have been better off if Hunter selected a dman instead of Marner and Debrincat instead of Korshkov.

I remember around the 2015 draft, there were a lot of rumblings that the leafs were thinking of taking provorov at 4.
 

Myopic

Registered User
Feb 26, 2017
1,229
798
Patrick Kane had 72 points as a rookie.
His 2nd year Kane had 25 goals and 45 assists for 70 points at 20 years of age.
His third season he had 30 goals and 58 assists for 88 points.



Here's a snippet from an article: RE: Sophmore Slumps


"Many factors come into play when considering the potential for a sophomore slump: The first is shooting percentage. It’s common for players to score goals on a high percentage of their shots as rookies, but suddenly see that rate fall back into the normal range in their second season, leaving fans bewildered as their goal-scoring figures plummet.
Ice time also plays a role in slumping. The more a player plays, the greater the opportunity they have to score and assist goals. If an athlete gets less playing time in their second season, it is difficult for them to maintain or improve production. However, ice time is not the sole measure of opportunity: Audiences must also consider the quality of competition and zone starts. For example, coaches will adjust and try to play to a player’s strengths or push for the development of a more complete game. Matching up with weaker opposing lines and constant starts in the offensive zone can both create misleading stats.

Teammates can play a crucial role too, especially because roster change is inevitable every year. Sometimes, chemistry developed one year can be gone the next. Alternatively, playing with an established star can help boost a player’s production.

Finally, injuries can happen at any point, impeding a player’s progress during the season. The time it takes to get back into shape can also affect the player's performance for the next season. Looking back at past cases, hockey fans can better figure out how much of a role each factor plays.

Since the 2005-06 lockout, 26 rookies have scored at least 0.7 points per game (PPG). Four of those players were from this past season (Laine, Matthews, Marner, and Nylander).
Of the 22 others, nine improved upon their rookie campaign, seven maintained their level of performance, and six meaningfully deteriorated in their second seasons. Those six were Colby Armstrong, Brad Boyes, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Marek Svatos, Jeff Skinner, and Nathan MacKinnon.

For Armstrong and Svatos, a decline in shooting percentage was responsible for the drop. The former saw his rate drop by over 10 percent after losing Sidney Crosby as a linemate. Meanwhile, the latter’s astronomically high percentage fell from nearly 20 percent to a more normal 8.4 percent as he scored 17 fewer goals in turn. Among the four breakouts from 2016-2017, however, only Laine and Matthews put forth particularly high shooting rates.

On the other hand, Nugent-Hopkins (shoulder), Skinner (concussion), and MacKinnon (broken foot) were all injured at some point during their sophomore seasons. Each individual’s performance suffered as a result, but once healthy, they returned to their rookie-season forms. Nugent-Hopkins has since turned into a two-way centre and managed 56 points in two consecutive seasons. Skinner, coming off a 37-goal season, looks much more like the prolific goal scorer many predicted after his rookie season. MacKinnon has bounced back with two consecutive 50-point years on a rebuilding Colorado Avalanche team."

Marner had .79 PPG last year.
Marner is at .59 PPG this year.
 
Last edited:

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,561
10,527
What would people say if they drafted Strome at this point if Marner with a 61 point rookie season is so bad?

Look Marner was a fine choice and I think he will be a very good player when he sorts his strength and shot issues out. He plays scared now and this is what has always been the result of players playing scared. Rushing plays, flubbing shots and missing passes. Never seen it another way when guys play scared.

If you go back a couple years I liken Marner to Advanced Kadri. Kadri was a scrawny little dude with attitude. Marner, he is a different sort of confident but I am betting he has a similar trajectory but a bit faster with better outcomes.

I felt the same about Rielly and how his progress would go vs Jakes.

Nylander I think will progress like Forsberg but better.

Matthews may hit Malkin status if we are lucky.

Lilj will be Lidstrom lite. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: usernamezrhardtodo

GoonieFace

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
7,365
7,134
The Matrix
Some folks should look up just how rare it is to have a 60 point rookie season.

In an average year, Marner would have won the Calder.

He had a great rookie year, and was absolutely the right choice where they drafted him. Fact is, he hasn't been very good this year, and he should not be exempt from criticism because he is a younger player. Sophomore slump is one thing, but 2 goals in 34 games is atrocious.
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,055
12,168
Leafs Home Board
Seriously?? Plays with Jvr and Bozak. Self explanatory in itself. Did you just devalue Jvr's goals... best get rid of them two once and for all. They really are a black hole defensively when they had Kessel with them they managed to end up minus 111 combined for bthe season and all with career years at that point. They play for points.

Marner worked his sac off last year early with them with no help. I think he has been punished having to play with them.

JVR's defensive shortcomings are offset by his goal scoring to help consider it a necessary evil as you take the good with the bad.

However at the moment with Mitch, he is not strong defensively, he is not strong physically (to win puck battles), and if he isn't scoring then, what is he really contributing to the Leafs in terms of helping them win is the question?

There in lies the problem at the moment as he goes through his sophomore slump season.

Leafs need him to get better defensively, bet bigger/stronger physically & become more consistent as a goal scorer as well. Marner is very talented offensively so there is lots to work with but there are still lots of aspects that need development at this stage.
 

Wafflewhipper

Registered User
Jan 18, 2014
14,114
5,694
JVR's defensive shortcomings are offset by his goal scoring to help consider it a necessary evil as you take the good with the bad.

However at the moment with Mitch, he is not strong defensively, he is not strong physically (to win puck battles), and if he isn't scoring then, what is he really contributing to the Leafs in terms of helping them win is the question?

There in lies the problem at the moment as he goes through his sophomore slump season.

Leafs need him to get better defensively, bet bigger/stronger physically & become more consistent as a goal scorer as well. Marner is very talented offensively so there is lots to work with but there are still lots of aspects that need development at this stage.

Matthews has even gone stone cold in goal scoring. That is a systematic problem team wide for quite a time period now.

The defensive focus Babs has demanded has caused this to a large degree.

That info is fully out there in the last few days for fans. Its really hard to guess how long this hybrid rush,dump chase style takes to ripens.

The entire team has struggled with it but this is without a doubt another evaluation period by management. They are learning what kind of team they have right now.

Matthews has 3 goals in the last 20 games injury games included. That is telling in terms of where has our offense disappeared to also.

Marner could break out of this with proper linemates. I have never been comfortable seeing him with our two worst players on the team for allowing goals against.

I do not think he has played very well. Seeing in here that he os weak, can't skate well,contributes nothing because of goal total and has no shot is amusing.

Bozak and Jvr have 13 assists combined this season. They aren't helping him score thats for sure.

I personally believe he is better as a center with Kappy now here. Marner centering Marleau and Kapanen would be a solid multi- dimensional line.

He is a product of his veteran linemates in terms of multi-dimensional play.

Getting him aeay from jvr and bozak 5vs5 can not happen soon enough for me!

Then he will begin a proper development path. I have never liked him with these two
 
  • Like
Reactions: usernamezrhardtodo

jaric1862

Registered User
Jan 14, 2014
4,032
1,779
I remember reading that Hunter had said that taking Marner was a no-brainer.
lol Obviously he's going to say that after the fact. He's not going to come out and be like "it was super close, i hope we made the right pick". It was reported that there was heavy debate prior to the draft on whether to draft a defenceman or a forward. Babcock wanted the leafs to take a dman.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad