Will Leafs Pursue Stamkos? Part 2

[Suntouchable13]

Why are people always scared of "accelerating the rebuild"? Nobody wants to be bad for years. If you can accelerate it, and it makes sense financially and asset wise, then why not?

 

[TorontoTrades]

Why are people always scared of "accelerating the rebuild"? Nobody wants to be bad for years. If you can accelerate it, and it makes sense financially and asset wise, then why not?

It's the whole cutting corners business we've experienced in the past.

difference being:

- signing Stamkos doesn't cost us any assets like in the past where we moved young pieces for older guys causing our prospect pool to be way too shallow

- Stamkos turns 26 in 2 weeks. If JVR Who is about 9 months older than him can be a piece of the rebuild there is no reason Stamkos can't be.

 

[Menzinger]

Why are people always scared of "accelerating the rebuild"? Nobody wants to be bad for years. If you can accelerate it, and it makes sense financially and asset wise, then why not?

My concern is that if Stamkos is signed and management gets an order from ownership to start to "win now", picks and prospects will begin to be flipped for older players.

I hope that doesn't happen, nor do I necessarily think it will. But the Leafs have a long history of trying to take shortcuts, and at present they finally seem to be undergoing a proper rebuild. I just want that to continue - even if they bring in Stamkos.

 

[The Missing Piece]

My concern is that if Stamkos is signed and management gets an order from ownership to start to "win now", picks and prospects will begin to be flipped for older players.

I hope that doesn't happen, nor do I necessarily think it will. But the Leafs have a long history of trying to take shortcuts, and at present they finally seem to be undergoing a proper rebuild. I just want that to continue - even if they bring in Stamkos.

That order will not come down this time or Shanny respectfully resigns.

 

[selltrade]

of course they will try and sign him, if hes available. If the leafs are competitive in 4 to 5 years hes 29/30. Roughly the same age Gilmour was when we got him and the Leafs sucked... Foolish not to...
1st line - JVR - Stamkos - Marner ,,

 

[HoweHullOrr]

My concern is that if Stamkos is signed and management gets an order from ownership to start to "win now", picks and prospects will begin to be flipped for older players.

I hope that doesn't happen, nor do I necessarily think it will. But the Leafs have a long history of trying to take shortcuts, and at present they finally seem to be undergoing a proper rebuild. I just want that to continue - even if they bring in Stamkos.

That order will not come down this time or Shanny respectfully resigns.

I asked a question before on the details of Shanahan's contract. What happens if he is fired or resigns? Is he guaranteed the money? Not saying I think this will happen, but does anybody know the details of his contract?

 

[thewave]

It's the whole cutting corners business we've experienced in the past.

difference being:

- signing Stamkos doesn't cost us any assets like in the past where we moved young pieces for older guys causing our prospect pool to be way too shallow

- Stamkos turns 26 in 2 weeks. If JVR Who is about 9 months older than him can be a piece of the rebuild there is no reason Stamkos can't be.

It's not cutting corners if you think of it as though we drafted him when he was born. We just sent him off to hockey school and now he is ready to come home.

 

[TorontoTrades]

It's not cutting corners if you think of it as though we drafted him when he was born. We just sent him off to hockey school and now he is ready to come home.

hence the "difference being" part... I don't think going after Stamkos falls under that category.

I'm all for going after Stamkos and think if we can get him at 9.5 over 7 years I would be pretty happy. 12 million in the first 3 years... then 8, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5 the rest of the contract.

 

[Stephen]

My concern is that if Stamkos is signed and management gets an order from ownership to start to "win now", picks and prospects will begin to be flipped for older players.

I hope that doesn't happen, nor do I necessarily think it will. But the Leafs have a long history of trying to take shortcuts, and at present they finally seem to be undergoing a proper rebuild. I just want that to continue - even if they bring in Stamkos.

All rebuilding teams try to blend veteran talent with youth.

For example, the team kicking the Leafs ass tonight has Ekblad, Huberdeau, Barkov, Bjugstad, Gudbranson, Petrovic, Trochek, all that good stuff, but they also went out and augmented that with Luongo, Jagr, and gasp... even Bolland.

I don't see a problem with our core being augmented with Stamkos and other sensible veteran additions to help the team mature over the next few years.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

My concern is that if Stamkos is signed and management gets an order from ownership to start to "win now", picks and prospects will begin to be flipped for older players.

I hope that doesn't happen, nor do I necessarily think it will. But the Leafs have a long history of trying to take shortcuts, and at present they finally seem to be undergoing a proper rebuild. I just want that to continue - even if they bring in Stamkos.

Richard Peddie nor Brian Burke are running this thing. Babcock and others have made it clear that this is a rebuild. It's not gonna happen overnight.

 

[Stephen]

Richard Peddie nor Brian Burke are running this thing. Babcock and others have made it clear that this is a rebuild. It's not gonna happen overnight.

All rebuilds still acquire veteran babysitters. Look at the veterans we all added this summer.

 

[Stephen]

Interesting article here talking about the state income tax issue in Florida:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/how-taxes-could-impact-stamkos-signing-with-maple-leafs/

Then again, if he's making $10 million USD while living in Toronto, his living expenses are 30% lower, which works out to $14 million CAD per season.

 

[Pookie]

To those that don't think there will be Board pressure for a short cut, consider what Scott Moore, President of Sportsnet and NHL Hockey at Rogers had to say:

How would ratings improve if the Leafs were a winning team?

Twenty per cent. We did the analysis. Leaf ratings on Saturday nights are down 20 per cent and overall Saturday night is down 15 to 20 per cent. If the Leafs were winning, their ratings would be up 20 per cent. If they were clearly a playoff team, it would be 30 or 40 per cent. They’re going to be .500 or better next season, and hopefully we’ll see some increase in the ratings.

Do you think Rogers and Bell — as co-owners of the Leafs — would interfere with Brendan Shanahan’s rebuilding program, to try to speed it up, for ratings purposes?

I don’t think the right word is interference. There’s pressure. I believe he is doing the right thing. I think he and the team and us all need to look at the messaging. I don’t think saying there’s four or five years of pain is necessarily the messaging we want. It’s: ‘There’s a plan. There’s progress. There’s going to be legitimate stars on this team over the next number of years that you’ll be able to watch as they progress, whether that’s Leo Komarov, (William) Nylander, or Mitch Marner.’

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/spor...e-on-hockey-hokey-and-hope-for-the-leafs.html

- Jan 17, 2016

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Interesting article here talking about the state income tax issue in Florida:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/how-taxes-could-impact-stamkos-signing-with-maple-leafs/

Then again, if he's making $10 million USD while living in Toronto, his living expenses are 30% lower, which works out to $14 million CAD per season.

Living expenses are lower in Toronto???

Here is an excerpt

Joe Smith of the Tampa Bay Times, with help from sports tax specialist Robert Raiola, did a terrific job breaking down what Stamkos and his agent will have to consider before signing a long-term deal.

Raiola determined that if Stamkos signed the proposed eight-year, $68-million deal he’d walk away with $36,782,272 in net income after deducting agent fees, federal taxes and any state/city/jock taxes.

In contrast, if Stamkos were to sign a seven-year (because seven years would be the limit if he joined a new team) deal worth $70 million with a team like his hometown Maple Leafs his net income after agent fees plus federal and provincial taxes would be $29,729,000. That’s roughly $7 million less than the Tampa total presuming he lived in the Toronto area.

--------------

I think you might have been talking about the exchange rate difference?

There's lots for Stamkos agent to consider beyond what is discussed even in articles like this i.e. dividend taxes (guys with millions don't have their money stashed in a piggy bank or a bank savings account, & likely will be in the market), cost of housing, cost of living, etc. You can guess which location these favour. Corporation executives/owners know all about the difficulties in moving employees (relocation packages) from a place like Florida to Toronto.

 

[Le Cobra]

In these last 10 games we could really have benefited from some scoring from a guy like Stamkos. Kessel's 30 goals are leaving a gaping hole in our offensive production this season.

 

[Gallagbi]

To those that don't think there will be Board pressure for a short cut, consider what Scott Moore, President of Sportsnet and NHL Hockey at Rogers had to say:

How would ratings improve if the Leafs were a winning team?

Twenty per cent. We did the analysis. Leaf ratings on Saturday nights are down 20 per cent and overall Saturday night is down 15 to 20 per cent. If the Leafs were winning, their ratings would be up 20 per cent. If they were clearly a playoff team, it would be 30 or 40 per cent. They’re going to be .500 or better next season, and hopefully we’ll see some increase in the ratings.

Do you think Rogers and Bell — as co-owners of the Leafs — would interfere with Brendan Shanahan’s rebuilding program, to try to speed it up, for ratings purposes?

I don’t think the right word is interference. There’s pressure. I believe he is doing the right thing. I think he and the team and us all need to look at the messaging. I don’t think saying there’s four or five years of pain is necessarily the messaging we want. It’s: ‘There’s a plan. There’s progress. There’s going to be legitimate stars on this team over the next number of years that you’ll be able to watch as they progress, whether that’s Leo Komarov, (William) Nylander, or Mitch Marner.’

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/spor...e-on-hockey-hokey-and-hope-for-the-leafs.html

- Jan 17, 2016

The goal should be the same, to create a high-end team for as long as possible.

That benefits the Leafs and the owners.

Short-term fixes don't help either side in the long run and both should have the people in place to see that.

 

[thewave]

Living expenses are lower in Toronto???

Here is an excerpt

Joe Smith of the Tampa Bay Times, with help from sports tax specialist Robert Raiola, did a terrific job breaking down what Stamkos and his agent will have to consider before signing a long-term deal.

Raiola determined that if Stamkos signed the proposed eight-year, $68-million deal he’d walk away with $36,782,272 in net income after deducting agent fees, federal taxes and any state/city/jock taxes.

In contrast, if Stamkos were to sign a seven-year (because seven years would be the limit if he joined a new team) deal worth $70 million with a team like his hometown Maple Leafs his net income after agent fees plus federal and provincial taxes would be $29,729,000. That’s roughly $7 million less than the Tampa total presuming he lived in the Toronto area.

--------------

I think you might have been talking about the exchange rate difference?

There's lots for Stamkos agent to consider beyond what is discussed even in articles like this i.e. dividend taxes (guys with millions don't have their money stashed in a piggy bank or a bank savings account, & likely will be in the market), cost of housing, cost of living, etc. You can guess which location these favour. Corporation executives/owners know all about the difficulties in moving employees (relocation packages) from a place like Florida to Toronto.

So for us to square it up we would need to trade for him prior and sign him to 8x10 to have any sort of leverage. Not exact math just a rough estimate. Not sure what % the difference is if his residence is maintained in FL.

 

[613Leafer]

Why are people always scared of "accelerating the rebuild"? Nobody wants to be bad for years. If you can accelerate it, and it makes sense financially and asset wise, then why not?

I think the Leafs history of fast-track rebuilds gone wrong has made the fanbase VERY risk averse. Trading for the likes of Kessel, Raycroft, Toskala, Bolland, Stempniak, Primeau (Stralman sent in that one), etc, signing Clarkson, Komi, Blake, etc. None of these moves panned out. I personally love what the organization has been doing the past year or so, selling pending UFAs, not overpaying in free agency, etc.

In saying that, signing Stamkos would be quite different than the above mentioned moves. A few reasons.

1) it's a signing, not a trade. There's zero chance we give up Seguin, Rask, Hamilton, Steen, Stralman, etc.

2) Unlike those previous signings, Stamkos is a LEGITIMATE top line, arguably franchise calibre talent. He's won more Rocket Richard trophies than the Leafs as an entire organization have won since 1940. He's the calibre of talent that you could spend 3-4 years "tanking" for, and still never get.

3) We have a top 5 farm system in the league, arguably top 3. After this upcoming draft where we very likely draft in the top 5, and draft ~13+ times overall, we should be solidly established as the best or second best farm in the NHL.

So what does that all mean? There's less risk than those other moves, and we're in a position where even if we don't draft top 5 in 2017, we should have enough acquired talent via the draft to grow into a very good team going forward, especially if we're able to add a Stamkos calibre player to this group.

Do we write a blank cheque? No, obviously not. I wouldn't give him 12M, and I'd hesitate at 10.5M but would strongly consider it. At 9.5-10.0M, i'd do it. He'll be 26 years old, and at maximum can get a 7 year deal from us, which would take him off the books by age 33, which means he would be signed right through his prime, but not into his mid-30s. He's considered to be one of the most dedicated stars in the league when it comes to fitness, so an early decline would be surprising.

Not to mention a whole bunch of our players will be on ELCs and RFA contracts through Stamkos' entire hypothetical tenure as a Leaf, so we shouldnt be hurting THAT badly for capspace. By the time guys like Nylander/Marner are looking for raises, contracts like Lupul, Horton, Robidas, etc will all be off the books or coming off soon. Phaneuf's contract would be off the books a few years before Stamkos', giving more flexibility in those final years of his contract.

My main concerns with Stamkos are that he's not a very good two-way player, and that his numbers have declined since St. Louis left. In saying that, he's still a big offensive threat, and I think Babcock could help him with his overall play. All players have down years, Kane, Ovechkin, etc all have. I'd trust Stamkos' overall body of work more than just this seasons.

 

[Duckrider]

Stamkos has been declining the past 3 seasons.

 

[beer123]

What is the consensus here on signing Stamkos if the Leafs win the lottery to draft Matthews? Do they sign a superstar to mentor Matthews\Nylander or just allow the kids to play the top two lines?

 

[thewave]

What is the consensus here on signing Stamkos if the Leafs win the lottery to draft Matthews? Do they sign a superstar to mentor Matthews\Nylander or just allow the kids to play the top two lines?

I would still sign him. Cap can come from... Lupul Bozak Polak Winnik Dion Kadri etc.

The main thing is to shed off the first four above. 15m that can be replaced by Loov, Nylander, Leivo, Kapanen (and inside that little group alone would be considered upgrades at the position)

 

[Terrible GM]

A bigger factor than exchange rate is he is likely to have more revenue from advertising. Likely a lot more cash in Toronto.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

My concern is that if Stamkos is signed and management gets an order from ownership to start to "win now", picks and prospects will begin to be flipped for older players.

I hope that doesn't happen, nor do I necessarily think it will. But the Leafs have a long history of trying to take shortcuts, and at present they finally seem to be undergoing a proper rebuild. I just want that to continue - even if they bring in Stamkos.

There is no such thing as a "proper" rebuild.

 

[mcleex]

Remember when the ACC didn't allow those Stamkos signs in

I wonder if people are gonna try that in Florida

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Living expenses are lower in Toronto???

Here is an excerpt

Joe Smith of the Tampa Bay Times, with help from sports tax specialist Robert Raiola, did a terrific job breaking down what Stamkos and his agent will have to consider before signing a long-term deal.

Raiola determined that if Stamkos signed the proposed eight-year, $68-million deal he’d walk away with $36,782,272 in net income after deducting agent fees, federal taxes and any state/city/jock taxes.

In contrast, if Stamkos were to sign a seven-year (because seven years would be the limit if he joined a new team) deal worth $70 million with a team like his hometown Maple Leafs his net income after agent fees plus federal and provincial taxes would be $29,729,000. That’s roughly $7 million less than the Tampa total presuming he lived in the Toronto area.

--------------

I think you might have been talking about the exchange rate difference?

There's lots for Stamkos agent to consider beyond what is discussed even in articles like this i.e. dividend taxes (guys with millions don't have their money stashed in a piggy bank or a bank savings account, & likely will be in the market), cost of housing, cost of living, etc. You can guess which location these favour. Corporation executives/owners know all about the difficulties in moving employees (relocation packages) from a place like Florida to Toronto.

If a company owns a team, are they able to offer a player endorsements?

One would think it would not be allowed, just thinking it would be comical if both Rogers and BCE offered him the difference in endorsements.