Will Atlanta Get Another Team?

[Mightygoose]

Yet with the Charlotte Hornets collapse, there was immediate interest on both the city and investors part to bring a team back.

NHL efforts to Atlanta 10 years later..still crickets

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Add Seattle Super Sonics to that list.

Sonics, TL, WHOSE rights are still property record-wise of the OKC Thunder

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Sonics, TL, WHOSE rights are still property record-wise of the OKC Thunder

Okay. Why the non-sequitur?

 

[nhlfan79]

Yet with the Charlotte Hornets collapse, there was immediate interest on both the city and investors part to bring a team back.

NHL efforts to Atlanta 10 years later..still crickets

Why in the world would we want back into a league where the Commissioner didn't lift a finger to protect or preserve this market against malicious ownership bent on salting the earth? From the perspective of those of us here who lived through it firsthand, the NHL doesn't deserve our attention. That trust is irrevocably broken. The last thing we'd do is beg to get back in.

We've already moved on and rechanneled that energy and interest into revolutionizing the MLS. Just imagine routinely drawing 70,000 for soccer. (And they ludicrously still call us a bad sports town based on not selling out 4 pm weekday baseball playoff games 25 years ago.). That's mojo the Thrashers never tried (or cared) to harness.

 

[DaBadGuy7]

Why in the world would we want back into a league where the Commissioner didn't lift a finger to protect or preserve this market against malicious ownership bent on salting the earth? From the perspective of those of us here who lived through it firsthand, the NHL doesn't deserve our attention. That trust is irrevocably broken. The last thing we'd do is beg to get back in.

We've already moved on and rechanneled that energy and interest into revolutionizing the MLS. Just imagine routinely drawing 70,000 for soccer. (And they ludicrously still call us a bad sports town based on not selling out 4 pm weekday baseball playoff games 25 years ago.). That's mojo the Thrashers never tried (or cared) to harness.

Bettman and BOG really had no choice in getting Thrashers move to Winnipeg. ASG controlling the arena made it impossible for Thrashers to stay in Atlanta with no suitable backup arena. The blame can placed on both NBA and NHL for not vetting ASG. But neither league could predict how toxic and horrific they would be. But in terms of situation that lead to Thrashers relocation, the NHL really couldn’t do much imo.

I agree it will take an ownership group that is fully committed financially and wants to build a winning and sustainable brand. That will take 20-30 years when Atlanta gets a third go around. Until then, it’s an discussion on why Thrashers were unsuccessful and what is needed to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

It'd be cool to see the Flames back in Atlanta.

 

[GreenHornet]

Why in the world would we want back into a league where the Commissioner didn't lift a finger to protect or preserve this market against malicious ownership bent on salting the earth? From the perspective of those of us here who lived through it firsthand, the NHL doesn't deserve our attention. That trust is irrevocably broken. The last thing we'd do is beg to get back in.

We've already moved on and rechanneled that energy and interest into revolutionizing the MLS. Just imagine routinely drawing 70,000 for soccer. (And they ludicrously still call us a bad sports town based on not selling out 4 pm weekday baseball playoff games 25 years ago.). That's mojo the Thrashers never tried (or cared) to harness.

I, for one, would welcome another chance, though it would have to be a real and fair chance, something we never really had with the Thrashers (and the Flames, to an extent). After all, it is the highest level level of the best game in the world. All due respect to the Gladiators and the ECHL in general, it pales in comparison to the NHL. I understand the hesitancy given how badly the NHL botched its vetting of the A$G Septocluster™, and then threw up its collective hands and barely put up a fight to save the market. But hey, Bettman's pushing 70 these days. He and his regime can't last forever.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Yet with the Charlotte Hornets collapse, there was immediate interest on both the city and investors part to bring a team back.

NHL efforts to Atlanta 10 years later..still crickets

Thrashers were barely over 10 years old when they moved with no on ice success. No emotional connection with the city like Hornets did with Charlotte. And by on ice success I don’t even mean winning championships. They made the playoffs ONCE.

 

[Mightygoose]

Thrashers were barely over 10 years old when they moved with no on ice success. No emotional connection with the city like Hornets did with Charlotte. And by on ice success I don’t even mean winning championships. They made the playoffs ONCE.

The Flames stay was even shorter, though they made the playoffs more often they never won a playoff series so I doubt they had greater connection to the market. Even with that there was still an effort....a successful one at the time....to bring one back.

Vancouver Grizzlies lasted even shorter. The Aqulini family has expressed interest in brining the NBA back but have said they will need a partner. Has Atlanta even had that from someone/group?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

The Flames stay was even shorter, though they made the playoffs more often they never won a playoff series so I doubt they had greater connection to the market. Even with that there was still an effort....a successful one at the time....to bring one back.

Vancouver Grizzlies lasted even shorter. The Aqulini family has expressed interest in brining the NBA back but have said they will need a partner. Has Atlanta even had that from someone/group?

Vancouver likely needs a partner to run their AHL Affiliate once they officially exit from Utica/Esche, Mightygoose.....

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The Flames stay was even shorter, though they made the playoffs more often they never won a playoff series so I doubt they had greater connection to the market. Even with that there was still an effort....a successful one at the time....to bring one back.

Vancouver Grizzlies lasted even shorter. The Aqulini family has expressed interest in brining the NBA back but have said they will need a partner. Has Atlanta even had that from someone/group?

No, because Atlanta Hawks control the arena. There is no point unless Hawks ownership was in on it.

 

[Mightygoose]

No, because Atlanta Hawks control the arena. There is no point unless Hawks ownership was in on it.

Or if another ownership group....including the ones who were very public on wanting to buy the team... to work with a nearby county to build an arena where they can control or own it.

Therefore what happened with the Flames and Thrashers never happens again.

Maybe some did behind the scenes and found out there's no political will to make it happen

 

[StreetHawk]

Or if another ownership group....including the ones who were very public on wanting to buy the team... to work with a nearby county to build an arena where they can control or own it.

Therefore what happened with the Flames and Thrashers never happens again.

Maybe some did behind the scenes and found out there's no political will to make it happen

Would a building in another county actually work? I mean we would be talking about a scenario like the heat and Panthers in different arenas that are like 30-40 minutes drive apart. Does each arena get enough non sports events to cover their costs to operate the facility?

 

[Major4Boarding]

Bettman and BOG really had no choice in getting Thrashers move to Winnipeg. ASG controlling the arena made it impossible for Thrashers to stay in Atlanta with no suitable backup arena. The blame can placed on both NBA and NHL for not vetting ASG. But neither league could predict how toxic and horrific they would be. But in terms of situation that lead to Thrashers relocation, the NHL really couldn’t do much imo.

I agree it will take an ownership group that is fully committed financially and wants to build a winning and sustainable brand. That will take 20-30 years when Atlanta gets a third go around. Until then, it’s an discussion on why Thrashers were unsuccessful and what is needed to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

nhlfan79 can correct me if I'm wrong but I think they were implying that this whole A$G mess festered under Bettman's watch and nothing was done as it progressed. Not necessarily the end result Bettman and BOG being handcuffed and then relocation. I've longed wondered about that myself. I dived in to that mess and followed it going all the way back to Al Strachan's prognostication about them moving in '09. I've wondered too. Did they know or in the dark till near the end.

 

[Mightygoose]

Would a building in another county actually work? I mean we would be talking about a scenario like the heat and Panthers in different arenas that are like 30-40 minutes drive apart. Does each arena get enough non sports events to cover their costs to operate the facility?

That's a good question and I do wonder if it has been discussed behind closed doors since the Thrashers left....or even before.

To me this is the only way NHL in Atlanta can be viable. Even with the increase in the new TV deal, I don't think it' nearly enough for an NHL team to work out where they don't own or control at least part of the arena.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Would a building in another county actually work? I mean we would be talking about a scenario like the heat and Panthers in different arenas that are like 30-40 minutes drive apart. Does each arena get enough non sports events to cover their costs to operate the facility?

I don't think downtown Miami and Sunrise is merely 30 minutes apart.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

I'm willing to bet many of the naysayers are the same that thought Quebec was a fait accompli and that Vegas had no shot. Atlanta will get another chance, it's simply too lucrative of a market for the NHL to not pursue.

 

[nhlfan79]

nhlfan79 can correct me if I'm wrong but I think they were implying that this whole A$G mess festered under Bettman's watch and nothing was done as it progressed. Not necessarily the end result Bettman and BOG being handcuffed and then relocation. I've longed wondered about that myself. I dived in to that mess and followed it going all the way back to Al Strachan's prognostication about them moving in '09. I've wondered too. Did they know or in the dark till near the end.

That's what I was getting at. Even if Bettman had no actual leverage, as Commissioner, he should've publicly called out ASG's shenanigans as they were happening and told them to knock it off. By doing something other than remaining conspicuously silent, it might have brought more public pressure to bear on the ownership to manage the franchise in basic good faith. At a minimum, it would've served as a signal to the fanbase here that the league cares about its markets (something that, in hindsight, looked like mere lip service). If nothing else, the Commissioner had a duty to protect the integrity of the NHL brand from those intent on doing it harm.

That's a good question and I do wonder if it has been discussed behind closed doors since the Thrashers left....or even before.

To me this is the only way NHL in Atlanta can be viable. Even with the increase in the new TV deal, I don't think it' nearly enough for an NHL team to work out where they don't own or control at least part of the arena.

All true, but there's no public will or financial interest in building yet a *third* major arena anywhere in the metro area.

 

[MNNumbers]

A new arena might be a problem to even think about right now. Coming out of the pandemic, how much demand is there really going to be for large public gatherings like concerts, and so on? I know that sports fans will likely come back within a year or two, but I think that everything else is going to be pretty cautious. And, that means that anything to do with arenas is going to be very cautious.

And, someone mentioned the TV deal. Just do the math. Previous deal was 245M in the last year + 100M for streaming. That would be 345/31 or about 11M/teams. New deal is about 600 in the first year (we don't know the progression, but the average is about 645M/yr from both contracts. Assuming something small like a 15M/yr increment, that means about 600M in the first year. 600/32 is about 19M/team. Therefore, there is 8M/more per team available. Half of that, of course, goes to the players. So, 4M per team is all that the owners improve their situation from the new TV deal. That's not nothing, of course. But, it sure isn't a windfall. that's not nearly enough to begin to promote something like a new market or a new arena.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

and yes, Duluth, Georgia serves as the defacto base of the Atlanta pro hockey scene.....so add that into the discussion as well...

 

[Mightygoose]

Does the arena in Gwinnett have the footprint to be expandable for NHL specs? And if so, is it workable as a location?

Of course it would come down to how much potential ownership and local governments are willing to put into it.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Does the arena in Gwinnett have the footprint to be expandable for NHL specs? And if so, is it workable as a location?

Of course it would come down to how much potential ownership and local governments are willing to put into it.

nope, the Gladiators have had a hard enough time adjusting since the transition away from what the Thrashers were and it's probably not feasible to probably push that post pandemic..... Atlanta, as they are now known as as they expanded their marketing reach. Gwinnett's baseball team is also adapting as well as the Stripers, after their rebrand from the Braves who came from Richmond's Diamond.

@Atlantian probably could tell you more about how they've pivoted since the transition of the Thrashers to Winnipeg....

 

[CanadianCoyote]

I don't even think you'd need a new arena to house them, anyways;

Eliminate all the courtside seats from this picture and SFA could definitely still fit an NHL rink. I think the main problem is more the lack of an ice plant than actual arena configuration; and you could probably fix that for a lot less money than building an entire new building.

 

[Atlantian]

Have not read the whole thread so forgive me if I repeat some info.

For starters, no, Atlanta will not get another team in the next decade. Beyond that is hard to tell. Arthur Blank is the only hope for Atlanta NHL fans, but as far as I know, he has not said anything about an NHL team.

Atlanta also will not get an AHL team. An AHL team could play at either State Farm Arena (With renovations due to the removal of the ice plant) or the Infinite Energy Center, but the league is in no position to put a team in Atlanta. None of the 4 closest NHL teams (NSH, CAR, TB, and FLA) own their AHL affiliates, so even If Atlanta is open as a hockey market, which it is not, none of those teams would be able to move their affiliate here as you see with other teams like NJ and CGY. Also, the only team within a 10 hour bus ride is Charlotte, which is currently for sale and may be moving soon. Very, very unlikely the AHL puts a team in Atlanta in the next ten years.

Now we get to the Gladiators. Back when the Thrashers were their sole affiliate, much like the Wolves in the AHL, the (then Gwinnett) Gladiators were loaded with prospects that were never going to the show, with consistent playoff appearances and series wins. After the Thrashers left, the Gladiators hoped and marketed toward the Atlanta audience, hoping for an influx of fans. They never came. You can check Hockeydb attendances for the team and they have been consistently declining since the departure of the Thrashers. Since then, they tried the somewhat successful "Atlanta's one and only" marketing campaign, the rebranding from Gwinnett Gladiators to Atlanta Gladiators in 2015, and a color rebrand in 2019, to little success. In Atlanta, the sports market is vastly oversaturated, and the best way to distinguish yourself is to win. Now, if you know anything about the recent history of the Gladiators, you know that they do not do that. with one playoff berth and no playoff wins since 2013, the team has gotten lost in the vast sports landscape of Atlanta. Far from the winning ways of the Thrasher era, you could almost say theyre carrying the torch for Atlanta hockey now. That's not to say they will be going anywhere anytime soon. The league has made that clear, but the Gladiators are not helping to establish Atlanta as a hockey town.

 

[GreenHornet]

nope, the Gladiators have had a hard enough time adjusting since the transition away from what the Thrashers were and it's probably not feasible to probably push that post pandemic..... Atlanta, as they are now known as as they expanded their marketing reach. Gwinnett's baseball team is also adapting as well as the Stripers, after their rebrand from the Braves who came from Richmond's Diamond.

@Atlantian probably could tell you more about how they've pivoted since the transition of the Thrashers to Winnipeg....

Yeah, the current configuration for the Gwinnett Arena (currently called Infinite Energy Arena, although I think that's about to change, since IE was bought out by another company in recent years) is around 9,000 and expandable to 11,000. There is a lot of of new development in the neighborhood around the arena (and the adjacent Gwinnett Co. Civic and Convention Center), and there had been some brief mention when those plans were initially revealed about possibly expanding and updating luxury boxes, but that would've only brought capacity to about 14,000. And in any event, that talk was made only in passing and has either been put on the back burner or abandoned altogether, and that was even before the pandemic.

And to MightyGoose's point, local government's involvement would have to be substantial, since I THINK the county owns and operates the arena.