Will Atlanta Get Another Team?

[BKIslandersFan]

Atlanta got screwed, the Thrashers were actually doing very well before those ******s bought the team and pretty much sabotaged it. So yes Atlanta should get another chance at the NHL, in fact, Atlanta should get as many chances as need. The NHL can not let such a large market go without a team.

I would not say well but I saw no reason why they would not have been successful if they put on a good team on ice, you know, like so called traditional US markets.

There was definitely more things going for it in Atlanta than Carolina or Florida right now.

 

[voyageur]

Atlanta got screwed, the Thrashers were actually doing very well before those ******s bought the team and pretty much sabotaged it. So yes Atlanta should get another chance at the NHL, in fact, Atlanta should get as many chances as need. The NHL can not let such a large market go without a team.

No doubt it would look better on the NHL if they had a Southern footprint in Atlanta, instead of Nashville and Carolina. But the NHL isn't a big deal in Atlanta, at all, so what are we fighting for. If Florida moved there I would be completely indifferent, because it's a stronger market. But Atlanta fans can wait in line with Quebec fans, who would bring in more revenue out of a smaller market, for a team.

 

[voyageur]

I guess the alternative is to drop more teams hockey-mad markets and see how quickly it gets saturated, while ignoring a solid 1/2 of the population in North America. I'm sure that will help grow the game and make it more attractive to potential fans and help lay deeper roots that make the sport even stronger down the road.

I mean, imagine how deep the NHL talent pool would be if we just restricted it to Canada and a smattering of locations from the upper tier of U.S. states like it was in the 60s. I'm sure that would be a much better product than what we have today; at least then, it would be representative of the "true hockey fans" and not all the wanna-bes and overseas folks. I can just see the new slogan: The NHL - pretty much all Canada and few of you Americans, eh!


I'm pretty sure by this post you have no idea what a business plan looks like from the POV of a start-up operation.


It was eight (8) years of the Flames, and eleven (11) seasons of the Thrashers. And, not to mention, as the Flames were leaving Atlanta the North Stars were getting saved [the first time] by merging with the Barons [who had moved two seasons prior from Oakland], the Scouts had rolled out of Kansas City [after 2 years] to Denver and the newly-named Rockies were about to move to New Jersey [another no one has any interest in hockey there, why the hell are you moving a team there location], and there was this entire other pro hockey league going on that ... well, you've probably never heard of it, much less its negative financial impact on the NHL.

And, as has been mentioned numerous times now, the Thrashers were OK until Ted Turner sold to AOL/Time Warner who then sold the pro sports teams to ASG, who then imploded over who should really be in charge of decisions and the "winning" side ultimately decided to intentionally tank the team and chase away fans so as to get rid of it. And, surprise of surprises, the fans decided they weren't going to support ****ty ownership that crapped all over them in public and expressed open disdain for the fans and the team and the sport.

But please, to a point you made earlier, explain how the economics and professional landscape in place in 1978-1980 that drove the Flames relocation [along with that of a few other teams] are similar to the dysfunctional ownership in place in 2006 that ended up driving the Thrashers relocation.

It's almost pointless to talk about the NHL before Lemieux and Gretzky to L.A. Franchises went bankrupt everywhere. Atlanta moved, but Pittsburgh, Minnesota, St. Louis all could have as well. Minnesota eventually did, coming back after Atlanta. Washington was bankrupt. The NHL had no footing until Bettman took over in the 90s and Canadian teams lost their glory.

The Thrashers had poor ownership and management, but hockey has never been an easy sell. It did well for awhile, and for that reason I would definitely consider it a better market than Miami, with more corporate potential too.

But it's no slam dunk. Competing against the NBA. NFL. MLS. College football. College hoops. Etc. Etc. If what Don Waddell said is true, that 3/4 of Atlanta does not know or care about hockey, you are fighting to make inroads with a population that is less than Quebec City can draw upon, with fervent interest.

 

[canuckfan75]

I do believe they will get a team sometime between 2028 and 2032

They will want to get into Houston and Atlanta to make it a 34 team league. I think they have a owner in waiting with Liberty Media

 

[BKIslandersFan]

It's almost pointless to talk about the NHL before Lemieux and Gretzky to L.A. Franchises went bankrupt everywhere. Atlanta moved, but Pittsburgh, Minnesota, St. Louis all could have as well. Minnesota eventually did, coming back after Atlanta. Washington was bankrupt. The NHL had no footing until Bettman took over in the 90s and Canadian teams lost their glory.

The Thrashers had poor ownership and management, but hockey has never been an easy sell. It did well for awhile, and for that reason I would definitely consider it a better market than Miami, with more corporate potential too.

But it's no slam dunk. Competing against the NBA. NFL. MLS. College football. College hoops. Etc. Etc. If what Don Waddell said is true, that 3/4 of Atlanta does not know or care about hockey, you are fighting to make inroads with a population that is less than Quebec City can draw upon, with fervent interest.

It was Waddell’s Job to make Atlanta care about NHL but he failed by putting shitty teams on ice.

 

[voyageur]

It was Waddell’s Job to make Atlanta care about NHL but he failed by putting ****ty teams on ice.

They were 1st in their division with Buff and Wheeler. Going into the Christmas break. Drawing less than 13 000 fans. I guess that wasn't enough.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

They were 1st in their division with Buff and Wheeler. Going into the Christmas break. Drawing less than 13 000 fans. I guess that wasn't enough.

They were around 16K+ when ASG bought the team and immediately try to sell them. From there, attendance dropped around a thousand each year they owned the team. Pretty simple to see what the problem was.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Winnipeg Jets [NHL, 1979-1996] yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

 

[sexydonut]

You Winnipeg guys should be a bit more sympathetic to the plight of another fan base that lost its team.

Sure Winnipeg per capita has more hockey fans than just about anywhere else. But Winnipeg is also the smallest potato amongst urban areas.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

You Winnipeg guys should be a bit more sympathetic to the plight of another fan base that lost its team.

One would like to believe that the lion's share of them are, and we just get the noisy outliers here...but, wow, the ones we do get...

 

[jonathan613]

Well, it’s about the unique geography of the south Florida market. Every other major metro area essentially radiates from the biggest city in multiple directions. For example, the suburbs of NYC lie east to Long Island, north and northeast to the Hudson Valley and Connecticut, and west and southwest to New Jersey. In South Florida, there’s basically nothing to the west, south or east of Miami. I can’t think of another metro area in the US that fits the same geographical restriction. Everything is north. Going north, Miami-Dade County has about 2.8 million people or so. Broward, where Sunrise is, has about 2 million people. Palm Beach has 1.5 million. So the idea was, in certain ways, the same as putting it downtown in another metro area. You’re putting the arena where is equally accessible, from a geographic point of view, to the whole market.

I think it was a mistake, because Miami-Dade is big enough by itself to support an NHL team, but I get it.

I lived him Miami beach for 3 years and wen to 2 panthers games when i was there. The problem is that it is literally right next to the everglades where there is really nothing to the west. That is not doing a good job of locating an arena in the center of population activity. If they were playing in downtown fort lauderdale, with an ability for people to hangout in bars and restaurants during game times, i would be more sympathetic to the idea you are expressing. It is very difficult to expect anyone to drive west from all major areas to the game. The dominant demographic in Florida in the future will be Latinos who primarily live near miami. It is impossible to ask them to make it out to sunrise on weeknights, and I do believe Latino hockey interest is critical for the long term NHL growth in these non-traditional markets. In a perfect world in my opinion, a downtown fll arena could in the future yield efficient public transportation alternatives from Miami.

You will notice a theme throughout the league that teams now playing in suburban places are struggling while others are not as much. Ottawa, Florida, Arizona all have the same problem.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I lived him Miami beach for 3 years and wen to 2 panthers games when i was there. The problem is that it is literally right next to the everglades where there is really nothing to the west. That is not doing a good job of locating an arena in the center of population activity. If they were playing in downtown fort lauderdale, with an ability for people to hangout in bars and restaurants during game times, i would be more sympathetic to the idea you are expressing. It is very difficult to expect anyone to drive west from all major areas to the game. The dominant demographic in Florida in the future will be Latinos who primarily live near miami. It is impossible to ask them to make it out to sunrise on weeknights, and I do believe Latino hockey interest is critical for the long term NHL growth in these non-traditional markets. In a perfect world in my opinion, a downtown fll arena could in the future yield efficient public transportation alternatives from Miami.

You will notice a theme throughout the league that teams now playing in suburban places are struggling while others are not as much. Ottawa, Florida, Arizona all have the same problem.

Miami/American Airlines Arena says hello

 

[Major4Boarding]

Be mindful of what you post going forward

 

[Tawnos]

I lived him Miami beach for 3 years and wen to 2 panthers games when i was there. The problem is that it is literally right next to the everglades where there is really nothing to the west. That is not doing a good job of locating an arena in the center of population activity. If they were playing in downtown fort lauderdale, with an ability for people to hangout in bars and restaurants during game times, i would be more sympathetic to the idea you are expressing. It is very difficult to expect anyone to drive west from all major areas to the game. The dominant demographic in Florida in the future will be Latinos who primarily live near miami. It is impossible to ask them to make it out to sunrise on weeknights, and I do believe Latino hockey interest is critical for the long term NHL growth in these non-traditional markets. In a perfect world in my opinion, a downtown fll arena could in the future yield efficient public transportation alternatives from Miami.

You will notice a theme throughout the league that teams now playing in suburban places are struggling while others are not as much. Ottawa, Florida, Arizona all have the same problem.

The Islanders too, when they were in Nassau. There was definitely a trend in that direction at one time that’s gone back in the other direction now.

The thing about the arena in Sunrise is that it is on a sort of beltway, with the Sawgrass Expressway and I75. It’s not hard to get there from Miami or West Palm Beach, but from the north you are talking about a bunch of tolls. I spent a lot of time in the area because my grandparents live in Lauderhill. You could see the arena from their building. As I said, I think it was a mistake, but it is logical.

 

[Centrum Hockey]

I lived him Miami beach for 3 years and wen to 2 panthers games when i was there. The problem is that it is literally right next to the everglades where there is really nothing to the west. That is not doing a good job of locating an arena in the center of population activity. If they were playing in downtown fort lauderdale, with an ability for people to hangout in bars and restaurants during game times, i would be more sympathetic to the idea you are expressing. It is very difficult to expect anyone to drive west from all major areas to the game. The dominant demographic in Florida in the future will be Latinos who primarily live near miami. It is impossible to ask them to make it out to sunrise on weeknights, and I do believe Latino hockey interest is critical for the long term NHL growth in these non-traditional markets. In a perfect world in my opinion, a downtown fll arena could in the future yield efficient public transportation alternatives from Miami.

You will notice a theme throughout the league that teams now playing in suburban places are struggling while others are not as much. Ottawa, Florida, Arizona all have the same problem.

Sunrise whould make a great ahl location with school events promotions etc a nhl arena should be near metropolitan centers

 

[DowntownBooster]

Winnipeg Jets [NHL, 1979-1996] yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

Atlanta Flames yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Miami/American Airlines Arena says hello

It’s not an arena designed for hockey.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Atlanta Flames yearly attendance at hockeydb.com

you do realize that during this period in the NHL drawing an average of 12k was considered really good? you just provided evidence that Atlanta is in fact good NHL market.

 

[DowntownBooster]

you do realize that during this period in the NHL drawing an average of 12k was considered really good? you just provided evidence that Atlanta is in fact good NHL market.

I'm glad to provide you with evidence that Atlanta is a good NHL market. I'm not going to dispute that with you as I think Atlanta deserves another shot as well with good ownership. My point of posting it was to show that although the Flames did not draw as well as the Thrashers later did, the same thing happened with Jets 1.0 and Jets 2.0. It just seems that you're trying to knock Winnipeg for some reason. The Jets have proven to be a positive addition to the league. There's no reason to think the league can't benefit from having a team in Winnipeg as well as one in Atlanta.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

I'm glad to provide you with evidence that Atlanta is a good NHL market. I'm not going to dispute that with you as I think Atlanta deserves another shot as well with good ownership. My point of posting it was to show that although the Flames did not draw as well as the Thrashers later did, the same thing happened with Jets 1.0 and Jets 2.0. It just seems that you're trying to knock Winnipeg for some reason. The Jets have proven to be a positive addition to the league. There's no reason to think the league can't benefit from having a team in Winnipeg as well as one in Atlanta.

I think he's just trying to get to some of the posters who never want to give Atlanta another chance. And think Hamilton, QC, Saskatoon, Regina, Medicine Hat all should have a team.

 

[DowntownBooster]

I think he's just trying to get to some of the posters who never want to give Atlanta another chance. And think Hamilton, QC, Saskatoon, Regina, Medicine Hat all should have a team.

Yeah, I see your point.

 

[cbcwpg]

How can the NHL sell hockey in the South?

Comments from Alabama

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

How can the NHL sell hockey in the South?

Comments from Alabama

Good article. Going by the quotes, it looks like a committed ownership willing to put in time to create the culture and atmosphere is what's needed. I couldn't agree more. See: Arthur Blank and Atlanta United. Thanks for posting that.

 

[DetroitRed]

If the NHL seeks to expand again and an ownership group then applies, I think a potential team 33 would be paired with another expansion team on the other side, one new team in the western half of the continent and one new team in the eastern half of the continent.

Seems like during the Vegas expansion, I heard the NHL say Quebec City wouldn't be considered until they put another team in the west. Seattle will fulfill that requirement. So, if there is another round of expansion, two teams to keep things even, I believe one team would again be in the west and then they would look into Quebec City again for the east.

The problem with that is Bettman just recently said there is no plans to expand again (after Seattle) in the foreseeable future. Which seems to infer that the Houston group, already having dedicated more than a year to exploring the idea of getting an NHL team is still nowhere near ready. Another team in the western half of the continent to pair with another team in the eastern half of the continent being a key to future expansion, and Houston being the only western possibility approaching anything like seriousness but still not being anywhere near ready is the issue.

Actually though, 32 teams is a perfect number mathematically for a league with two conferences, four divisions, eight teams per division making the playoffs (for a total of 16 playoff teams). They'll upset a lot of obsessive-compulsive people if they change that number.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

How can the NHL sell hockey in the South?

Comments from Alabama

Funniest thing I read all morning:

"New Orleans will never have an NHL team, but why not have a game in the Superdome? Or have the Flames and Jets play in Mercedes-Benz Stadium. The loser moves back to Atlanta."