Will Atlanta Get Another Team?
- Thread starter Hockeyholic
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The "Braves left Atlanta" argument is so based in fantasy. The stadium is just, and I mean just, outside I-285, which everyone touts as the border of Atlanta. My parents live 10 minutes from the stadium, in Cobb County, and have an Atlanta address. The new stadium is about as far north of downtown as the old stadium was south, it just isn't technically in the city of Atlanta. never mind that the Atlanta Metropolitan Area is universally considered to be made up of Fulton, Dekalb, Clayton, Cobb, Gwinnett, and Forsyth. The argument of the Cobb Braves is a dumb rallying cry from those of my fellow southsiders that are too stubborn to admit that most of the wealth and disposable income exists in the northern half of the city.
The arena and location of arena will never be a hurdle to the NHL returning here. The far greater issue is the optics of two teams having come and gone. I would anticipate decades before another chance may come. It will take a team in need of relocation in conjunction with one rich owner a-la Arthur Blank that is committed to having a team in Atlanta and making it work, regardless of the cost.
Tom ServoMST3K
In search of a Steinbach Hero
ponder719
M-M-M-Matvei and the Jett
Or have a child who is a) going to inherit the bulk of their parents' estate, b) has an interest in the sport, and c) isn't a complete moron.
BKIslandersFan
F*** off
Less competition in Virginia, but Atlanta definitely has better demographics.
By Virginia you mean the Hampton Roads area, as the Capitals control the area around DC. Hampton Roads does not have a large population size, nor is it particularly wealthy. It is known for having a lot of military spending.
Atlanta on the other hand, is along the lines of Dallas and Houston, 6+ million in population, growing rapidly, and home to a lot of large corporations.
By Virginia you mean the Hampton Roads area, as the Capitals control the area around DC. Hampton Roads does not have a large population size, nor is it particularly wealthy. It is known for having a lot of military spending.
Atlanta on the other hand, is along the lines of Dallas and Houston, 6+ million in population, growing rapidly, and home to a lot of large corporations.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
Hampton Roads has almost 2 million people in it. It’s the second largest metro in the US without major pro sports and it’s larger than several that do have it.
Agreed that Atl is still a stronger market.
BKIslandersFan
F*** off
As proven by Winnipeg it’s not entirely about population. In this case is there enough corporate support?
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
who's going to fund a newer version of Scope, there was a reason why the regional reference was forced to be replaced by Norfolk, and where do you place the arena and what becomes of the current arena....... ODU is your only option logistically
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
They'd need a new arena. In the franchise trifecta of market, arena, ownership I was only pointing out that the market side isn't as far off as the poster I was responding to was indicating. The arena and prospective ownership are a whole other hill of beans.
Ted Hoffman
Done
- Dec 15, 2002
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Sunrise is to Metro Miami as Oshawa is to Metro Toronto. Plus, as I've stated repeatedly over the years, losing has a way of making good markets look terrible - just like winning has a way of making bad markets look great.
Norfolk Southern has its HQ there, but as far as employment it's not in the top-10 as of a report from 2012. [Or, the top-50.] That said the top-10 were:
1. U.S. Department of Defense
2. Sentara Healthcare
3. Norfolk City School Board
4. City of Norfolk
5. Old Dominion University
6. Children's Hospital of the King's Daughters
7. Portfolio Recovery Association
8. Eastern Virginia Medical School
9. Anthem
10. Norfolk State University
Out of 143,000 jobs listed there, 39K were some form of government position with 21.5K in health care / social assistance, 11K retail, 11K hotel / restaurant. Maybe more telling: the growth projection for employment for 2014-2024 was about 0.8% per year, which was heavily slanted toward the front years. And, you only have about 30% of the population with a bachelor's degree or higher which is less than the U.S. average and especially less than the Virginia state average.
So ... lots of people, but lots of government and health-related jobs [which suggests corporate support would be weak at best], and not a high level of education that says "we could be growing a ton of jobs which would increase the population" which is borne out in the future job growth estimates [which suggests there probably isn't nearly enough fan dollars to overcome weak corporate support].
Link to report: http://virginialmi.com/report_center/community_profiles/5104000710.pdf
The money in VA is disproportionately located in the DC area. Hampton Roads is much smaller, not nearly as wealthy, and has a population spread out through four competing municipalities.
The comparison with Atlanta is ludicrous. In terms of demographics, Atlanta is on the level of Dallas and Houston.
The comparison with Atlanta is ludicrous. In terms of demographics, Atlanta is on the level of Dallas and Houston.
It's also been a perennial loser for a generation. Kinda like how people viewed the Red Wings, Blackhawks, and Kings a few decades ago.
DrMartinVanNostrand
Kramerica Industries
From 1972-'73 until 1991-'92, the Red Wings only had one winning season in the space of 20 years (1987-'88). It wasn't until the '92 season that, in earnest, the Red Wings became the dominant superpower we all have known them as for the better part of the last three decades.
So, brushing aside the "Dead Wings" aspect of things, since that only really refers to their Cup drought, they were legitimately bad for two solid decades. I wouldn't say that guy you responded to is wrong.
If 19 losing seasons out of 20 doesn't make a team a perennial loser, then what does?
Detroit is and always will be a model organization..... they are not 'perennial losers' from ownership on down
Ted Hoffman
Done
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That may be true today, but the fact is between 1967 and 1983 the Red Wings made the playoffs twice and were generally terrible - to the point that the Red Wings were giving away free cars at games and people still didn't want to go because the team was so bad.
Plus, the first 10 years of the Ilitch era weren't much to write home about; it took tampering with Jacques Demers [even if the charge was dismissed by then-NHL President John Zeigler] to get him to come over from the Blues to be the HC for the team to be semi-decent, it took 10 years to finally record back-to-back winning seasons, and it took coaxing Scotty Bowman to finally get the team back to winning a Cup. That "model organization" didn't sprout overnight, and attendance in those first few years was still fairly craptastic and relied heavily on marketing gimmicks to get people into seats.
Detroit Red Wings yearly attendance at hockeydb.com
Detroit Red Wings hockey team statistics and history at hockeydb.com
So we take two of the most basic metrics of hockey health, attendance and team performance. Notice those bad periods starting in the 70s? Notice how attendance was somehow correlated with team performance?
In your ahistorical world, the Red Wings have always been a model organization. Empirical evidence laughs at your claim.
dj4aces
An Intricate Piece of Infinity
I believe Atlanta will get another shot at things, there just has to be a good alignment. There is definitely corporate presence in the city, but there has to be someone who's willing to step up and say they want a team, and is willing to do whatever it takes to bring one back to the city.
Atlanta can be a great NHL market. It just needs an owner willing to build it up.
How quickly we forget the "Dead Wings" era, eh? The team absolutely stunk in the 70s and 80s.
Atlanta can be a great NHL market. It just needs an owner willing to build it up.
How quickly we forget the "Dead Wings" era, eh? The team absolutely stunk in the 70s and 80s.
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