Will Alex Turcotte have a spot in LA?

[KingsOfCali25]

Am I missing something- this guy sucks. He is undersized, has very little skill that I can see and is not particularly fast. I want to be fair and maybe analysts of the game better than me see something, but this is a bust. I wish I was wrong.

Let's give him so more time to play in the NHL before throwing him to the bust level. He's only played 29 games and averages less the 10 mins a game. I remember people calling Vilardi and Byfield "busts" but look at them now. Most people don't break into the league until the age of 25. Not until recently that teams have been allowing younger players to play earlier causing this rush of bust calling of prospects.

He's had a tough start to his professional career with all the concussions. He might not live up to his draft position (not many do) but he's gonna be a heck for a player from what I've seen. He still plays like what the "draft experts" said he was...a highly competitive playmaker with excellent vision. He had started out on the 4th line Center with the Lizotte injury and was moved up to the 3rd line quickly after and then has been given a shot on the top line with Kopitar when Kempe got hurt. Now that Kempe is back he is still on the 1st line, so it is saying something if the coaches believe in him.

 

[lumbergh]

Am I missing something- this guy sucks. He is undersized, has very little skill that I can see and is not particularly fast. I want to be fair and maybe analysts of the game better than me see something, but this is a bust. I wish I was wrong.

You’re not missing much. He doesn’t suck, but he is not the player everyone expected when he was drafted. Tenacity cannot make up for his lack of skill and hockey sense. Skates fast and pursues the puck well, but that’s about it. Like Lizotte without the ability to win board battles and come out with the puck.

Maybe he develops given more games, but it doesn’t look good. He’ll get another training camp before he can be labeled a bust.

 

[Herby]

You’re not missing much. He doesn’t suck, but he is not the player everyone expected when he was drafted. Tenacity cannot make up for his lack of skill and hockey sense. Skates fast and pursues the puck well, but that’s about it. Like Lizotte without the ability to win board battles and come out with the puck.

Maybe he develops given more games, but it doesn’t look good. He’ll get another training camp before he can be labeled a bust.

Good description.

Whether you call him a bust is subjective on what you define as a bust. If you consider a bust to be Colten Tuebert/Lori Tukonen type, then no, he isn't a bust because he will have a long career as a depth guy assuming he can overcome the health. If you consider a Top 5 pick ending up as a Blake Lizotte type, then yes, you would call him a bust.

I like the energy and tenacity that Turcotte plays with, guys like this have a place on an NHL roster, and I think he will settle in to be that on the Kings, nothing great, but a useful energy guy who may be able to chip in 10-12 goals and maybe 25-30 points. I have compared him to Cogliano for years, but at this point I think his offense may just be a level or two below Cogliano. It's tough to let go of any kind of offensive hope for a kid who put up comparable or even better numbers in the USHL than some pretty accomplished NTDP teammates, but it's tough to ignore the just complete lack of anything offensively since then across a lot of levels.

I do understand where @Piston is coming from though with some of the stuff I do read on this forum, sometimes I get the feeling I am watching a completely different player than some people here. I see an energy player with nice hustle and compete level, but there is just no offensive skill or offensive zone game-sense whatsoever, and sometimes I feel like people hype up that as being just around the corner.

 

[LAKings88]

Byfield Kopi Kempe
Fiala Danault Moore
Laf PLD ????
???? ???? ????

Assuming LA lets all ufa forwards walk. Might need to in order to resign Roy or a goalie.

Kaliyev (traded?)
Fagemo
Thomas
Turcotte
Helenius
Chromiak

Dark Horse:
Lee
Simontaival

If they go cheap AHL route to fill holes.

 

[kilowatt]

I would still love to see Byfield center Turcotte and Kaliyev.

PLD - Kopitar - Kempe
Turcotte - Byfield - Kaliyev
Moore - Danault - Fiala
Laferriere - Helenius - Thomas

Anderson - Doughty
Gavrikov - Clarke
Englund - Spence

I don’t see any way LA can re-sign Roy unless the plan is to just cycle through cheap goaltenders. Maybe the analytics say to do just that.

I also wonder if there’s any actual discussion about buying out PLD. I can’t imagine there is unless Blake gets fired.

There are only a few forwards with a greater cost-per-point than PLD when standardized to an 82-game season and whose cap hit is greater than $1.5 million. That basically accounts for fourth line players and guys who haven’t played much. The list is:

1. Nicklas Backstrom, $898k per point
2. Logan Couture, $585k
3. Kevin Labanc, $321k
4. Barclay Goodrow, $316k
5. Brock McGinn, $268k
6. Ryan Johansen, $267k
7. Jakub Silfverberg, $260k
8. Evgeny Kuznetsov, $248k
9. Brenden Gallagher, $242k
10. Pierre Luc Dubois, $241k

This is not a list you want to be on.

 

[King'sPawn]

Good description.

Whether you call him a bust is subjective on what you define as a bust. If you consider a bust to be Colten Tuebert/Lori Tukonen type, then no, he isn't a bust because he will have a long career as a depth guy assuming he can overcome the health. If you consider a Top 5 pick ending up as a Blake Lizotte type, then yes, you would call him a bust.

I like the energy and tenacity that Turcotte plays with, guys like this have a place on an NHL roster, and I think he will settle in to be that on the Kings, nothing great, but a useful energy guy who may be able to chip in 10-12 goals and maybe 25-30 points. I have compared him to Cogliano for years, but at this point I think his offense may just be a level or two below Cogliano. It's tough to let go of any kind of offensive hope for a kid who put up comparable or even better numbers in the USHL than some pretty accomplished NTDP teammates, but it's tough to ignore the just complete lack of anything offensively since then across a lot of levels.

I do understand where @Piston is coming from though with some of the stuff I do read on this forum, sometimes I get the feeling I am watching a completely different player than some people here. I see an energy player with nice hustle and compete level, but there is just no offensive skill or offensive zone game-sense whatsoever, and sometimes I feel like people hype up that as being just around the corner.

Here's my opinion on Turcotte, fwiw. He's not a high-skilled player. But you see the tenacity and battle with a good skillset.

He's not a conventional top-5 pick in the sense that he is flashy or dominates. But he's a dependable player who has, unfortunately, had to overcome a lot of adversity with injuries.

Of course, I hoped he would do more at the NHL level by now. But I also think we're focusing on the draft position too much. Aside from Boldy and Caufield, there hasn't been a forward taken after Turcotte who has been consistently worth their weight in gold. It's not like the 2003 Rangers with Hugh Jessiman. Even Anaheim seems ready to move on from Zegras with how MacTavish and Carlson have elevated in popularity.

So, no, he's not a world beater. But he's still a capable NHLer when healthy. And considering the number of concussions he's had, his refusal to avoid battles in spite of that suggests some of the intangibles he has that would have made it a great pick in better circumstances. He's not being reckless or stupid. He's being fearless. That speaks volumes to me.

 

[Sausages]

Give him 3 years.

Will be very good, IMHO.

I think he's a great learner and is as smart as he is tenacious.

 

[Vino]

Here's my opinion on Turcotte, fwiw. He's not a high-skilled player. But you see the tenacity and battle with a good skillset.

He's not a conventional top-5 pick in the sense that he is flashy or dominates. But he's a dependable player who has, unfortunately, had to overcome a lot of adversity with injuries.

Of course, I hoped he would do more at the NHL level by now. But I also think we're focusing on the draft position too much. Aside from Boldy and Caufield, there hasn't been a forward taken after Turcotte who has been consistently worth their weight in gold. It's not like the 2003 Rangers with Hugh Jessiman. Even Anaheim seems ready to move on from Zegras with how MacTavish and Carlson have elevated in popularity.

So, no, he's not a world beater. But he's still a capable NHLer when healthy. And considering the number of concussions he's had, his refusal to avoid battles in spite of that suggests some of the intangibles he has that would have made it a great pick in better circumstances. He's not being reckless or stupid. He's being fearless. That speaks volumes to me.

"focusing on the draft position too much" - "there hasn't been a forward taken after Turcotte who has been consistently worth their weight in gold."

What a shit you are talking? It's obvious that Turcotte was an awful pick, don't try to hide it. There is several forwards, whose have outplayed Turcotte. Not only 1st round picks, but also later round picks. Of course Cozens, Zegras, Boldy and Caufield, but also Newton, Krebs, Holström, Tomasino, McMichael. Smaller guys like Höglander and 4th rounder Maccelli has shown that you stay healthy and be an effective/productive player.

Turcotte can skate, that's pretty much it. No scoring, no physical presence - when playoffs start and things heat up, Turcotte is just useless.

 

[King'sPawn]

"focusing on the draft position too much" - "there hasn't been a forward taken after Turcotte who has been consistently worth their weight in gold."

What a shit you are talking? It's obvious that Turcotte was an awful pick, don't try to hide it. There is several forwards, whose have outplayed Turcotte. Not only 1st round picks, but also later round picks. Of course Cozens, Zegras, Boldy and Caufield, but also Newton, Krebs, Holström, Tomasino, McMichael. Smaller guys like Höglander and 4th rounder Maccelli has shown that you stay healthy and be an effective/productive player.

Turcotte can skate, that's pretty much it. No scoring, no physical presence - when playoffs start and things heat up, Turcotte is just useless.

I see you omitted where I said aside from Boldy and Caufield. I also mentioned Zegras. I also mentioned he's done well in spite of the circumstances. His injuries have certainly affected his trajectory. I did forget Cozens though.

The rest are still just coming into their own.

I like how Turcotte is playing though. Should he stay healthy, I think there's still more he will be able to do.

Feel free to disagree, but don't misrepresent my stance.

Edit: I'm not even disagreeing there were better picks. But it's not like we're taking Brian Lee before Kopitar here. I just think he has time and ability to put himself in that tier of players whose health has afforded them a better career up to this point.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

"focusing on the draft position too much" - "there hasn't been a forward taken after Turcotte who has been consistently worth their weight in gold."

What a shit you are talking? It's obvious that Turcotte was an awful pick, don't try to hide it. There is several forwards, whose have outplayed Turcotte. Not only 1st round picks, but also later round picks. Of course Cozens, Zegras, Boldy and Caufield, but also Newton, Krebs, Holström, Tomasino, McMichael. Smaller guys like Höglander and 4th rounder Maccelli has shown that you stay healthy and be an effective/productive player.

Turcotte can skate, that's pretty much it. No scoring, no physical presence - when playoffs start and things heat up, Turcotte is just useless.

He once was physical but probably just want to stay healthy now.

The fact he has to play a different game is too bad. Seems like the opinions on him are extremely black & white here.
He is no world beater and doesn’t look out of place in the lineup.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I guess I am definitely in the minority...once again....kinda getting used to it,

I love what Turcotte brings, that energy, he has very good offensive IQ, he's putting it together at the NHL level, which takes time, he's not gonna burn a goalie 30 feet out, he's not going to have insane vision, he's not going to have insane creatively, he's going to have a motor that goes, he goes to the net, it's a bit early to make this comparison, but think Hyman....

 

[Herby]

Here's my opinion on Turcotte, fwiw. He's not a high-skilled player. But you see the tenacity and battle with a good skillset.

He's not a conventional top-5 pick in the sense that he is flashy or dominates. But he's a dependable player who has, unfortunately, had to overcome a lot of adversity with injuries.

Of course, I hoped he would do more at the NHL level by now. But I also think we're focusing on the draft position too much. Aside from Boldy and Caufield, there hasn't been a forward taken after Turcotte who has been consistently worth their weight in gold. It's not like the 2003 Rangers with Hugh Jessiman. Even Anaheim seems ready to move on from Zegras with how MacTavish and Carlson have elevated in popularity.

So, no, he's not a world beater. But he's still a capable NHLer when healthy. And considering the number of concussions he's had, his refusal to avoid battles in spite of that suggests some of the intangibles he has that would have made it a great pick in better circumstances. He's not being reckless or stupid. He's being fearless. That speaks volumes to me.

I would say there are more than a few that just ended up being much better. Boldy, Cozens, Caufield, say what you want about Zegras, but he has two 60+ point seasons at 20 and 21, he got overrated and has fallen back this year, but he's very clearly a better player. Had the Kings gone with the scouts choice and took Zegras, there is very little chance the Kings trade for PLD.

I get the focus on draft spot argument, and it's valid, it is tough to look at a player like Turcotte and realize just how much draft capital he cost, and many people (myself included) have probably focused on it to much in our evaluations. But I would also argue that it's a two-way street, I really don't think there is as much forgiveness for the lack of production if he weren't a top 5 pick, and there are a large group of people here who continue even to this day to slot Turcotte into scoring line roles, and I have a very hard time believing that would be the case if people weren't so emotionally invested into a Top 5 pick succeeding. As I have said many times I think Turcotte is a quality 3rd or 4th line player, but there has been absolutely nothing shown in five seasons since being drafted that should lead anyone to have him projected as a top 6 winger. So just as there are some being unrealistic in one direction based on what he was at age 17, there are others being unrealistic based on what he was at 17, just in the other direction.

The 2019 Draft is still one of the more disappointing ones in recent memory for the Kings, especially when you factor in the hype that surrounded it right after.

Turcotte's offensive game never translated to levels above the NTDP, and the injuries also greatly damaged his development.

Bjornfot peaked way earlier than most prospects and was lost to waivers

Kaliyev's concerns on draft night have come to be at the NHL level, so much so that two coaches now don't feel comfortable playing him. I have a tough time giving up on a guy who can shoot the puck like he can, but right now I feel like a Wings fan with Frk 5-6 years ago.

Fagemo can't break through the NHL filter (like many before him).

Spence is a quality 3rd pairing defender, the most valuable asset from the draft.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

I would say there are more than a few that just ended up being much better. Boldy, Cozens, Caufield, say what you want about Zegras, but he has two 60+ point seasons at 20 and 21, he got overrated and has fallen back this year, but he's very clearly a better player. Had the Kings gone with the scouts choice and took Zegras, there is very little chance the Kings trade for PLD.

I get the focus on draft spot argument, and it's valid, it is tough to look at a player like Turcotte and realize just how much draft capital he cost, and many people (myself included) have probably focused on it to much in our evaluations. But I would also argue that it's a two-way street, I really don't think there is as much forgiveness for the lack of production if he weren't a top 5 pick, and there are a large group of people here who continue even to this day to slot Turcotte into scoring line roles, and I have a very hard time believing that would be the case if people weren't so emotionally invested into a Top 5 pick succeeding. As I have said many times I think Turcotte is a quality 3rd or 4th line player, but there has been absolutely nothing shown in five seasons since being drafted that should lead anyone to have him projected as a top 6 winger. So just as there are some being unrealistic in one direction based on what he was at age 17, there are others being unrealistic based on what he was at 17, just in the other direction.

The 2019 Draft is still one of the more disappointing ones in recent memory for the Kings, especially when you factor in the hype that surrounded it right after.

Turcotte's offensive game never translated to levels above the NTDP, and the injuries also greatly damaged his development.

Bjornfot peaked way earlier than most prospects and was lost to waivers

Kaliyev's concerns on draft night have come to be at the NHL level, so much so that two coaches now don't feel comfortable playing him. I have a tough time giving up on a guy who can shoot the puck like he can, but right now I feel like a Wings fan with Frk 5-6 years ago.

Fagemo can't break through the NHL filter (like many before him).

Spence is a quality 3rd pairing defender, the most valuable asset from the draft.

Non-Kings fan here who watches the Kings quite often:

Turcotte should have stayed at Wisconsin another year, considering he hadn't dominated the NCAA.

Kaliyev is far more talented than Frk ever was, seems like there's stubbornness on his end and the coaches end that has led him to where they're at.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't think the Kings would ever play Zegras at C. Maybe splitting hairs but I just can't see that world.

 

[KopitarGOAT420]

It's also reallllllllllly hard to evaluate a player who's getting 9 minutes of ice time a night on average. It seems I've seen more in his game than most on here, but I also understand those who are underwhelmed with his game / feel they aren't seeing much.

Honestly..... it feels very similar to Byfield conversations from last year / previous years. There were tons of people on these boards who claimed they saw nothing in Byfield's game that seemed promising or encouraging. Now there's a bunch of people claiming the same with Turcotte.

Now I'm not predicting the same outcome for Turcotte (I don't think he's going to explode next year and become a top 6 player - but who knows).... Just saying the situation feels very similar. Just like Byfield last year, I feel like Turcotte's play has been generally strong and he's generally doing good things while he's on the ice but doesn't end up on the score sheet a ton.

Is there more offense there?? Probably - The question becomes how much. And we won't know that answer for at least a year or two but I like the player we're starting to see and think he's the kind of player that gets better and better with time. This is basically his first year in the NHL and it's been a longggg road to get here. He skates really well, he's incredibly tenacious with a motor that doesn't stop. He has good vision / passing / playmaking ability / hockey IQ. And he's not afraid to go to the net despite a ridiculous concussion history.

Does he end up being a bottom 6 energy winger who puts up 30 or so points on average and plays a strong 2 way game?? Probably. But there also could be a little more there.. If he stays healthy, improves in the offseason, and finds himself in a consistent top 9 role next year, we could see him looking much better.

 

[Statto]

It's also reallllllllllly hard to evaluate a player who's getting 9 minutes of ice time a night on average. It seems I've seen more in his game than most on here, but I also understand those who are underwhelmed with his game / feel they aren't seeing much.

Honestly..... it feels very similar to Byfield conversations from last year / previous years. There were tons of people on these boards who claimed they saw nothing in Byfield's game that seemed promising or encouraging. Now there's a bunch of people claiming the same with Turcotte.

Now I'm not predicting the same outcome for Turcotte (I don't think he's going to explode next year and become a top 6 player - but who knows).... Just saying the situation feels very similar. Just like Byfield last year, I feel like Turcotte's play has been generally strong and he's generally doing good things while he's on the ice but doesn't end up on the score sheet a ton.

Is there more offense there?? Probably - The question becomes how much. And we won't know that answer for at least a year or two but I like the player we're starting to see and think he's the kind of player that gets better and better with time. This is basically his first year in the NHL and it's been a longggg road to get here. He skates really well, he's incredibly tenacious with a motor that doesn't stop. He has good vision / passing / playmaking ability / hockey IQ. And he's not afraid to go to the net despite a ridiculous concussion history.

Does he end up being a bottom 6 energy winger who puts up 30 or so points on average and plays a strong 2 way game?? Probably. But there also could be a little more there.. If he stays healthy, improves in the offseason, and finds himself in a consistent top 9 role next year, we could see him looking much better.

I think he might end up a 3C or possibly a middle six winger. It wouldn’t surprise me to see him deployed like Iafallo as the puck hound on a scoring line. I don’t think he will be a major offensive threat but he could be one of those glue guys that just helps lines click. I like him but the development issues with leaving college early and the concussion history have definitely hurt his upside. However he has great attitude and game IQ and should have a solid career if he can stay healthy.

I’m over discussing him as a 5OA pick as that wasn’t on him. Fine with raising it when discussing team decisions but I’m just enjoying seeing him on the ice as it could have gone the other way with the concussions. Like everyone else I hope he has a great career with us.

 

[Herby]

Non-Kings fan here who watches the Kings quite often:

Turcotte should have stayed at Wisconsin another year, considering he hadn't dominated the NCAA.

Kaliyev is far more talented than Frk ever was, seems like there's stubbornness on his end and the coaches end that has led him to where they're at.

Yeah, very clearly one of the worst development decisions in team history. I said it at the time how wild it was to have a player who was as overmatched in conference play as he was be promoted, but the Kings are firm believers that developing players in the AHL as teenagers is the optimal development path vs. the NCAA or Europe.

Since Blake took over...

Byfield
Turcotte
Bjornfot
Kupari
Kaliyev
Grans
Helenius

All in the AHL as teenagers.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

Yeah, very clearly one of the worst development decisions in team history. I said it at the time how wild it was to have a player who was as overmatched in conference play as he was be promoted, but the Kings are firm believers that developing players in the AHL as teenagers is the optimal development path vs. the NCAA or Europe.

Since Blake took over...

Byfield
Turcotte
Bjornfot
Kupari
Kaliyev
Grans
Helenius

All in the AHL as teenagers.

Byfield and Kaliyev due to COVID and being able to get around the traditional circumstances of the CHL-NHL agreement. But yeah it's odd. Wonder if AEG told Blake to change from rebuild to retool because they still had decent pieces and didn't want to risk "full Buffalo" for 5-10 years.

Kupari needed more time in the A (also, Liiga has been overrated for a bit now), he's just turned into a cardio merchant now.