AHL: Wilkes-Barre/Scranton Penguins: '24-'25 The Players Sully Hates

[Sike Mullivan]

i think we will get our center this year so it won't be as bad as it looks.

I hope so. Would love to get a nailed on top 6 center.

 

[Andy99]

It was more the “experts” saying he was pro ready as a 20 year old and HFboards comparing the d+1 stats of one guy to the d+2 stats of another guy.

I just don’t think he’s a play driver at the next level. He put up some points on a pretty deep and skilled Michigan roster. He is going to (hopefully) be a complementary winger and we have 0 skilled centers in the system to play with him and make him productive. Or, he’s just the next highly drafted big depth winger ala Mike Rupp.

And that’s why it was stupid to trade Yager for him…

 

[eXile3]

That's absurd. They're borderline AHL players. They absolutely should not have more points than a recent 1st round pick. Even in such a small sample size lol.

What are you talking about? Older players with more pro experience usually outscore younger ones without it. Thats the entire point of the AHL. To get young guys experience playing a pro game.

 

[Factorial]

Wasn’t the main appeal to getting him was that he was supposed to be pro (NHL) ready?

No, it was that he was closer to being "pro (NHL) ready" than Yager and that remains to be seen.

 

[Ulf5]

What are you talking about? Older players with more pro experience usually outscore younger ones without it. Thats the entire point of the AHL. To get young guys experience playing a pro game.

I'm talking about Johnstone has 33 points in 120 AHL games. He absolutely sucks.
Imama 74 in 316. They absolutely suck.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I personally think neither Yager or Groats will pan out to much. They're both outside-the-golden-range first round picks. Meh.

Regardless one assist in 7 games and a -5 is hardly the start in this organization I was hoping for. Hopefully he finds some confidence soon and starts producing. Not the end of the world but once this kind of rut drags into months as opposed to weeks then you have to start raising an eyebrow. It's not his fault but dude was sold pretty hard.

 

[Gurglesons]

I personally think neither Yager or Groats will pan out to much. They're both outside-the-golden-range first round picks. Meh.

Regardless one assist in 7 games and a -5 is hardly the start in this organization I was hoping for. Hopefully he finds some confidence soon and starts producing. Not the end of the world but once this kind of rut drags into months as opposed to weeks then you have to start raising an eyebrow. It's not his fault but dude was sold pretty hard.

Conor Geekie looks great in Tampa after getting some rope.

Our top prospect looks like shit after getting dropped into the minors so we could play Kevin Hayes Anthony Beauvillier and Blake Lizotte.

I'm truly shocked.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Conor Geekie looks great in Tampa after getting some rope.

Our top prospect looks like shit after getting dropped into the minors so we could play Kevin Hayes Anthony Beauvillier and Blake Lizotte.

I'm truly shocked.

I can't speak to WB/S as I don't watch them but I assume he's at least being given good linemates and appropriate role? I was a little concerned when I heard they started him on the third line.

But yeah I mean... they haven't handled him great to start out his Penguins career. Like you said... shocker. Dubas and Sullivan are going to be a hell of a duo when it comes to developing all these picks ya'll wanna hoard so badly. Which is a little funny considering some of those picks come attached to a player like Hayes who is potentially blocking the prospects they need to start developing.

 

[Gurglesons]

I can't speak to WB/S as I don't watch them but I assume he's at least being given good linemates and appropriate role? I was a little concerned when I heard they started him on the third line.

But yeah I mean... they haven't handled him great to start out his Penguins career. Like you said... shocker. Dubas and Sullivan are going to be a hell of a duo when it comes to developing all these picks ya'll wanna hoard so badly. Which is a little funny considering some of those picks come attached to a player like Hayes who is potentially blocking the prospects they need to start developing.

I saw something saying that essentially the only Dubas picks in Toronto right now from his time as GM are Knies and Mitten. lol.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah reviewing.

Kyle was GM in Toronto from 2018 - 2023.

The only current roster players that are Dubas picks are Nick Robertson, Matthew Knies, and Pontus Holmberg.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah reviewing.

Kyle was GM in Toronto from 2018 - 2023.

The only current roster players that are Dubas picks are Nick Robertson, Matthew Knies, and Hildeby.

That's not a terrific crop for a farm-builder.

 

[SomeDude]

I personally think neither Yager or Groats will pan out to much. They're both outside-the-golden-range first round picks. Meh.

I still think Yager is the better prospect but time will tell who the best pro is.

I think Yager was overlooked/underranked by a lot of the “expert” prospect rankers due to a few things but one of them being it’s been so long since we’ve had a legit prospect that nobody really cares about Pens prospects, and prospects from Canadian markets, like where Rutger was, generate more attention and clicks.

Yager went into his draft year (one of the deepest/best in decades) as one of the top prospects. The knock on him at that time was he was one-dimensional offense only. He changed his game in his draft year to show that he could play a two-way game at the expense of some offensive stats. He got rewarded by the same “experts” who called him one-dimensional by saying his offense has stalled. Since then, he has put up basically exactly what you could have wanted offensively in juniors.

I have admitted that I am bullish on Yager compared to most and part of that is that he seems like just a smart, coachable player that still has that high end offensive upside.

I fully expect that people will be more high on Yager after this year than they were with Rutger last year. Part of it being deserved and part of it being him now in a Canadian market where more attentions and clicks are generated.

 

[Gurglesons]

I still think Yager is the better prospect but time will tell who the best pro is.

I think Yager was overlooked/underranked by a lot of the “expert” prospect rankers due to a few things but one of them being it’s been so long since we’ve had a legit prospect that nobody really cares about Pens prospects, and prospects from Canadian markets, like where Rutger was, generate more attention and clicks.

Yager went into his draft year (one of the deepest/best in decades) as one of the top prospects. The knock on him at that time was he was one-dimensional offense only. He changed his game in his draft year to show that he could play a two-way game at the expense of some offensive stats. He got rewarded by the same “experts” who called him one-dimensional by saying his offense has stalled. Since then, he has put up basically exactly what you could have wanted offensively in juniors.

I have admitted that I am bullish on Yager compared to most and part of that is that he seems like just a smart, coachable player that still has that high end offensive upside.

I fully expect that people will be more high on Yager after this year than they were with Rutger last year. Part of it being deserved and part of it being him now in a Canadian market where more attentions and clicks are generated.

This was never the knock on Yager.

The knock on Yager was a few things.

1. Size
2. Skating
3. Production in his draft year going down from the previous year.
4. Compete

His production has improved since he was drafted, but I don't really see anything in his skating, size or compete that is proving that narrative wrong.

And most people had him in the top 5 prior to his draft year.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I still think Yager is the better prospect but time will tell who the best pro is.

I think Yager was overlooked/underranked by a lot of the “expert” prospect rankers due to a few things but one of them being it’s been so long since we’ve had a legit prospect that nobody really cares about Pens prospects, and prospects from Canadian markets, like where Rutger was, generate more attention and clicks.

Yager went into his draft year (one of the deepest/best in decades) as one of the top prospects. The knock on him at that time was he was one-dimensional offense only. He changed his game in his draft year to show that he could play a two-way game at the expense of some offensive stats. He got rewarded by the same “experts” who called him one-dimensional by saying his offense has stalled. Since then, he has put up basically exactly what you could have wanted offensively in juniors.

I have admitted that I am bullish on Yager compared to most and part of that is that he seems like just a smart, coachable player that still has that high end offensive upside.

I fully expect that people will be more high on Yager after this year than they were with Rutger last year. Part of it being deserved and part of it being him now in a Canadian market where more attentions and clicks are generated.

I don't disagree, really. I personally always default to talent especially at the center position and I generally start getting a little uncomfortable when a player's potential is couched largely in intangibles like Groats is. So you are preaching to the choir. I just can't help but be pretty underwhelmed by both in the (admittedly very rare) times I've seen them in scrimmage/camp situations. That doesn't mean much and is very hot-takey but here we are on the internet, after all.

To my eyes they both have this in common - both have played the past year on pretty stacked teams and it calls into question how much was on them and how much was on their teammates.

 

[SomeDude]

This was never the knock on Yager.

The knock on Yager was a few things.

1. Size
2. Skating
3. Production in his draft year going down from the previous year.
4. Compete

His production has improved since he was drafted, but I don't really see anything in his skating, size or compete that is proving that narrative wrong.

And most people had him in the top 5 prior to his draft year.

Yes, it was a knock on him. He was seen as one dimensional (aka boom/bust) heading into the draft year. You can go back and read the scouting reports from that time.

Yager himself said that was the reason he focused on his two-way game during his draft year. He also said that he and his coach discussed it would be more helpful for the team if he focused more on the defensive side of things as they already had a few older players fully capable handling the scoring. Call me old fashioned, but that’s the exact attitude I want for a guy on my team.

Yes, people also questioned his size and skating but I feel like that is just a general and lazy thing to put in when a guy isn’t 6’2” and a former figure skater like Jeff Skinner. Every prospect can use skating improvement and you can’t teach size.

I don’t remember reading a ton about compete level being an issue but it could have been. I personally don’t see it.

Yes, he was a top 5 pick heading into that draft year and as I said he dropped a bit due to his offense not exploding as projected due to him working on his overall game. It also had to do with the other players in that draft. It was stacked and really it’s hard to go wrong with any of those guys that went in that area. I personally wanted ASP with our pick, but really grew to love the pick of Yager after doing a deeper dive.

Time will ultimately tell and you never know what can happen in prospect development, but I think this is going to be another one of Kyle’s boner moves that continues to shoot ourselves in the foot.

 

[The Old Master]

This was never the knock on Yager.

The knock on Yager was a few things.

1. Size
2. Skating
3. Production in his draft year going down from the previous year.
4. Compete

His production has improved since he was drafted, but I don't really see anything in his skating, size or compete that is proving that narrative wrong.

And most people had him in the top 5 prior to his draft year.

i had him high.....
1. was a good point.. and still is
2-4 was bullstuff from those that never watched him or had no idea what they were looking at when they did.

 

[SomeDude]

No, it was that he was closer to being "pro (NHL) ready" than Yager and that remains to be seen.

Is that due to actually comparing their games and abilities, or just seeing that he has 3” and 30 lbs on Yager, though?

Obviously, he’s a year older so he’s closer, but is it worth it to sacrifice the move valuable position and possibly better all around player for being a year closer? Especially when the team is going nowhere in that said extra year and Dubas’ other moves over the summer showed that he was aware of that.

I think Dubas just evaluated Rutger as a considerable upgrade of a prospect. Which is fine. The talk of being more ready and everything is a more diplomatic way to not sound like you’re trashing a guy like Yager after trading him by just coming out and saying we think we got a better player. Hopefully he’s right. He gets paid a lot to make these decisions.

I’m just some idiot watching prospects in my spare time who happens to disagree with him. The more I see from both players, the more I happen to disagree with him. It will be more telling next year to see how Yager adapts to the next level.

 

[Gurglesons]

i had him high.....
1. was a good point.. and still is
2-4 was bullstuff from those that never watched him or had no idea what they were looking at when they did.

I don't think it's really bullshit.

His game just doesn't look like a play driver to me in the W or in international competition.

Think he's a Jared McCann type upside wise versus their being potential at him being a Brayden Point type when he was drafted.

 

[The Old Master]

I don't think it's really bullshit.

His game just doesn't look like a play driver to me in the W or in international competition.

Think he's a Jared McCann type upside wise versus their being potential at him being a Brayden Point type when he was drafted.

that's fine but which one of 2. skating, 3. production, 4. compete. is that based on?
i could see some of that based on lack of strength, but not on any of the above.

 

[Gurglesons]

that's fine but which one of 2. skating, 3. production, 4. compete. is that based on?
i could see some of that based on lack of strength, but not on any of the above.

What do you mean? Like why his game has fallen off?

I think it's largely his compete similar to McCann. He doesn't seem like the type of player that is going to adjust well to the NHL grind.

 

[Sike Mullivan]

I can't speak to WB/S as I don't watch them but I assume he's at least being given good linemates and appropriate role? I was a little concerned when I heard they started him on the third line.

They bumped him up to LW2 with Broz and Poulin last night.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

They bumped him up to LW2 with Broz and Poulin last night.

That seems like a pretty good situation for him. My understanding is that he's doing a lot of the little things right... hopefully the production follows. Soon.

 

[Darren McCord]

WBS is 6th in the league after 9 games. I get people want McGroarty to pop off but the team is doing well and he is getting time to adjust. He isn't being ask to do to much. Let him develop work on his game. Come back if he is still crap at game 30.

 

[Pancakes]

Mcgroarty will probably be like 30 by the time the Pens have a roster capable of making the playoffs again so he's got a lot of time to figure it out lol

 

[The Old Master]

What do you mean? Like why his game has fallen off?

I think it's largely his compete similar to McCann. He doesn't seem like the type of player that is going to adjust well to the NHL grind.

like some dude said ...Yager himself said that was the reason he focused on his two-way game during his draft year. He also said that he and his coach discussed it would be more helpful for the team if he focused more on the defensive side of things as they already had a few older players fully capable handling the scoring. Call me old fashioned, but that’s the exact attitude I want for a guy on my team.
it wasn't because of lack of skill it was he willingly put it aside to work on rounding out his game.
edit; are you looking at that as a flaw?