The Players' Tribune: Why We Fight by Brandon Prust

[Sheppy]

The thought of the NHL eliminating fighting actually disgusts me.

 

[TheTwelfth]

first round fights are relatively common ( think pens flyers 2 years ago) As the stakes get higher, the fights get lower but they still occur ( prust tuned up dorsett pretty good in the ECF).

scoring also, generally drops in the playoffs as do power plays. Are these two things not important because they decrease as the stakes get higher?

as to what would happen if " they took fighting out of the game completely" ? I'm glad we won't ever have to find out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

 

[Do Make Say Think]

If you haven't noticed fights in the playoffs, you haven't been watching very much.

Not a lot of fighting in the playoffs these days

 

[sandysan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

do you deny that scoring and power plays go down ? That's not a straw man. There is a difference between the regular season and the playoffs. That I have to explicitly say this is kinda sad.

The game is not homogeneous, the argument that because fights go down in the later rounds means that it's dispensable is a poor one. lots of things go down. so freaking what ?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

do you deny that scoring and power plays go down ? That's not a straw man. There is a difference between the regular season and the playoffs. That I have to explicitly say this is kinda sad.

The game is not homogeneous, the argument that because fights go down in the later rounds means that it's dispensable is a poor one. lots of things go down. so freaking what ?

It's a straw man because you're trying to make it like power plays and goals have the same relevance to the topic as fighting does when it doesn't. You denying it's a straw man just means you either don't know what a straw man is or are willingly ignoring that just for the sake of argument.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I wonder if there's more fighting in the preseason than the regular season.

 

[sandysan]

It's a straw man because you're trying to make it like power plays and goals have the same relevance to the topic as fighting does when it doesn't. You denying it's a straw man just means you either don't know what a straw man is or are willingly ignoring that just for the sake of argument.

I'm doing no such thing. If you don't like fights fine by me but using " they go down in the playoffs" as a metric of artifice, well then lots of things qualify ( including hat tricks).

If a strawman was erected, there's mud under your boots.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm doing no such thing. If you don't like fights fine by me but using " they go down in the playoffs" as a metric of artifice, well then lots of things qualify ( including hat tricks).

If a strawman was erected, there's mud under your boots.

You can deny it all you want but that's exactly what you did and continue to do. That's not really a matter of opinion either. I've not said one word about my feelings towards fighting in this thread so that whole you don't like fighting thing doesn't really apply here.

 

[sandysan]

You can deny it all you want but that's exactly what you did and continue to do. That's not really a matter of opinion either. I've not said one word about my feelings towards fighting in this thread so that whole you don't like fighting thing doesn't really apply here.

Well that's just your opinion, man.

At least we have disposed of the fallacy that there are no fights in the playoffs.

How long to the " there are no fights in the olympics " canard

3.....2.......1......

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Well that's just your opinion, man.

At least we have disposed of the fallacy that there are no fights in the playoffs.

How long to the " there are no fights in the olympics " canard

3.....2.......1......

It's not really just an opinion but whatever. No fights in the playoffs is a fallacy due to exaggeration. Fewer fights is certainly a justifiable statement to make. Don't really care about the Olympics comparison. It's not really applicable.

 

[Smokey McCanucks]

The mutual decision to engage in a fight is always a complicated one, as Prust acknowledges. His article sheds valuable light on the thought process behind a hockey fight from those directly involved. Taking that into account, I think we can say that in the playoffs, when the stakes are higher, when every shift has such importance, the calculus behind engaging in a fight changes. If every shift is important, missing shifts while sitting in the box for five minutes has a greater impact, and you have to measure that against whatever the perceived potential gains from fighting are for both combatants. The thought process Prust describes where he's gonna fight a guy now even though it's not a good situation for him to be fighting, because it becomes a psychological chip he can cash in down the road, that doesn't apply in the playoffs, all bets are off, nobody's gonna do you any favours. The consequences of fighting or not fighting at the right or wrong time are far higher. In a sense, the playoffs already are a fight, and there's no need to pour more fuel on the fire.

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

To me, an awful lot of this boils down to Prust saying he needs to fight in order to protect his teammates from the type of thing he does to other teams.

Ya gotta go down the rat hole and act like a rat to rat out the rats.

Everyone is so much safer with Prust around, um-hmm.

I broke my friends jaw because I needed to get in a fight to protect the game from people running around and injuring players.

Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

Just so you know I'm not being a total homer, the J Moore hit on Weise was just as bad. But I do wonder if not for the Prust hit had it taken place.

J. Moore absolutely needs to write an article explaining how he was protecting the integrity of the game.

He defined what a "rat" is, in his piece. And he didn't go out there intending to injure. Sounds as though you haven't even read the entire article.

The purity of Prust's motives must not be called into question.

Thank God he stepped up and broke Stepan's jaw there with that dangerous hit. Otherwise someone could have gotten seriously hurt.

 

[Banana Sandwiches]

Like a hockey player's opinion on how the game of hockey is played actually matters...

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

I am on the fence about fighting. I like seeing players from my favorite team sticking up for teammates that get run, but in the end its 2 grown men fighting on ice, wearing ice skates. Not the best fighting surface, and more times than not hockey fights are nothing more than 2 grown men slipping around and tugging on jersey's.

I agree with Prust that fighting helps protect star players from getting run, but what Prust didn't discuss were the absurd fights that take place to simply "light a fire" for a team. IMO, that type of fighting is dumb. There are other ways that can light a fire for a team besides fighting. Scoring goals, finishing checks or making a goalie change come to mind.

I was pleased to read NHL players have a name for D-bag type players like Cooke and Marchand.

 

[Mynameismark*]

Man oh man how has Hockey acquired such a soft fanbase in these past few years? Clouded by a strict media trend towards anti fighting...and Bettmans insistence on selling the game and in effect changing the game the way it was always meant to be played. The Canadian way.

Prust is awesome, and guys like him are a jewel to the game.

 

[Mynameismark*]

The thought of the NHL eliminating fighting actually disgusts me.

Same.

It has been fine for decades and decades as is, but Bettman and co have tried so hard to sell the game to people who really dont care..casuals down south and such...that he's trying to change it and in effect neglects the true fans who have always been there and loved the game as it was meant to be played.

For shame.

 

[c-carp]

The thought of the NHL eliminating fighting actually disgusts me.

Me too man, I can't believe they have went this far with cutting it down

 

[c-carp]

Man oh man how has Hockey acquired such a soft fanbase in these past few years? Clouded by a strict media trend towards anti fighting...and Bettmans insistence on selling the game and in effect changing the game the way it was always meant to be played. The Canadian way.

Prust is awesome, and guys like him are a jewel to the game.

Great post agreed 100%

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

If it weren't for "casuals down south" would there be an NHL?

Fighting to stick up for a player who gets run is one thing. Fighting because your team is down 3-0, or to "have a go", is another.

 

[c-carp]

I wonder if there's more fighting in the preseason than the regular season.

Judging by Blues games no, there used to be but not now most pre season games are like watching grass grow

 

[c-carp]

Is there this much bickering over Brandon Prust. He is not a dirty player and steps up for his teammates against guys much bigger than him. There are many more dirty players than Brandon Prust, and hell actually answer the bell. Malkin, Cooke, Marchand, Burrows, Garbutt, Torres, Downie, etc.

All he is saying is that fighting has a place because it can swing momentum or does it's best to keep a guy honest. No one is afraid of sitting 2 games in an 82 game season, who cares. I'd rather sit 2 games than have my nose or jaw broken.

If you want soft hockey then start a petition for no contact at all...

And for anyone else calling him a pest or weasel who shouldn't be in the NHL. He's a third liner who PKs. I don't see the issue.

Great post agreed

 

[mandiblesofdoom]

He is not a dirty player and steps up for his teammates against guys much bigger than him.

Of course he isn't! He's a clean player who throws dirty hits. To stop all the dirty play. Anyone who can't grasp that is, like, I don't know ....

 

[Beau Knows]

Ignoring whether fighting is necessary in hockey for a second, does anyone else find like 95% of the fights to be incredibly boring? I usually just look at my phone. You get the occasional non-scripted fight between a couple of stars that can be interesting. But the majority of fights in hockey just put me to sleep.

 

[Mynameismark*]

If it weren't for "casuals down south" would there be an NHL?

Fighting to stick up for a player who gets run is one thing. Fighting because your team is down 3-0, or to "have a go", is another.

The casuals down south add nothing of value. Every now and then they tune in, maybe buy a hot dog at a game if they go.

 

[Sleepy]

The casuals down south add nothing of value. Every now and then they tune in, maybe buy a hot dog at a game if they go.

There was good discussion on fighting in this thread for a while. I think we're now past that.