The Players' Tribune: Why We Fight by Brandon Prust

[Joe Sakic]

I loved this and agree completely with everything Prust had to say.

Fighting most certainly does have it's place in this game.

 

[Crede777]

You mean hits like Prust's on Stepan?

Sure. Not sure if that's supposed to refute anything? I never stated that Prust was innocent of dangerous hits...

 

[kingpest19]

I thought Neal was supposed to be too scared of fighting to do something like that in the first place.

Do we need something more archaic to settle disputes? How about dueling with pistols????

Neal does crap like that because he knows as a star player he won't have to answer the bell. If gets in a scrum he had guys like Engelland coming in to answer for him

 

[Midnight Judges]

Hits not to the head cause way more concussions per year than fighting.

Indeed, but hits - unlike fighting - actually have something to do with the game of hockey.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Indeed, but hits - unlike fighting - actually have something to do with the game of hockey.

Why doesn't woman's hockey, nor grassroots hockey have hitting then?

EDIT: So brain injuries are okay! As long as it kind of has something to do with hockey People need to give up the "fighting should be out of the game for player safety" argument and just come clean and say they don't like it.

 

[Off Sides]

or he tries to make a big hit, that ends up a little late. tomato, tomahto.

you havent offered any proof that prust was skulking in the weeds waiting for his opportunity to take a full of completely illegal run at a ranger ( any ranger) with the hopes of breaking his jaw.

lots of squeaky clean guys end up delivering bad hits, including prust.

On my first shift, I saw a blue jersey making a pass at the blue line and I came across him and tried to finish my check hard. He didn’t see me coming. He went down and stayed down. I knew it was a late hit.

Prust in his own words provides the proof. He does not say I don't think he saw me coming, He says he did not see him coming.

Then he does not say the hit was maybe a little late but at the time I was just trying to finish my check, he says he knew it was a late hit.

When you add in the video it's pretty obvious what his intentions were. He came from nearly the whole width of the ice, he had plenty of time to make his decision.

When everything is in context, including the Emelin trip that led to the Price injury, his words after, calling it "accidentally on purpose", and him stating he could not find a fight, so he was going to do something to try to make a difference there is one logical conclusion and it's not that this was just a hit gone bad.

More for his own words for context sake

How am I going to run him without getting a penalty? How am I going to get under his skin? Am I gonna have to go punch him in the head or something?

Sounds like maybe in his head he was not innocently trying to just make a legal hard hit, he uses the words "run" "without getting a penalty"

That to you sounds like a player looking to make a legal play?

I was hoping that we’d earned enough respect with one another that he understood I wasn’t trying to injure him. He couldn’t eat solid food for a month

How does one equal the other? Like I have said when Prust was with the Rangers I do not think he did anything like this, he was a pretty standup by the "code" player that may have garnered him some respect but this particular incident sticks out and just him making a lame and contradictory attempt to justify it does nothing for me.

The thing is, you are accusing me and others of this whole thing being about not wanting fighting to be in the league, at least in my case it's not that, there are two separate issues at hand here. It's the senseless injuries that can be prevented that I do not want in the league. I fully concur with this idea that fighting has a place in the game, where my opinion differs is that if players want to fight, fine, but if a player can not find the fight the player should not all of a sudden go out and make what he admits is a late blind side hit.

In fact I'd like to see the instigator penalty refined, in this particular case and in many many others the refs miss blatant calls, so I agree the NHL does a poor job of policing the game, however what Prust did was not policing the game, he was not counteracting a "rat", he was trying to make a difference in a series and since he was not able to find a fight he was looking for ways illegally to change up the series. If you think that should be part of hockey, I honestly give up here, which I do anyway because you don't want to separate the two things, fighting in general versus the Stepan hit.

Sure, if it’s a bad enough hit the league will suspend a guy for a few games, but what does that matter to a fourth liner, especially in the playoffs if you take out one of their stars? It can turn an entire series.

This is what the league needs to focus on, no amount of player policing can change that, only competent officiating that has real game consequences and real supplemental punishment can.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

No, I simply appreciate the perspective of a person who, you know, plays the game were discussing. It's undeniably a biased perspective, but it's not meaningless. You may scoff, but that's an ignorant approach.

You appreciate someone contradicting themselves in order to make a point?

 

[waffledave]

I respect guys who do the job 100%. Its a tough job. I just think we would be better off without it.

And thats not a knock on Prust. If the NHL took out fighting he would still be in the league. Has enough skill, and size to stay

Prust is small for a fighter and pretty average-sized overall. Not sure he'd last in the league without his fighting skills.

 

[Callista Rhian]

Prust in his own words provides the proof. He does not say I don't think he saw me coming, He says he did not see him coming.

Then he does not say the hit was maybe a little late but at the time I was just trying to finish my check, he says he knew it was a late hit.

When you add in the video it's pretty obvious what his intentions were. He came from nearly the whole width of the ice, he had plenty of time to make his decision.

When everything is in context, including the Emelin trip that led to the Price injury, his words after, calling it "accidentally on purpose", and him stating he could not find a fight, so he was going to do something to try to make a difference there is one logical conclusion and it's not that this was just a hit gone bad.

More for his own words for context sake


Sounds like maybe in his head he was not innocently trying to just make a legal hard hit, he uses the words "run" "without getting a penalty"

That to you sounds like a player looking to make a legal play?



How does one equal the other? Like I have said when Prust was with the Rangers I do not think he did anything like this, he was a pretty standup by the "code" player that may have garnered him some respect but this particular incident sticks out and just him making a lame and contradictory attempt to justify it does nothing for me.

The thing is, you are accusing me and others of this whole thing being about not wanting fighting to be in the league, at least in my case it's not that, there are two seperae issues at hand here. It's the senseless injuries that can be prevented that I do not want in the league. I fully concur with this idea that fighting has a place in the game, where my opinion differs is that if players want to fight, fine, but if a player can not find the fight the player should not all of a sudden go out and make what he admits is a late blind side hit.

In fact I'd like to see the instigator penalty refined, in this particular case and in many many others the refs miss blatant calls, so I agree the NHL does a poor job of policing the game, however what Prust did was not policing the game, he was not counteracting a "rat", he was trying to make a difference in a series and since he was not able to find a fight he was looking for ways illegally to change up the series. If you think that should be part of hockey, I honestly give up here, which I do anyway because you don't want to separate the two things, fighting in general versus the Stepan hit.


This is what the league needs to focus on, no amount of player policing can change that, only competent officiating that has real game consequences and real supplemental punishment can.

Agree with everything.

Do I like fighting? No. Do I accept that it's probably never going to go away? Yes.

What I do NOT accept are dirty hits and the like. Prust running Stepan, Rinaldo's late boarding on Letang, Voracek jumping Scuderi after a clean check (this was the first "fight" in Scuderi's decade-long NHL career - the last time he fought was 2004 in the AHL). Slew-footing, boarding, etc should not be allowed. These things are dangerous and can have serious consequences.

I, for one, do not want to read the news one day only to see that some of the players I loved to watch have been diagnosed with chronic traumatic encephalopathy due to bad hits they took in their careers.

Can clean hits result in injuries? Yes. But by outlawing dangerous, dirty plays, those injuries can be cut down.

 

[sandysan]

Prust in his own words provides the proof. He does not say I don't think he saw me coming, He says he did not see him coming.

Then he does not say the hit was maybe a little late but at the time I was just trying to finish my check, he says he knew it was a late hit.

When you add in the video it's pretty obvious what his intentions were. He came from nearly the whole width of the ice, he had plenty of time to make his decision.

.

Guys are responsible for their own situational awareness, the idea is that if you can catch a guy with his head down that you should lay up and not hit the guy ISNT the expected action and I hope it never will be.

His job is to hit someone and hit someone hard, if a guy who has the puck doesnt see him coming I WANT my guy to hit him so hard that his fillings shake loose.

And there is a BIG difference between

I wanted to hit him hard, I did and knew it was late AND

I wanted to hit him hard AND LATE and I did

Everything he said was that he was looking to throw a BIG HIT ( and I'm glad you have droppedthe canard that he was actively looking to take out a specific ranger), saw a guy who he didnt recognize, hit him and then knew it was late.

that's wanting to make a big hit, that went south which is NOT the same as " I'm going to go out there and intentionally throw a completely illegal hit on their talent in orderto get them the fight me"

 

[pooleboy]

this is true. watching the leafs with not a single tough guy in the lineup and how much they get run/pushed over/ shot at (lol Phaneuf) from before when they had 2-3 was putrid. The league is just scared of these idiots sueing them after... which is Pejorative Slured imo

 

[CanadienShark]

You appreciate someone contradicting themselves in order to make a point?

Care to point out the logical contradiction? Perhaps I missed it, but he seemed to explain his rationale behind it, whether you agree with or not. Just because you disagree, doesn't mean he's contradicting himself.

 

[Off Sides]

Guys are responsible for their own situational awareness, the idea is that if you can catch a guy with his head down that you should lay up and not hit the guy ISNT the expected action and I hope it never will be.

His job is to hit someone and hit someone hard, if a guy who has the puck doesnt see him coming I WANT my guy to hit him so hard that his fillings shake loose.

And there is a BIG difference between

I wanted to hit him hard, I did and knew it was late AND

I wanted to hit him hard AND LATE and I did

Everything he said was that he was looking to throw a BIG HIT ( and I'm glad you have droppedthe canard that he was actively looking to take out a specific ranger), saw a guy who he didnt recognize, hit him and then knew it was late.

that's wanting to make a big hit, that went south which is NOT the same as " I'm going to go out there and intentionally throw a completely illegal hit on their talent in orderto get them the fight me"

Hit gone wrong?

Stop it already, he did everything in his power to make sure the hit went wrong.

Skated from other side of the ice at full speed? Check
Saw the player did not see him? Check
Hit him up high? Check
Hit him after the pass was far gone? Check

That is not a hit gone wrong.

 

[supsens]

"Players like me keep the game honest. Sometimes you just gotta throw a late hit and break a guy's jaw to keep the game from getting too violent!"



It's quite sad because the pro-fighting guys truly believe in the stuff they say. They don't realize how nonsensical it is, though. It'll be tough to ever abolish it from the game for that reason. It's a wholly irrational attachment to a particular aspect of the game. It's tough to ever bargain or reason with irrationality. Logic and sense are not friendly when it comes to that.


EDIT: Yes, I'll be waiting for the "Your team employs Zac Rinaldo!" or "LOL coming from a Flyers fan" responses to my post which wholly ignore the substantive discussion. Hopefully this preemptively quashes that.

Umm I think you all missed the fact that he had 0 fear of anyone doing anything to him so he ran around on the ice like a dick smashing people, ifff he was scared someone would punch his face I doubt it happens

 

[DuckedUpOnQuack]

Umm I think you all missed the fact that he had 0 fear of anyone doing anything to him so he ran around on the ice like a dick smashing people, ifff he was scared someone would punch his face I doubt it happens

So what's the difference then between Prust and a 'rat'? He claims that without fighters rats would have 0 fear and run around smashing people (exactly what he did).

The only thing that bothers me about the article is he tries to portray himself as some type of hero protecting his teammates then does a 180 and admits to throwing a cheapshot.

I have no problem with fighters and I think fighting is necessary, but I think he did a really bad job of articulating why fighters are needed. After reading the article the impression comes off that without guys like Prust there would be less cheapshots not more.

 

[Pilky01]

"fighting is good actually"

- a guy who only makes a living because he fights

This.

That article is nonsense. But I wouldn't expect anything else from someone who knows they can't cut it actually playing hockey.

 

[sandysan]

Hit gone wrong?

Stop it already, he did everything in his power to make sure the hit went wrong.

Skated from other side of the ice at full speed? Check
Saw the player did not see him? Check
Hit him up high? Check
Hit him after the pass was far gone? Check

That is not a hit gone wrong.

he hits him a half second earlier, that's a fine fine hit. and from the list for a hard hit

1) Expected
2) Desired
3) iffy
4) finishing his check

but sure keep ascribing motivations to his acts when he comes out and refutes them. If he intended to deliver an illegal hit in order to start a fight, I'm sure that Prust ( even as a stupid hockey player) could have come out and said that. but he didnt. he said ALL along that he wanted to hit someone hard, he didnt care who to start some chaos to tip their hand.

 

[TheSituation]

he hits him a half second earlier, that's a fine fine hit. and from the list for a hard hit

1) Expected
2) Desired
3) iffy
4) finishing his check

but sure keep ascribing motivations to his acts when he comes out and refutes them. If he intended to deliver an illegal hit in order to start a fight, I'm sure that Prust ( even as a stupid hockey player) could have come out and said that. but he didnt. he said ALL along that he wanted to hit someone hard, he didnt care who to start some chaos to tip their hand.

No hockey player is going to say that they intentionally tried to hurt someone with a dirty, especially an active one.

 

[Off Sides]

I love the iffy one, he broke the guys jaw but it's iffy that he hit him high.

The other excuses are almost as poor but that one wins.

 

[sandysan]

So what's the difference then between Prust and a 'rat'? He claims that without fighters rats would have 0 fear and run around smashing people (exactly what he did).

The only thing that bothers me about the article is he tries to portray himself as some type of hero protecting his teammates then does a 180 and admits to throwing a cheapshot.

I have no problem with fighters and I think fighting is necessary, but I think he did a really bad job of articulating why fighters are needed. After reading the article the impression comes off that without guys like Prust there would be less cheapshots not more.

if you read his piece, you wouldnt have to ask what the difference is.

rats = intentionally target talent
prust = a guy who will hit anyone and anyone hard, sometimes talent sometimes
not.

and he admitted it was late, he never admitted to throwing a cheap shot ( which is an illegal check by design). Believe it or not sometimes perfectly legal hard checks go south. He's been in the league how long ? how many times do you see brandon prust taking runs at talent ? in a scrum how often to do see prust face washing or glove fighting talent guys wearing jaw protection ? How often do you see him checking with his knees or willingly cross checking talent in the face ? this isn't james neal extending his leg to knee a player on the ice. how often does prust run goalies ?

And if the rangers wanted to take exception for the hit, prust answers the bell, something none of the guys listed above did or will do. I'm sure prust has no problem tuning derek dorsett again.

 

[Off Sides]

Just so you know I'm not being a total homer, the J Moore hit on Weise was just as bad. But I do wonder if not for the Prust hit had it taken place.

 

[sandysan]

Just so you know I'm not being a total homer, the J Moore hit on Weise was just as bad. But I do wonder if not for the Prust hit had it taken place.

No hockey player is going to say that they intentionally tried to hurt someone with a dirty, especially an active one.

and prust has such a looong history of this type of thing. I remember when that no good rat thomas fleischman ran gorges in the numbers. What a rat, he's that rattiest of rats that ever ratted in the NHL.

or it was a bad choice to make that hit at speed. But flash gets a pass because he doesnt drop the gloves and Prust is depicted as evil incarnate. Because in no way should we ever, ever condone a fouth line guy actually helping his team by playing physical ? Why do we need that ? can't we call up dumont and revay and thomas and verne troyer to marvel in their dangly dangles ?

Yeah that makes a TON of sense.

 

[Off Sides]

Once again I am not saying Prust is evil or whatever, I am saying he is talking about how his fighting presence help curtail injuries, then he goes on to say he could not find a fight, then he goes on to say how he leveled a player because of it.

I add in J Moore because I am a Ranger fan and I view his hit as just as bad. I think his intentions were clear he was going to hit a guy high hard and that is what happened, just as that is what I think was what Prust was thinking, something to the effect of, I don't care what happens here, I don't care if I get a penalty or suspension, I'm frustrated with how this series is going, I'm confused and angry by the Price injury, so I'm going to make a super dangerous hit and let the cards fall where they may.

Given his reasoning about how fighting curtails injury by taking care of the rats that would cause more injuries without fighting, it seem very odd to me he would go about making the play he did, the one where the most likely outcome would be an injury.

I think he knew very well who he was hitting, I think he knew it was dangerous and would be deemed illegal and it may even require supplement discipline, and he did it anyway because he knows that he could have changed the series, as he said is possible.

I saw you mentioned Chris Neil here and there, Rangers played him in a series and you know what, I came away with respect for the guy, he played hard, he was on the edge here and there, and in one particular case he crushed Brain Boyle with a illegal but much more borderline hit but in the realm of things it made sense for him to make that play. That play came out, in my view, from the guy competing, he was being a factor in that series, he did not need to go all I'm totally going to injure someone to change a series.

Prust, I have said multiple times, I am not trying to demonize what he did or what he is writing about here, I would have found it much more refreshing had he just said something to the effect of, I made a bad dangerous play that fell outside of the code and that is unlike me, instead of the window dressing he is putting on it.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Care to point out the logical contradiction? Perhaps I missed it, but he seemed to explain his rationale behind it, whether you agree with or not. Just because you disagree, doesn't mean he's contradicting himself.

He says people like him are required to deal with rats

Then he proceeds to willingly injure a player

You need me to protect you against people like me

How about we just get rid of you and not worry about headshots?

 

[CanadienShark]

He says people like him are required to deal with rats

Then he proceeds to willingly injure a player

You need me to protect you against people like me

How about we just get rid of you and not worry about headshots?

He defined what a "rat" is, in his piece. And he didn't go out there intending to injure. Sounds as though you haven't even read the entire article.