Why was Wayne Gretzky such a bad coach?

[Fish on The Sand]

I've heard it said that he wasn't effective because no one else could see the game the way he saw it.

I guess it's a theory. I don't know, though. I had no interest in the Coyotes... ever, really.

Those who can't do, teach.

Gretzky very easily could do.

Also, he had no coaching experience.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Almost every star player ends up being a bad/below average coach.

Toe blake, Jacques Lemaire, Maybe Robinson are some of the only star players to be good coaches. I can't think of any others.

 

[Spargon]

Because everything came naturally to him. You can't explain something you do instinctively. After he retires I bet McDavid would be a crap coach for the same reason. high skill guys end up as GM's or higher. The coaches are the 3rd and 4th line grinders who had to know all the nuances of the game and the hard work ethic to get there because they didn't have that natural gift. It's a lot easier for those guys to pass on that knowledge.

 

[FDBluth]

most great coaches were fringe NHLrs, or didnt even quite make it.

Id say that those guys would likely largely be star centers as kids, 2nd liners as juniors, and role players in the league they got to. They would have run the gamut, able to relate to any player.

Superstars only ever do superstar things. And they cant relate to what normal people struggle with.

Gretzky isnt the only example of a superstar player who didnt make it as a coach

in fact.... i cant think of one.

Zinedine Zidane (not hockey though)

 

[hangman005]

Because everything came naturally to him. You can't explain something you do instinctively. After he retires I bet McDavid would be a crap coach for the same reason. high skill guys end up as GM's or higher. The coaches are the 3rd and 4th line grinders who had to know all the nuances of the game and the hard work ethic to get there because they didn't have that natural gift. It's a lot easier for those guys to pass on that knowledge.

Pretty much, I wouldnt be surprised if McNabb got into coaching when he retires as a player. We have Theodore, Pietrangelo, Hannafin. but when a new guy gets called up they always get paired with McNabb and he mentors them through the game.

 

[Strangle]

I always thought of Gretzky as a coach telling his players “just put the puck into the net. That’s what worked for me. Get open, get a good look and shoot it into the net, past the goalie. See? Watch, just like this. Now it’s your turn, there ya go.” *jesus Christ why isn’t this working?*

In the penalty kill “just strip the puck from the d-man at the blue line or the winger on the wall and skate straight down the ice for a breakaway. That’s the best thing to do on the penalty kill”. *shit, why can’t these guys just make the simple play?*

“hey you guys, you forgot to shoot the puck in the net. Remember? Passed the goalie? Don’t shoot it AT the goalie, shoot it PASSED him. Easy peasy, come on guys FOCUS!”

 

[Bounces R Way]

Far from the only guy to fail to make the Arizona Coyotes good.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Almost every star player ends up being a bad/below average coach.

Toe blake, Jacques Lemaire, Maybe Robinson are some of the only star players to be good coaches. I can't think of any others.

Early hockey is littered with them.

Lester Patrick. Art Ross. Jack Adams. Dick Irvin.

Could even include Eddie Shore, though it was at the AHL level.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Probably many reasons, but I think that never serving the appropriate apprenticeship was a big one.

Brind"amour was an assistant for a long time. Most successful NHL head coaches whether they played at a top level or not, went up the ladder-some very long ladders. Bednar was an assistant coach in the ECHL for something like 6 years.

There's a lot to being a head coach which takes time to learn. Having your first coaching job being NHL head coach doesn't do the team or the novice head coach any favors.

 

[Dolemite]

Because he had zero training, his front office (remember he was President of the Coyotes at the time when he made himself coach) were his friends and not the best talent he could acquire.

He hired a goaltending coach in Grant Fuhr who spent more time on the golf course than with the team.

Players had no clue what his strategy was.

He signed players like Georges Laraque to a NTC.

Just a few examples.

 

[LPHabsFan]

In order to be a good educator, because that's what a coach is, you need to be able to see everything. You need to be able to see the players as they are and as they could be. You need to be able to see the game from the perspective of both the best and the worst player. Then you need to be able to express it in such a way that you can get the player who only sees it one way, and walk them through the necessary steps to see it in many other ways. That goes for both the weakest and strongest.

In general though, Gretzky played a version of the game that didn't exist when he coached, so to some degree, he was learning about recognizing the systems at the same time as his players.

There are also so many other elements to being a coach other than what's happening on the ice that he had no experience with.

You add it all up and you get catastrophe.

 

[ViD]

other than Rod, which superstar players were great coaches as well ?

Most great coaches were fringe to mid players

 

[Dolemite]

other than Rod, which superstar players were great coaches as well ?

Most great coaches were fringe to mid players

Patrick Roy at multiple levels.

 

[jigglysquishy]

other than Rod, which superstar players were great coaches as well ?

Most great coaches were fringe to mid players

Toe Blake was a HHOFer as a player.

Then arguably had a stronger run as a coach.

 

[Orfieus]

2005 38 W 39 L OTL 5
2006 31W 46 L OTL 5
2007 38W 37 L OTL 7
2008 36W 39L OTL 7

Hardly ever getting above .500.

Did he always have terrible players?

Could he not manage the room?

Why did this become such a difficult thing for him?

Same reason why he was a terrible judge of skill as well. I just think he's able to understand hockey on a completely different level that he doesn't understand that regular people just doesn't process the same information as quickly as he does

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

2005 38 W 39 L OTL 5
2006 31W 46 L OTL 5
2007 38W 37 L OTL 7
2008 36W 39L OTL 7

Hardly ever getting above .500.

Did he always have terrible players?

Could he not manage the room?

Why did this become such a difficult thing for him?

because he can't coach the team on how to play the game because he played at a level nobody has ever even come close to reaching.

nobody can play up to his standard

 

[NotCommitted]

Becoming the HC for Coyotes was his first coaching job AFAIK? (edit: and last one as well, which probably tells you all about how much he really wanted to have a career at coaching)

I think a big reason why lesser players become better coaches is they don't get gifted a HC job at the top level because they were a career 3rd liner or played 55 games in the NHL but didn't quite make it.

Olli Jokinen seems to be doing fairly well as a head coach and he was borderline NHL star I guess, but he started at 2nd best level of Finnish hockey and even before that he had actually made the decision to become a coach and was working at making a career of it, he didn't just get a phone call and go "sure, I've never even thought about it but I'll become a head coach"

 

[potatowejj]

Across the four major sports, the best players I can think of who are / were good coaches are

Larry Bird
Don Mattingly
Doc Rivers
Rick Tocchet
Larry Robinson

Toe Blake

 

[Grifter3511]

All the best former player coaches were grinders/lower skilled players. As a coach you need to know systems and how to implement them and how to change things when it's not going right. These are all things that 3rd and 4th liners have to pay particular attention to if they want to last in the NHL. Superstars, and in particular the GOAT, can just go out there and do whatever they want (hyperbole here) and be successful. How do they then convey that to the 3rd and 4th liners that they end up coaching?

 

[Stive Morgan]

Imagine trying to keep your spot in the NHL, f***ing up, getting back to the bench and Greztky taps your shoulder. "I would have just stripped him of the puck and went wide with speed and drive the net".

f*** Wayne why didn't I think about doing that. Oh right I suck ass now tell me how a mortal does it

I still love Don Cherry in the Coach's Corner after Game 7 of the Bruins/Leafs in 2013

"ALL YOU GOTTA DO IS MOVE CHARA OUTTA THE WAY!"

Yeah all you have to do is move the biggest player in NHL history no big deal

 

[Coffee]

Lol

This thread has legs!

Slowing down a bit but still active

 

[ijuka]

Great players rarely make good coaches because they don't really understand how it's like not being so talented at the game.

 

[Chukcha]

at least Fedorov and Larionov turned into very good coaches. It would be interesting to see them in the NHL.

 

[Quinning]

Walter should have been a coach.

Wayne is an embarrassment.

 

[Grifter3511]

at least Fedorov and Larionov turned into very good coaches. It would be interesting to see them in the NHL.

Great two way players who paid attention to details. Makes sense. Could see Bergeron making a good coach for similar reasons.